what would you do as governor?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jefhatfield, Dec 12, 2005.

  1. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #1
    concerning the execution of tookie williams, founder of the crips who are possibly responsible for thousands of dead?

    if he is executed, a riot could ensue which will most definitely kill dozens of innocent los angeles citizens and visitors and injure hundreds...and if he isn't executed, a murderer of four and co-founder of the crips will escape execution

    the national guard is ready with troops, medical personnel, and a large amount of body bags as is the case for a "rodney king" full scale riot involving automatic weapons and handguns...the riots following rodney king were as bad as the watts riots which gained world infamy

    if williams is executed, and many believe he deserves it more than most, bullets will fly and innocent people will most definitely die and get injured on tuesday and beyond

    what would you do as governor? it's all over the talk shows and tv and the key is to have justice done but also avert extreme civil violence

    i don't envy arnold in this darkest of hours that he has to face as governor of california....he's in a no win situation
     
  2. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #2
    It is a no-win situation. I call a Switzerland on my death penalty beliefs.

    What I do know is that was the sentence he was given, he exhausted all his appeals, and in the eyes of his peers, was found guilty. That's what the governor has to examine and look at.

    All the childrens books in the world can not account for the people he killed in cold blood.
     
  3. Lacero macrumors 604

    Lacero

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    #3
    Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding.

    shameless quote from Batman Begins :p
     
  4. rdowns Suspended

    rdowns

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    #4
    IMO, this is one of the better things I've read online about this.

    http://blackpundit.com/index.php?p=345

    Excerpt:

    I remember reading and listening to Dr. Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. Real community leaders. I remember reading about Rosa Parks. To me, those individuals are community leaders. A real community leader would have the guts to stand up in front of the TV cameras and tell the people that when you do the crime you do the time. And that murdering people has to have consequences or we will have anarchy. Even the Bible says an Eye for an eye! Stanley “Tookie” Williams is a murderer not a saint. Enough racial bigotry still exist in America that Black Americans must choose carefully those issues to rally behind so as to be taken seriously when it matters! For example, when a Black American is more qualified and its time to get promoted to CEO and all the other candidates are white! Then when and if race has anything to do with non selection, people will take the allegation more seriously. For Black Americans to waste political capital on a convicted murdered and founder of a gang that has killed more US citizens than the 9/11 attackers is ludicrous! There is a limit to the amount of times one can cry wolf before people stop listening. So called community leadership are taking advantage of and exploiting Black Americans for their own reasons that will cause far more harm than good by arguing that somehow Mr. Williams’s execution represents some sort of racism! In fact those so called community leaders should be rejected for such outrageous behavior. Tell the truth.
     
  5. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #6
    the solution is easy: do what former IL governor George Ryan did and call a moritorium on executions of the death penalty. cite racial bias.

    guilty or not, williams is still incarcerated. no worries on racial riots, and let mr williams continue to speak out against joining gangs.
     
  6. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #7
    thanks for the views, keep them coming

    i personally am so torn on this that i have no solid viewpoint on this one

    what scares me is the inevitable riots which will happen, since five minutes ago, the governor denied clemency, and it's truly a scary thing for anybody to be in los angeles right now and i have relatives and friends there...i will pray for them and all of los angeles...god help us
     
  7. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #8
    Supreme Court refuses to hear case.

    Good bye, Tookie.
     
  8. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #9
    Yeah, there's gonna be a riot.
     
  9. tristan macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    There's the morals and then there's political strategy. Ethically, the guys a murderer and deserves his punishment. I'm opposed to the death penalty in principle, but I can definitely appreciate that some people deserve the needle a little more than others.

    But in terms of political strategy, yeah, LA is a freakin' powderkeg and you don't want to be the one that lights the match. So just keep the guy locked up; he's not going anywhere. Let him die of old age.
     
  10. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #11
    I'm opposed to the death penalty but even if I weren't and I was in Arnie's shoes, I'd not let him be executed. It's too high profile and there are, unfortunately too many gang members who have put him on a pedestal. It could get really, really ugly and does nothing to prove that Arnie is tough on crime, only that he's insensitive to the political realities of LA today. Not the LA of Brentwood and Hollywood, but the LA of east LA.
     
  11. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #12
    People keep saying he's changed, but the people he killed never got the chance to change...
     
  12. rickvanr macrumors 68040

    rickvanr

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    #13
  13. CanadaRAM macrumors G5

    CanadaRAM

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    #14
    Later good deeds don't erase the crime nor society's need to provide a penalty.

    But I can't condone the death penalty so I would commute to life without parole. I'd admire him for the good he has done, but also never set him free.
     
  14. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #15
    Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future. -- Oscar Wilde

    life in prison _is_ a penalty, a harsh one. killing him serves nothing more than revenge. justice is not increased.
     
  15. Lacero macrumors 604

    Lacero

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    #16
    Some inmates become institutionalized. They can't cope or deal with the real world.

    I've read stories of freed inmates who commit deadly crimes so they can be put back in prison. Sad and true.
     
  16. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #17
    are you saying then that no one should ever be released?
     
  17. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #18
    though i am against the death penalty,

    the loss of tookie's life is a tragedy

    but the lives of the four victims is four times more of a tragedy and they should not be forgotten like the press seems to have

    but the riots which inevitably will happen, and take human life, will be far worse than either and there doesn't seem to be a way to stop them at this point now that tookie has been denied clemency...the anger, on both sides of the issue, will blow up in violence and it's not what tookie would have wanted or what the families of the four victims would have wanted

    some people will use this as an excuse to loot and plunder in los angeles and it's like a tidal wave coming here and there's nothing we can do...it's just a sickening feeling
     
  18. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #19
    The present Governor seems more worried about securing next year's nomination than doing what makes sense. It's a very sad day in California and only proves the death penalty is all about vengeance and blood sport, and nothing to do with justice. If Williams is truly guilty, life in prison would have served society's interest. If he is not, this is just beyond barbarism.
     
  19. rickvanr macrumors 68040

    rickvanr

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    #20
    You know, this guy could have saved himself and most importantly others a lot of trouble if he didn't go out and kill four people. I'm not for the death penalty at all, but I have no remorse for this guy, no matter what he's done since. He killed four people.
     
  20. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #21
    yet, there's still reality.
     
  21. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #22
    Assuming you're right that he did kill four people (Williams still maintains his innocence of the crimes,) what purpose does it provide other than vengeance for the state to do the same to him instead of incarcerating him for the rest of his life? If you're wrong and he is innocent then we have put a man to death for no reason. That is a power I don't think any state needs to have.
     
  22. rickvanr macrumors 68040

    rickvanr

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    #23
    I don't agree with the death penalty. I live in a country which doesn't have the death penalty and I'm glad we got rid of it back in the 70s.

    His lawyers had a quarter century to prove he was innocent, but they didn't.

    If they're going to give him clemency (which they aren't) they should abolish the death penalty all together in the US (which they won't).
     
  23. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #24
    in the US, at least, the burden of proof lies with the prosecution.

    not sure what one has to do with the other. governors have the right to grant clemency; why should they give up that right absent a federal law?
     
  24. kuyu macrumors 6502a

    kuyu

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    #25
    This is a tough one. I'm divided on the whole thing. I did hear one unique point on the radio from a guy who did hard time. He said that people like Tookie aren't normal prisoners. That is, if any of us went to prison for killing 4 people we would be... well... you've seen the movies.

    However, Tookie is a celebrity in prison. How many crips are there in San Quentin? Enough to make him a "Godfather" in the prison system. I'm not saying that being a kingpin in prison is a great life; it's not. But what I am saying is that life for Tookie and life for average quadruple murderer are two totally different things. But death is death is death, no matter who you are.

    I still don't know where I stand, but this is an interesting point nonetheless.
     

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