Where now for the Democratic party?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Blue Velvet, Nov 3, 2004.

  1. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #1
    More fear and loathing? The political wilderness beckons...

    What do you do against this?
    http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml


    Do you think anything has changed?

    Hunter S Thompson: "The New Dumb"

    How long, O' Lord ... How long? Where will it end? The only possible good that can come of this wretched campaign is the ever-increasing likelihood that it will cause the Democratic Party to self-destruct.
    -- Fear and Loathing '72

    Sixteen years is plenty of time for even dumb people to learn just about anything they need to, especially when the difference between winning and losing is usually a matter of life or death, professionally, in the business of big-time politics. It is a question of enlightened self-interest -- learn quick or die...
     
  2. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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  3. Blue Velvet thread starter Moderator emeritus

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  4. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #4
    So...basically...neuroses and ignorance?

    I'm not trying to be a smartass or insult anyone personally, but...that's what that adds up to. :(
     
  5. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #5
    Best case scenario, Bush recognizes how little he won by and why people hate him. He begins to move back towards the center as he promised in 2000, for the good of the country and the world. He admits his mistakes, and begins to try to fix them now that he has nothing to lose but his popularity.

    Worse case, now that he has nothing to lose, he moves even further toward the right to push the administration's agendas. We enter into a facist 4th Reich state where we no longer fear Bin Laden because he's nothing compared to our own police state. Bush might pop out a tape now and then just to scare us. Many people are willing to give up their freedoms for temporary perceived safety, contrary to the true nature of what made this country so great in the first place.

    I think it will be somewhere in the middle, with some crying free speech, but no actual steps taken toward taking action against those who criticize. And many will criticize, especially if they voted for Bush and he disappoints. The rest of us who having been criticizing all along will continue to do so until this adminstration can make some changes for the better.
     
  6. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #6
    I'm not trying to spam,

    here

    I think that most of the country is being hijacked by a few metropolitan areas.

    get out the vote worked well, i think that the dems have to realize they have been hijacked by the far left and need to come right a couple of miles to even get back on the map.
     
  7. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

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    #7
    I'd fire McAuliffe and appoint Kerry to be Senate Minority Leader. The job is open now and Kerry doesn't have much else to do.
     
  8. jywv8 macrumors 6502

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    #8

    Hear, hear. We need a visionary, not a fundraiser (and preferably both).
     
  9. Dave the Great macrumors regular

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    Jan 27, 2004
    #9
    How little? I don't think you were paying attention to the results.

    Hahaha... You can't be serious.
     
  10. jywv8 macrumors 6502

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    #10
    America used to embody everything good about the young -- a fervent belief in potential and what could be; idealism and a sense of forward purpose. America had that "can do" attitude, doing things because they were hard, because they were exciting, because they were for the future -- stuff that the rest of the world could only wish they had the balls to do.

    Well, America is finally all grown up. America is now the beer-bellied ass who tells everyone else how to run their lives, kicks the cat and makes jokes about his spouse's butt in front of his friends. America is the big guy on the block whom everyone tries to duck away from but can't because he's out there every day loudly telling everyone what he's going to do to so and so. America is now a middle-aged oaf. America is now the America of Ashlee Simpson, Abu Ghraib, NFL Sundays and gas-guzzling SUVs.

    And now, for better or worse, we all have to live with it. For the first time in our history, Americans are about to experience what "faith-based" conservatism really means. And it ain't pretty.

    I don't know if he was serious, but I am.
     
  11. Dave the Great macrumors regular

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    Jan 27, 2004
    #11
    Sounds like you are talking about the War on Terrorism and Iraq.

    Ahh, your view on America is pretty limited. Sure there are people like that, but I don't think they are the overwhelming majority. I see many different kinds of people. Do you see your generalization as the overwhelming majority?

    Weren't the founding fathers faith-based conservatives?
    Why is it not going to be pretty?
     
  12. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #12
    The founding fathers were faith-based liberals. If they were faith-based conservatives, we'd still be singing "God Save the Queen". (Not that I have anything against the Queen)

    And our can-do attitude shouldn't include attacking and occupying countries that did nothing to us.
     
  13. Dave the Great macrumors regular

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    #13
    Your understanding of conservatism is incorrect. You can rebel and still be a conservative.

    I suppose we shouldn't have gone to war against Germany in WWII, since technically they did nothing to us, or the first Iraq war, or Bosnia, etc. etc.
     
  14. rt_brained macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    I said it in an earlier post and I'll say it again:

    Jack Kennedy lost his first bid for the White House too. And while I know for the last 20 some odd years the Democratic party has given their presidential candidates one shot, Senator Kerry is in a great position to lead the party over the next 4 years as it seeks to redefine itself. I think moving him to the position of Senate Minority Leader is a great move that keeps him in the spotlight for the next few years. He may have lost the election, but I don't see him losing support from his base.

    The decision to conceed early was a good one. Granted, there wasn't a lot of hope in terms of vote count like there was in 2000, but any fight would have risked putting him in the same negative light that Gore eventually ended up in when it was over. Backing out with dignity, but vowing to continue fighting is a great set up for a second run.

    Let's not spend too much time dwelling over what to do next. President Bush and his cabinet are going to continue pressing the fight, and with the help of Congress, leave an everlasting mark in our nation's history books. The Reverend Jerry Fallwell pulled no punches today when he said it was practically Bush's Evangelical duty to appoint conservative judges to the Supreme Court for the purpose of reversing Roe v. Wade. In his victory speech, Bush requested support from Democrats to help him move forward. This was not an attempt to meet in the middle. It's his way or the highway. Do not think for a moment that Bush has any intention to find a middle ground with the left.

    As we know, there is no "middle ground" with Bush, only "right and wrong." Back in the 2000 campaign, when asked whom he identified with most in the Bible, he said, "Jesus Christ." This should have been a red flag, but it wasn't. Like Christ, he knows he's not going win any popularity contest, but he is bound by his convictions to convince us "non-believers" in the U.S. (i.e., gay-supporting, pro-abortion heathenistic Democrats) and those like-minded in the rest of world, to change their ways or be damned. Bush does see a divided nation...but he also sees a divided world: those who believe and those who don't.

    He made this a victory for values because he convinced everyone with an ounce of religious conviction that there's only one party in this country that believes in god any longer. And the Democratic party has done nothing lately to deny it. The Democratic party used to speak for the common man—Southerners, Midwesterners, middle income earners...basic Americans; but it's become the party of extreme left-wing special interests.

    Where does the Democratic party go from here? We clean house. We stop allowing ourselves to be defined by what we are NOT:

    1. The Democratic party is NOT anti-war by definition. If war becomes a necessity, then we will fight tooth and nail, hand-in-hand alongside our Republican brothers and sisters.

    2. We are NOT "pro abortion". We don't view abortion as an alternative form of birth control. We respect life more than most Republicans care to understand. And we respect a woman's right of choice.

    3. We are NOT anti-god. We do NOT want remove the word "God" from our Pledge of Allegiance.

    4. We are a party that supports the rights of gays, but we are NOT a sounding box for the support of gay marriage.

    5. We are NOT a party for marijuana rights reform or freedom of drug use.

    Unfortunately, many Americans whose rights were once fought for vigorously by Democrats, feel that's what we've become—average Americans—black, white, latino, asian, middle-class, lower class and others feel abandoned by the Democratic party, and voted for Bush knowing full well he was likely to do nothing to help them save their jobs or help them get the healthcare they needed or make prescriptions more affordable.

    We can look at this election either as a defeat or an opportunity to build our character. I hope Kerry and the rest of you see it for the latter. Kerry is an extraordinarily brilliant individual who proved in Vietnam, before and after, that he's not one to back down from a fight. Like in battle, when you're forced to retreat you must find the strength to regroup and fight again. It is in that strength and resolve that heroes are made... and great battles are won.

    I intend to dig my boots into the sand and prepare for tomorrow's fight. And as I look over my shoulder, I hope to see my Democratic bretheren digging their boots in too.
     
  15. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #15
    Possibly. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.


    Germany declared war on us. Iraq did not.

    The first Iraq war was a mistake in my opinion, as was the 10 years of support we gave Saddam before that war by way of weapons programs (both conventional and chemical).

    Bosnia was a NATO action, and didn't involve us occupying Grozny for years to come with over 100,000 troops and spending $180 billion. Or fighting an insurgency. Or destabilizing the part of the world that most dislikes us and creating a greater threat by our presence.
     
  16. jywv8 macrumors 6502

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    #16
    I appreciate your sarcasm.

    I was engaging in personification. I was not saying that the majority of Americans fit this profile.

    A Supreme Court about to be filled for the next 40 years with certified theocrats. Social Security, Medicare, environmental policies: gutted. A record federal deficit and growing. Evaporating middle class. The continuance of anti-intellectualism, anti-science and anti-reason. In my opinion, that is not pretty.
     
  17. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #17
    The founding fathers could never be elected to any position in today's America.

    They were too visionary, too revolutionary and embodied an American Age of Reason that's being **** upon by this current, regressive faith-based "morality" nonsense.

    Very few of them were part of an organised religion. Some, like Thomas Jefferson, were mere deists.

    They'd be skinned alive by any run-of-the-mill GOP candidate's smear machine.
     
  18. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #18
    I say run the Senate and House races in 2006 and if the Democratic party can't make significant gains, it's time to dissolve it.

    **** it.

    Every Democratic Senator and Representative in the Congress should resign, which would in short order force the GOP to split in two.

    Maybe it'd eventually force us into a multiparty coaltion government and destroy this two-party poison.

    Parties have died before when their usefulness is past and the ruling party grows too large. I have a feeling that too many Americans will never vote Democratic because they'll never vote for a "Democrat."
     
  19. numediaman macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    I haven't posted in the political section of Macrumors since June because I couldn't stand the way so-called liberals would stand up for the most disgusting right-wing posters. When I attempted to call a spade a spade, I would be threatened by Democrats (Zim, are you listening?).

    Well, you got what you deserved. If you weren't willing to call out the most radically conservative among us before the election, what do you plan on doing now that they have solid control of the U.S. government?

    Democrats must stop letting the most immoral among us say they stand for "moral values" while they promote unprovoked war, attacking the poor, discriminating against gays, and chipping away at our civil rights.

    The Republicans know they have a mandate because they solidly control all three branches of the government. Democrats have to stand for something if they are to win. They can start by looking in the mirror and asking themselves "you mean I have no morals?" If they answer with "yes, I am without morals" they can join the republicans. If they answer with "no, I am a moral person", they can start by articulating what these "morals" are.

    As for this forum . . . maybe some here will start supporting their friends, instead of blocking for the radical right.
     
  20. kettle macrumors 65816

    kettle

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    #20
    The mistake was eight years of clinton not finishing the job.
     

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