Where's the accountability??

Discussion in 'Community' started by Taft, Aug 30, 2002.

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  1. Taft macrumors 65816

    Taft

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    #1
    This thread is inspired by a few posts on these boards lately where people have just been...well...jerks.

    Lets say we had all of the posters in this forum in a big field somewhere and we just started talking. Do you think that there would be as many flames?? As many huge egos? As many people shooting off their mouths? As many people teasing and berating a person for making one tiny little mistake? As many people laughing at a person posing a serious, heartfelt or honestly friendly question?

    I doubt it.

    The internet is becoming a place where cowards can hide behind the shadow of anonymity. The medium that so easily allows the free exchange of information and ideas is becoming tainted by the frivolousness with which the information's purveyers treat each other.

    Does anyone else think that some level of accountability needs to be maintained for real conversation, debate and exchanges of ideas to take place? Is the anonymity through which people defame, debase, attack, accuse, label, and perpetrate all sort of heinous acts going to eventually take its toll on the internet??

    I think its going to get worse before it gets better. And I haven't even touched on all of the spam, pr0n, hoaxes, and general trash that is peddled...ok, deep breath...lets not get started on that...

    Taft
     
  2. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #2
    the internet allows for freedom of speech and sometimes a more honest, less politically correct view is put forward

    the most controversial threads indeed have been the ones backtothemac and i have put up on politics

    amazingly, all who entered that landmine of a forum were actually quite nice overall to each other yet sometimes the views differed quite a lot and there were some four letter words and personal attacks

    i know some of what was said in the name of sex, politics, and religion could not be repeated on daytime television

    the early days in the first full year from mid 2000 to mid 2001 were much much worse...things are so much more civil now with the moderators;)
     
  3. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    San Destin Florida
    #3
    Dear god call Guieness. I actually agree with Taft on this one. I personally cannot stand it when someone starts a flamewar, running their mouth, cursing, being very rude and then you find out the person is 16. Hey I am 32, I have lived. The reason I have the beliefs that I have is because I have experienced life. For 16 year olds to flame me because of things I believe is hillarious. They have never even paid tax ;)

    Anyway, to hide behind an IP address and spat off at the mouth is a cowardly thing to do.
     
  4. eyelikeart Moderator emeritus

    eyelikeart

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Location:
    Metairie, LA
    #4
    Well...if there's one thing I could learn to live without here it would be the zealots. There are quite a number of those out there who simply see one way...never offering up an objective POV...and usually end up starting some sort of flamewar.

    I agree with jef here when he says that people are able to hide behind masks here on the internet. As a general rule, most people have a wall or mask that they hold up immediately to the world...and only when they are comfortable with their environment do they let it down to reveal their true self. I hate to sound this way, but I'd almost assume the ones around here who like to start sh*t up front are usually some kids getting their rocks off. Yes there are some miserable people out there who feel they should spread the wealth by pissing everyone else off...but if we know this already we should be able to ignore them right?

    I dont' know...I've learned to deal with most people. If I don't like someone's comments or attitude, I ignore them...unless I receive a thread report from someone...then I usually voice an opinion.

    As far as hiding behind IP's is concerned...whatever...if u want to be a chicken sh*t and start trouble then run away once the fuse is lit...u need to get a life :rolleyes:
     
  5. buffsldr macrumors 6502a

    buffsldr

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    #5
    Accountability? You want to know where it is? Well, Taft, I dont know. And why should I? It's not my job to know.

    Anonymously,
    Buffsldr


    PS Why do we have to be in a field somewhere? C'mon, a field? Why cant we meet indoors. I really dont think the second macrumors rally will be fun if it is hosted in a field.


    PPS I once made an observation that relates to your point? Do you know where one of the friendliest parking lot in the world is? At a gun shop. I kid you not. Why? Because everybody knows, that everybody else is packin. I have seen it myself. It is almost comical how polite and "best buddy" everyone is in the parking lot and store. Nobody wants to be a jerk and escalate the situation.
     
  6. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #6
    that is why the cold war thing worked so well...the usa and russia had nukes so neither side got too aggressive

    i don't condone having tons of nukes to keep the peace, but in a strange way, maybe by the grace of the higher power, the two superpowers did not blow each other, and everbody else, up

    so far, two people i know about have been stalked on macrumors and an employee of mine had his identity stolen by a bank teller or bank officer so hiding behind masks probably makes sense
     
  7. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    Location:
    serendipity
    #7
    shut up you whale eating morons!


    ahhhhhh. ha

    i hear what you're saying. i don't see the point in jumping on people for simple mistakes or not thinking before posting or whatever.

    now if someone repeatedly speaks out of his arse or something, that's different.

    so my question is.... how does one really create that accountability?

    should it be a moderator controlled accountability? or an arn/blakespot controlled situation? or something different entirely?



    ps. the first line is a quote from snl... word.
     
  8. Taft thread starter macrumors 65816

    Taft

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2002
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    Chicago
    #8
    Ha! That's too funny.

    Maybe computer users should be required to hook themselves up to a device that delivers an electric shock on command by other users. Then payback is just a click away. I bet the internet would a much more polite place then...even if it was feigned.

    Taft
     
  9. Taft thread starter macrumors 65816

    Taft

    Joined:
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    Chicago
    #9
    Thats the tough question. I've seen the issue addressed in newspapers before and they only say that theres a problem, not how to fix it.

    I guess this is the nature of the beast. While the internet remains a place where you can go online anonymously, we'll have this problem. And with all of the online privacy advocates out there, I don't think we'll be seeing any more personal information float around on the internet for some time. At least until it gets more secure. And that is probably a very good thing.

    But it has its downsides, and this lack of accountability is one of them.

    Taft
     
  10. Wes macrumors 68020

    Wes

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2001
    Location:
    London
    #10
    CNN 2007:

    Newsflash, Bill Gorman, New York City, a suburban 16 year old boy died while getting into an argument on the internet. He was burnt to a singe as somebody clicked to shock him; causing his EIOD (Electric Internet Order Device) to malfunction and send 600 kilowatts (enough to power his house for months) through his body.
     
  11. Ifeelbloated macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
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    some God forsaken place
    #11
    That's one of the reasons I quit AOL and never looked back. I distinctly remember that day in a chat room where the insults were flying; me, "I'm paying $24.95 a month for this?"
    "Yup!" came the answer.
    "I must be nuts." my reply.
    Next day, cancelled that crap. Hello Earthlink.
     
  12. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    Location:
    London, England
    #12
    lol! A scary thought :eek:
     
  13. Choppaface macrumors 65816

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    SFBA
    #13
    well at a board I mod, we don't allow flaming, especially not personal insults/confrontations, nor double standards, no spamming, and things get along very well compared to some of the stuff I've seen here. they've still got short tempers, but if they go nuts, we just punt them off the board. the ages are about the same as this board too, although the oldest are a bit younger and the younger are a little older.
     
  14. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2001
    #14
    Actually I'm nastier in real life :D

    jef, who was stalked from these boards? :eek: Or are you referring to that weird incident involving eye... :rolleyes:
     
  15. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #15
    i know eye said he was stalked but i don't know the details...unless he was joking

    i have to admit, he held the number one spot here longer than anybody on macrumors...longer than spikey, kela, john123, mischief, alphatech, dukestreet, or myself...so that made him a target

    i wonder what really happened...did someone visit him or harass him at work?:(
     
  16. B2TM little bro macrumors member

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    Aug 23, 2002
    #16
    ok im doing this to quit being a newbie, but i think taft should write essays
     
  17. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #17
    It seems to me that it's like the situation with the SUVs. People who feel overwhelmed by the traffic buy big SUVs or pickups or minivans in order to feel more powerful.

    I have always tried to keep things online as they are in real life and I hope that no one mistakes my silliness for berating because I really don't believe in doing that in a hidden manner. If I think something stinks, I say it stinks.

    I see a lot of people, especially at MacCentral, who go just to flame others. I also felt it was easier to win someone over if you weren't yelling at them.

    Most of the people are so good here and it's amazing, with all the people, that there aren't more difficult situations. :)
     
  18. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2001
    #18
    I wonder if anyone will ever overtake duke as #1...

    As for eye he was just joking. As far as I know he hasn't been contacted outside of MR, it seems it was just a twisted joke.
     
  19. Royal Pineapple macrumors 65816

    Royal Pineapple

    #19
    ok Back-man, ill bite this.
    personally being a 16 year old i feel that i am old enough to have my own opinions aobut politics, i also see that you have lived for twice the time that i have and your opinions are legit. so there is no nead to flame, just discuss and ocasionally disagree.

    now as for the taxes thing;)
    i happen to be holding a full time job (40 hours a week) that is paying me $12 an hour so yes I HAVE paid taxes. and i think that you might need to update your genralisation of a 16 year old ;)
    if you just picked that number out of the blue because it was half your age than i understand and no hard feilings, in fact no hard feelings eather way:D
     
  20. Gaz macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Location:
    London, UK
    #20
    Accountability, that I guess is one of the age old questions of the internet. It's probably a similar argument to guns. Who do you blame? The person who fired the gun, the person who sold them the gun, the person who legalised guns...the list goes on.

    I think much of the problem is that it is difficult to imply certain tones in written text. Sure icons help but everyone's interpretation is different. Unfortunately the computer world allows you to do things and not care about your actions and who they might affect others.

    I'm pretty new to this forum stuff and it really puts me off seeing people picking through others spelling or laying into them for a slight mis-quote. I though the whole point of a forum was to allow people with common interests to enjoy chatting with people who are similar.

    It is a great shame seeing other people making fun of other peoples ideas. There are a couple of people who believe they have this great idea or they know how to solve all of Apple's problems and they get flamed. I think it's good to see people who are keen and you never know they might actually have a really great idea one day but will be put off from past experiences. Everyone here should be looking to help encourage people; if it's not a great idea, tell them how to make it better rather than where to stick it.

    Anyway that's enough ranting for today and I hope this might actually make someone think twice. As the saying goes, unless you have something worthwhile to say, don't bother saying anything at all.

    Gaz
     
  21. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #21
    hey, congrats...that is a great job for a 16 year old...is the legal working age in texas 15 1/2 also like in california?

    i worked, thru a friend who ran a restaurant, who hired me under the table when i was 14 or just turned 15...best experience of my life...then $3.35 in 77-78 was really good money and a concert with several large name acts was six dollars where one could see pink floyd, kiss, the ramones, zep, deep purple, donna summer, bee gees, stones, kinks, bowie, john denver, neil young...etc...all the big names of their time

    but since my parents had a store, i worked there under age ten and now i will be forty next year and in some ways, i feel i have only started working

    i guess i will have to have my second 30 years working in a rest home playing grunge classics to the old folk on an acoustic guitar:p

    i have a friend that does the rest home circuit and the old people like to rock...it does not really matter what style you play for them...music is music and it's very theraputic...she gives them 60s hippie classics and it gets the old people going:p
     
  22. buffsldr macrumors 6502a

    buffsldr

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    #22
    I disagree with the previous post (edit: I mean Gaz, not Jef...but then I havent read Jef's...maybe I can flame...errrr..... disagree with him too). I think it is okay to challenge another's ideas. I dislike people coming to this site and posting their solution to apples problems without a real understanding of apple's corporate strategy and position in the market place. Apple is not trying to be the big dog in computers. And they dont need to be the big dog to be profitable.

    I mean, come on, we all have ideas for how things can be better. As a product development engineer, i understand that you totally need to understand the market into which you are launching products. So... peeps that come to this site and have hollow, poorly thought out suggestions, should be challenged. Ridiculed? No. Flamed? No. But challenged, yes.

    As far as who to blame? How about we start with the dude on the keyboard? What was that whole gun analogy about? ISPs dont flame people, people do? To me its clear that the guy typing should be blamed, unless he is not accountable for his actions (eg mentally challenged.... ) Cant you just see that? Some dude with a helmet flaming you over more iWalk posts. Oh, that would suck.
     
  23. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

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    Feb 24, 2001
    #23
    Is it okay if the 16 year old agrees with you? ;)
     
  24. awrc macrumors regular

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    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    #24
    Re: Where's the accountability??

    Is becoming?? IS BECOMING?? The Internet has been a place where cowards can hide behind the shadow of anonymity for as long as I've been on it (1989 or so) and I'm sure those who've been around longer can remember it having its fair share of jerks before then too.

    The only difference I've seen over the years is the average intelligence of the people we're talking about has dropped as the Internet has become more widely available. Back around 1989-1990 you only got flamed by well-educated college-age or adult jerks. Nowadays anyone who can (barely) type their own name can flame and call people names.

    In the old days it was at least entertaining - there was often some wit mixed in with the bile. One way of looking at it is that these people will always be with us, it's just that the dumbing down of the Internet means we have to make do with 2nd rate high school jerks who can't spell rather than quality educated jerks who can.

    Not disagreeing that it's undesirable, but I've seen people saying "something must be done" about this for thirteen years. Small battles are won here and there, but overall nothing changes.

    Besides, MacRumors already has most of the stuff people deploy to stop this stuff in place - you need to register to post to the forums, there's moderators. There's not much else you can do beyond giving the moderators bigger clue sticks and asking them to wield them more frequently.
     
  25. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2001
    #25
    Re: Re: Where's the accountability??

    That's why we come to this site. The majority of major posters here are well educated and civil except when provoked by an idiot. At least the idiots who show up leave after a few posts.
     
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