What if homosexuality was a choice?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by solvs, Jan 21, 2006.

  1. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #1
    So, I've been thinking (and please don't ruin my thread like you did iGary's)... what if being gay was a choice?

    Personally, I don't believe it is, but let's go with the premise here. Homosexuality is a choice. So? Aren't we living in a free society where adults can make choices like that? And what if it is a sin against (the Christian) God? Again, so? Putting aside the other things that are equal, or even greater, sins listed in certain parts of the Bible such as Leviticus, since when do we base our laws on religion? I mean, just because morality and ethics often collide, that doesn't mean everything some people happen to believe has to become law. Especially considering how many don't. Some religions believe that pork, or suger, or caffeine, or even electricity is bad. Does that mean if a majority of Americans (read: American voters) were Amish they would get to tell the rest of us we couldn't use toasters or cars? I know I wouldn't like that.

    So then if you don't like homosexuality, what's so bad about just not being gay yourself? Why tell other people they can't be? Why is it when they say they want to love someone of the same sex, you get to tell them they can't because you believe it's wrong? I doubt we'll get anywhere here, but I'd really like to know why people think they get to tell someone else how to live based on what they believe?
     
  2. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #2
    Exactly.

    I've never understood the 'choice' argument, apart from its obvious absurdity. Even if it was a choice, then why the hell not?

    There are plenty of worse choices to make in this world.

    Edit: And don't diss the Quakers. :D
     
  3. janey macrumors 603

    janey

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    #3
    ...because some people get a kick out of telling others what to believe (because the idea that not everyone shares the same beliefs is abhorrent).
    and because others truly believe that homosexuality is just wrong (for what reason, i'll never know), not as an opinion, but as [twisted] fact. then again, the same people do change their minds a little when it's their beloved child, or a sibling or someone they care about who comes out. And then sometimes you get the nutcases that go insane and start disowning their kid for being gay, or abuse them, or throw them out of the house and never talk to them again.

    re: american voters - It's quite obvious some Americans think the rest of America needs to stop bashing on the GLBT community. Otherwise, there would be no attempt to fight for gay rights at all (a la Gavin Newsom, and all those attempts to secure civil unions and marriages for same-sex couples).

    The whole thing's just whacked. Many men who are homophobic have no qualms about anything when it comes to two attractive females who are partners, nobody really cares when it's the likes of Elton John or another gay/bisexual/lesbian/transgender celebrity getting married, or coming out. But they find out the two average men next door are partners, and they freak out.

    And this is on the whole assumption that it's all about the sex. Not many successful relationships are based solely on the act of sexual intercourse, so why does it matter what gender the two people are?


    Sheesh. </rant>
     
  4. rdowns Suspended

    rdowns

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    #4
    I'm sure this will go the way of iGary's thread.

    Why can't people just worry about how they want to live their lives and let others live theirs?
     
  5. Deepdale macrumors 68000

    Deepdale

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    #5
    That could be done with a reasonable effort, but then it would take away part of the pleasure of them living their lives. The art of dictating to others and illustrating how and why they went wrong provides both the adrenaline rush and dubious claim to a higher moral ground that some need.
     
  6. solvs thread starter macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #6
    Pretty much my point. I don't know, and I don't get it. I'm not gay myself, but I don't really honestly care if someone else is. And I certainly would never tell them they couldn't get married, any more than I would try to tell someone that their religion is wrong (despite my comment on the quakers). Isn't that how it's supposed to work here?

    I guess some people just don't really get the correlation.
     
  7. greatdevourer macrumors 68000

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    #7
    Since the beginning of law and order. Yes, now, people have ideas of what is right and wrong without religion, but they got it from their parents and the rest of society, which got it from the society before, etc, etc, which was based on a religion of sorts.
     
  8. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #8
    The world would be a much better place without zealous young men running around claiming to speak for God. And believe me, I'm not only a Christian-basher although the madrassas of the mid-west seem equally capable of turning out cannon-fodder.
     
  9. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #9
    Unless you're including philosophy as "a religion of sorts" you're wrong.
     
  10. Lau Guest

    #10
    But...it's a thread in the Political forum, and...everyone's said really sensible things, and I agree with them! ;)

    Well said Solvs. Absolutely.
     
  11. iGary Guest

    iGary

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  12. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #12
    Roman and Greek laws weren't based on religion as much as they were on property rights. It's true that religion has influenced law making but to claim that religion is the basis of law making just goes too far.

    It's true that some societies have instituted religious based law, Sharia comes to mind but those societies are the exception, not the rule.
     
  13. aquajet macrumors 68020

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  14. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #14

    With that statement i stopped read because your wrong, I go to a Quaker school, and we are far from "anti tech" we use toasters, cars ,infact we even start use technology before others do. An Example is that we have 50 iPods for Foreign Language, we have a full 3 computer labs, a full music lab(a computer lab but it's only used for music class.) 3 laptop Lab that move to different class and at least 1 computer in each classroom(many have more). Please next time know your facts before you a post such a bold and incorrect statment, perhaps then i would be able to comment about what your post was really about.
     
  15. rdowns Suspended

    rdowns

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    #15
    Your school should be teaching you to read something in its entirety before commenting about it. Not to mention proper English.

    The OP wasn't bashing Quakers (I think he meant Amish), just using different people as an example.
     
  16. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #16
    Apparently the English language isn't on the curriculum, though. :p :D ;)

    I think he meant Amish. ;)
     
  17. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #17
    Ya, i hoped he had made a mistake and my blind angry made me type such bad enlgish:p

    (They have to buy it my story is flawless!)
     
  18. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #18
    Excellent letter BTW. You're my hero for the week.

    Also noticed Erlich proposed something like a 12% increase in state spending while at the same time opposing a minimum-wage increase as fiscally irresponsible last week. Hell of a show you have going on there. ;)
     
  19. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #19
    I dunno. I've always thought that the ones who are most anti-gay are the ones who are afraid of their own sexuality.
     
  20. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #20
    bingo. and one of the straightest, most womanizing guys i know -- who is very secure in his sexuality -- has two gay men as roommates.
     
  21. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

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    #21
    ill third this opinion.

    i have no problem with gay guys. plenty have been my friends and are my friends. its just not for me. its the people who are afraid of the unknown that are anti gay.
     
  22. neocell macrumors 65816

    neocell

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    #22
    Maybe I'm missing something here, but of course it's a choice. Everything in life is a choice.

    "The only thing you have to do is die, everything else is your decision."

    I guess we can debate the whole born a homosexual, vs raised a homosexual, where I think both sides (Nature vs Nurture) play a role but in the end it's a decision. But beyond that who the hell cares if you choose to live a homosexual life. You're not hurting anyone, not bring the world down, just trying to find what's right for you, and how the hell can some damn politician tell you that you're wrong because he/she doesn't agree with your view. Be open minded, conservatives can bite my ass. Let people live in peace
     
  23. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #23
    And I voted for the toolbox. He was good the first three years...and now.....
     
  24. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #24
    assuming you're a straight male, do you believe you can just suddenly decide to start having sex with and being attracted to men?
     
  25. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

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    #25
    you got that right.

    there was a study that divided males into 2 groups( homophobic and non-homophobic) based upon psych quizes. the men were individually shown gay erotic videos and their reactions were recorded by a wire around their penis..an engorgometer or something.

    anyway, the homophobic group had the largest( ahem...) reaction to the videos of either group. the homophobes were also verbally quized later and without fail each member stated that they had not been aroused by the videos. denial...

    another example of this behavior is Spokane's mayor who was caught trolling gay chatrooms and offering employment for sexual favors while doing this:

    In more than 20 years in the Legislature, West had initiated legislation to outlaw sexual contact between consenting teenagers; supported a bill that would have barred gays and lesbians from working for schools, day care centers and some state agencies; voted to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman; and, as Senate majority leader, allowed a bill that would ban discrimination against gays and lesbians to die in committee without a hearing.
     

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