What the hell is wrong with Phoenix?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by calyxman, May 28, 2005.

  1. calyxman macrumors 6502a

    calyxman

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    #1
    I hate to rant about sports, but I'm just getting fed up with the way Phoenix has been playing in the western conference finals. And it's not because of the Spurs. At least Seattle was able to pick up two games against San Antonio, and Denver managed to get one on the Spurs' home court.

    Here we are in game 3, in the 4th quarter and as of right now the suns are down double digits. WTF?

    It seems like Phoenix is good at squandering great opportunities for the franchinse. They almost got knocked in the first round of the playoffs in 1993. They lose to Chicago in the finals. They get surprised by Houston after taking a 3-1 lead in the west semi finals in 1994. And it happens again with Houston in 1995, again Phoenix had a 3-1 edge.

    Now the Suns are getting their a$$es royally kicked by the Spurs and it's almost like they don't give a crap. At least Barkley would show some emotion.

    I know it seems premature because anything can happen, but I'm just upset at the way things are turning out. Coach of the year, Mike D'Antoni. MVP? Steve Nash. Exec of the year? Colangelo. Best record this past season? Phoenix. Championship??????.....

    Odds are very low right now... :(
     
  2. calyxman thread starter macrumors 6502a

    calyxman

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    #2
    Well it's official now, Spurs now lead the series 3-0. Wow, is Phoenix even playing? :rolleyes:
     
  3. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #3
    As an overly optimistic Canadian, I believe in the power of Steve. :)
     
  4. thecrunge macrumors member

    thecrunge

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    #4
    I was watching the game during the first and some of the second quarter. Frankly, I think there giving it all they have, they are simply being outplayed by a better team overall (Defense and Offense). The Suns just don't seem to match up well against San Antonio. Plus, all those turn overs in the first half really killed there chances of staying in the game.
     
  5. calyxman thread starter macrumors 6502a

    calyxman

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    #5
    Yeah, but Steve's performance wasn't that great tonight. I watched the play-by-plays online and it seem like the offense was handling the ball in sloppy fashion. One turnover after another, steal after steal.

    How can two teams like Seattle and Denver pick up a game or two against the Spurs, but the winningest team Phoenix drop three in a row?

    No team has come back from being down 3-0. If Phoenix loses again on Monday, I think there's gotta be some questions raised. Every loyal Phoenix fan remembers how Paul Westphal was fired after the 1995 season after Phoenix lost in the semi-finals against Houston the second time in a row. Westphal at least had some fire in his spirit to guide his team; remember the Westphal Guarantee of 1993? Where's D'Antoni's passion?

    I guess I may have to skip out on watching the finals this year. :(
     
  6. furryrabidbunny macrumors 6502

    furryrabidbunny

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    #6
    I was at a concert tonight so I didnt' catch the game but this is why the Suns are losing... the Spurs are a better team, period. The Suns are a horrible team. I grew up in chicago during the Jordan era, and I saw good basketball day to day. The Phoenix Suns don't play good basketball... they play quick lets score as much as we can Basketball. The Suns have no defensive presence, period. Amare is a good player, but he right now is no match for Duncan, he doesn't have the size or the experience. Richardson is overpayed and overhyped. Granted he can knock down a few threes, but he should attack the basket more... he is quick and strong and settling for jumpers (i did catch the first quarter of game three and he was driving to the basket and drawing fouls, but I imagne he started going for three balls later on). Marion never showed up this series (he is the most overhyped on the team... he is too lean for his size and he has the oddest jump shot i have ever seen, watch him shoot game four if he ever gets the ball). Joe Johnson was the last hope for the team, and with that said, the Suns had no hope. In the first quarter he shot about a ten foot jumper, and it was an airball. He probably wont be able to play defense well the rest of the series (four games) he is extremely rusty (17 day rest i think?) and has plastic on his face. He can't handle parker or the Spurs south america wonder. And Nash is no MVP this series. He is visibly tired and at moments looks very confused at the situation on the court. This series fell apart on the Suns. They need to trade Marion and Richardson and pull in either a true small forward or center. O yeah, that's another reason they wont win... they are too small! Amare playign center against Mohammed! marion playing pf against duncan! a 6'6ish (barely) Richardson at small forward! The NBA is a game of skills and size, and the Suns are lacking in Both. They should trade their whole starting cast minus Amare Johnson and gain some depth. Yes, I do include Nash. He is showing his age people. He has been in the league since 95! He is a pointguard that likes to run. He wont last much longer at his current skill level. If the Suns were smart they would trade for Ben Gordan. Good defense and a hell of a forth quarter player (the suns lack five of those).
     
  7. Inspector Lee macrumors 6502a

    Inspector Lee

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    #7
    If you can't play "D" you can't hoist the hardware. And I don't think this is something they can fix overnight via either personnel or coaching changes. A team can score all they want but if they can't batten down the hatches and win ugly, they've got no chance. Look at the Nuggest back in '83 - they AVERAGED 126.5 points per game and what did it get them? Look at Loyola Marymount during the Gathers/Kimble era - they were putting 160-180 points on people and they didn't make the Elite Eight.

    On the whole, this is unfortunate because Nash and Stoudemire are fun to watch and good for the league's image. However, defense has and always will win championships.

    Note: Motown goes up 2-1 tomorrow...
     
  8. jiggie2g macrumors 6502

    jiggie2g

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    #8
    Phoenix is out matched , they would have lost to Seattle also. Seattle was big , quick and deep. Phoenix is just quick. But San Antonio is just kiling them with Defense , it will be interesting to see how the Spurs match up agains Detroit in the Finals, Yes i said the Pistons will win. They let Miami back in game 2 and lost , If Miami need D-Wayde to score 40 and take them to OT just to beat the Pistons then thing are no looking good 4 the Heat.

    Pistons in 6(vs. Miami)

    Spurs in 5(vs. Suns)

    Finals I say Spurs in 6, they are very close defensively but San Antonio can score all they want and not need Tim Duncan to have a big game. Detroit wil lose any game thet dosen't have Rip Hamilton and Chauncy Billups score 20 a piece. If Tayshun Prince can shut down Manu Ginobili then the Piston will win.
     
  9. combatcolin macrumors 68020

    combatcolin

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    #9
    And i thought this tread was about a certain Brum land car maker.
     
  10. calyxman thread starter macrumors 6502a

    calyxman

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    #10
    I agree that San Antonio has a great defense, but also the key to a great offense is to exploit the other teams defense. The Suns are not doing that. They're handling the ball sloppily. They're not converting turnovers into points. They score only 10 in the second quarter, and their percentage from the field that quarter was I think below 30%.

    Ironically, in the 4th they did outscore San Antonio, but it wasn't enough as they were down 17 by the end of the third.

    In the series against Dallas, the Suns offense was able to wear down Dallas' defense. But in this series, they're missing good shots, Marion might as well be AWOL, Richardson is not attacking the hoop, the bench can't do anything, J. Jackson is losing his spark.

    You just don't let up in a series like this and say, "oh well, we did have a good season." That's someting the Pacers would say after all they've been through this season, that's something the Nets would say. Not the winningest team in the NBA.

    I do think the grudge match style of basketball similar to the Pistons-Pacers series is beyond boring and shows me no talent. And if anyone is overpaid or overhyped its Jermaine O'Neil of the Pacers who was ineffective against the Pistons.
     
  11. Inspector Lee macrumors 6502a

    Inspector Lee

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    #11
    I agree. You can only stomach so many 85-79 games. There was a point last season where Detroit held their opponents to under 70 points for 6-7 games in a row. Talk about ugly. Up until this season, NBA box scores were looking like college box scores. But Phoenix and some of the other gunslingin' west coast teams started to put up points. What did they average per game this season - 110?

    I think it is possible to have a 115-110 game WITH good defense being played but it will have to happen across the league. As it stands now, if you look at the box scores and see 90-77, 86-84, 118-112, you instantly say to yourself "ohhh, there was simply no defense being played there."
     
  12. calyxman thread starter macrumors 6502a

    calyxman

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    #12
    Call me unreastic, but I'm so much used to the style of play in which the Suns maintain a commanding lead the entire game, like in game one against Dallas, and games 1, 3, and 4 against Memphis. Yeah, you'll let the opposing team score over 100 points, but you score 120 or 130.

    Such a shame that they're letting their season and this series slip in a blink of an eye. At least there could have been a 6 or 7 game series. Of course, all this is a little premature as there still is a game four on Monday, but the why hide from the obvious?
     
  13. Inspector Lee macrumors 6502a

    Inspector Lee

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    #13
    Maybe not... :mad:
     
  14. Lancetx macrumors 68000

    Lancetx

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    #14
    San Antonio is a far superior team. Period. That's why they've dominated Phoenix. And it's not just Tim Duncan that is killing them, it's Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili and the Spurs deep bench. The Suns have virtually no depth whatsoever as they only really play 6 or 7 guys. I for one think the Spurs are a very fun team to watch because they can beat teams both with defense and with offense. They are definitely not a one trick pony as they've proven by outgunning the Suns offensively in this series. It will be a great finals to watch if the two best big men of the last decade (Duncan and Shaq) go at it. Detroit however still has a good chance to come back in their series (if they ever can stop Wade anyway), but Phoenix is all but dead already.
     
  15. ibookowner2 macrumors regular

    ibookowner2

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  16. calyxman thread starter macrumors 6502a

    calyxman

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    #16
    Yeah, but something is just not right for them to lose 3 in a row and put up that embarassing performance we saw in game 3. I'm skeptical about this notion that their defense is weak because any time a team plays a fast paced game will naturally give their opponent more opportunities to score during the 48 minutes. They do need to work on defensive rebounding and that means Amare should stay near the hoop instead of running for a fast break opporunity. As far as depth of bench, D'Antoni made a good point that it didn't matter all season and in the first two series so it shouldn't really matter now.

    Speaking of coaches, when the Spurs lost to Seattle in game 4 of the semis, Pop wasn't a happy camper and you can tell by his attitude during the post-game news conference that he was about ready to rip into his guys. Pop is a tough guy. D'Antoni is not like that, he's too soft. He probably pats the team on a$s and says to them "better luck next time guys."

    Psychologically you have to prepared for games like this. That's where the experience of San Antonio comes in. It involves offense and defense, and physical play, but the mental factor can't be discounted and that's where I think Phoenix is lacking at the most, or unprepared at the least.

    Tonight's game may be the last one for the Suns this season. We'll just have to see.
     
  17. Sharewaredemon macrumors 68000

    Sharewaredemon

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  18. calyxman thread starter macrumors 6502a

    calyxman

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    #18
    What a game!! What a game!!! Finally! The Suns play the kind of basketball they should be playing.

    Look I don't care if the Suns win this series as they still are dealing with their serious hemerrhoge from the first 3 losses. But I'm glad they finally won a game.

    Why am I also happy? Because this wasn't some lucky win similar to what happened in Game 1 with the Nuggets. Phoenix played defense (did anybody see Amare's block at the end on Duncan??), they played offense, Joe Johnson fought hard. And they won...in San Antonio!

    This was a serious effort, especially being down 3-0, with everyone talking about how you can't win, better luck next season, you have no defense, yada yada yada. They didn't go out there and expect the game to be over so that they can think about next season.

    Again, I'm not pinning too much hope on the Suns winning this series as they played like crap the first 3 games. I'm just glad to see them play as well as they did, because that is how they're supposed to play.

    Kudos to the Spurs bunch, Ginobili, Parker, Duncan, Horry. Those guys played hard too, and I was on the edge of my seat near the end of the fourth quarter. But the Suns put it all on the line (anybody see the do-or-die pass from Nash to Stoudemire?). Suns scored 35 in the third, holding San Antonio to 21 that quarter.

    :)
     
  19. Inspector Lee macrumors 6502a

    Inspector Lee

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    #19
    So you figure now if Phoenix goes home and takes care of business, the series is suddenly 3-2 and heading back to San Antonio where it will be no place for a nervous person. I guarantee San Antonio did not want to go back to Phoenix. In fact, they should have taken care of business. But don't expect them to go to Phoenix and just roll over. I think the Suns have to put them away early in game 5. If it is tight in the 4th, I think the Spurs will smell the series and pick it up a notch. Should be a great game...
     
  20. thecrunge macrumors member

    thecrunge

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    #20
    I knew the Suns would come in to this game more determined. Obviously after having a great season like phoenix has had, you just dont want it to end by being swept in the playoffs. Now we will have to see if they can keep it up for 3 more games. I know people are still not giving them a shot to win, but I think they can pull it off.
     
  21. MacAztec macrumors 68040

    MacAztec

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    #21
    I might be courtside on the game wednesday, i am good friends with the daughter of the owner of the pheonix suns. im not going to mention any names, but im sure you can figure it out.
     
  22. calyxman thread starter macrumors 6502a

    calyxman

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    #22
    Which is precisely my point. Everyone makes Phoenix's successful season into some Cinderalla dream-come-true season and sadly dismiss their offensive style of play. When I watched the first three games, especially game 3, I didn't see the Phoenix Suns I'm used to watching. This last game proved that when Marion, Richardson, Nash, Stoudemire, and, of course, Joe Johnson all play a great game, the Suns become a dominant force. Just look at the third quarter stats! The Suns were down 7 by the half for crying out loud, and not only did they rally back to knot the game, they shot almost flawlessly from the field in the final minutes of that quarter to start the 4th with a 7-point lead.

    If anyone looked shaken, it was Duncan. I saw the look in Duncan's eyes the few times he went to the free through line in the 4th. On the one hand he was getting chewed out by Pop, as his performance was good but not his best, but on the other hand I think he had a sense of shock as he and the rest of the Spurs thought they could put the fire out in the Suns and win this game effortlessly.

    The whole 3-0 disadvantage should be thrown out the window. It's 3-1 now. That's the way Phoenix needs to view this scenario, and if they remember back in 94, and 95, the Rockets rallied back from being down 3-1 against the Phoenix Suns team of that era, pushing the series to a game 7 and winning the series in a total upset for the ex-Suns.
     
  23. aloofman macrumors 68020

    aloofman

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    #23
    A 115-110 game used to be common 20 years ago. Check some of those Lakers-Celtics finals and you'll see that it happened regularly even in the "defense wins championships" finals. The difference is that teams don't run and pass like they did then and they don't take nearly as many shots. It's not that they didn't play defense then; they just didn't grab and obstruct as much. With today's bigger players, a one-on-one post-up mentality bred by shoe commercials, and big-money players who expect to get their 25 points a game, it's hard to convince players to play the wide-open game.

    Fans like it, but in today's game, it doesn't win titles. While San Antonio and the Lakers were winning with half-court, set offenses, Dallas and Sacramento were coming up short in the playoffs over and over. I'm not saying I don't want to see a return of the run-and-gun, just that one or two teams can't make it happen by themselves.
     
  24. wordmunger macrumors 603

    wordmunger

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    #24
    Seattle lives or dies by the three pointer. If their shooting is cold, they can lose to any team in the league, but they can beat any team on a given night if they're hot.
     
  25. blitzkrieg79 macrumors 6502

    blitzkrieg79

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    #25
    Talking about Seattle, which is my favorite NBA team as I remember the wonderful Kemp-Payton-Schrempf days (they didnt do so well in the playoffs except in 1996) but they definately were fun to watch, good offense combined with good scrambling defense...
    Anyway, San Antonio will win it all this year, the best defense and as it is showing right now it also has the best offense of the remaining 4 teams in the playoffs. Houston came back 2 times against Phoenix in the 90s but Houston was a good defensive team with excellent inside presence of Olajuwon and Phoenix's defense sucks...
    As far as San Antonio goes, one team that had chance of actually beating them this year was Seattle (Seattle had some physical nasty players plus a good offense) but injuries to Lewis and Radmanovic definately helped Spurs defeat them in 6 games...
     

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