Who else is Pro Smoking?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by TMA, Feb 20, 2005.

  1. TMA macrumors 6502a

    TMA

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Location:
    England
    #1
    Or perhaps I should phrase it "Anti-Anti-Smoking" since I'm not into making everyone want to smoke, but I am against people that believe nobody should be allowed to smoke. I feel like debating the issue untill I show everyone why it is ok to smoke. I am also interested in talking to other people who feel the same as me and feel passionate about it. I am sure there have been debates here about the issue before, and I did do a quick search, but I think it's time it was brought up again.

    So let me raise some points:

    • The positive aspects of smoking are always ignored whilst the negatives are always over-exajerated.
    Benafits include (and not limited to) mild pain releive, mild anti-depressent, stress and anxiety releive, pleasent taste (subject to opinion), pleasent smell (again subject to opinion), positive social aspects (e.g It's easy to chat with other smokers and find out the gossip, most smokers are friendly whilst taking a breather) a nice way to pass the time, a great way to take 5 minutes out to recollect yourself or prepare for something. Negative side effects such as health risks and second hand smoke are always over exajurated and often based upon faulty data and floored scientific tests.

    • Smoking only effects the health of the smoker.
    Many smokers smoke mostly by themselves, in a room, living room, car, whilst out on a walk etc... Since there is no one else around how is this harming anyone else? When in bars and restaurants there is almost always sufficient ventilation to carry away smoke before it is breathed in by anyone else. Most smokers (unlesss they are arseholes) will make sure if they are smoking around someone else that doesn't that the smoke does not move in their direction and is carried away through ventilation, an open window or door. There were some scientific tests that revealed being around a bonfire for an evening causes as much damage as smoking 10 a day for a year, yet we are quick to let our kids sit around at bonfire night. DO NOT EVER use the arguement "Your smoking gives me cancer".

    • Pollution from cars, lorries, factories etc is completely overlooked.
    Why is it legal for 1 person to always be driving a People Carrier (SUV?) with no passengers? Engine fumes are much more of a concern because you are much more likely to be breathing in their posinous fumes in huge quantities compared to occasionally (once or twice a week?) catching a whiff of cigerette smoke. Let's ban having a car engine running in a public place and see how far that gets us huh?

    • Smoking should be compared with other methods of intoxication such as drinking.
    I've never seen anyone beat up their wife and kids because they have had too many cigerettes. And i've seen plenty of non-smokers lying on the street puking their guts out after pub closing time. Is alcohol illegal or frowned upon?

    • We might aswell live in a box all our lives.
    If we carry on with this 'ban everything' attitude in 50 years time there will be nothing fun left to do. Ban driving, don't ever go out in the sun, no drinking, no smoking, no sex, etc... I certainly don't want to live in a world like that.

    • Never assume a smoker only smokes because they're addicted.
    Yes there is a chemical dependance and strong side effects when a smoker doesn't get their hits, but most smokers, including myself smoke because WE WANT TO!


    I think people have some serious re-considering to do, whilst doing that I invite anyone with an opinion to post a reply! I will have to come and collect your head if you disagree though! (kidding) ;)
     
  2. CrackedButter macrumors 68040

    CrackedButter

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    Jan 15, 2003
    Location:
    51st State of America
    #2
    No amount of ventilation is good enough. I don't go into bars AT ALL because I know how useless they are.

    Smoking is bad (i don't care why people do it, other than they have to have a degree of stupidity for doing it anyway) and if people want to do it, they can. But stay at home and do it.

    Other than that...
     
  3. brap macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Location:
    Nottingham
    #3
    Wow, this has been done to death.... close to trolling, actually. You know you're in a vocal minority, but I'm not going to give you the satisfaction of taking the bait.
     
  4. TMA thread starter macrumors 6502a

    TMA

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    England
    #4
    Sorry but I don't class this as trolling. I'm interested in debating the issue with anyone else on these forums that has a strong opinion.
     
  5. angelneo macrumors 68000

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    afk
    #5
    Actually my stand is that smokers can go ahead and smoke but hopefully they can be more considerate of non-smokers preferences. Situations like smoking in an air-conditioned area or puffing away next to kids so on.
     
  6. wordmunger macrumors 603

    wordmunger

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    Sep 3, 2003
    Location:
    North Carolina
    #6
    I think smoking indoors where there are nonsmokers around is a bad idea. So if you want to smoke in your own house (and you don't have kids) that's fine, but imposing your chosen vice on others is not cool.

    I don't think we need to go so far as banning smoking near doorways (as is the case in some places in California). I agree that it's no big deal to walk through a cloud of smoke to get into a building.

    On the other hand, smoking in bars/restaurants is definitely questionable. The wait staff/other service people must endure an awful lot just for a night's pay. I'm sorry if banning smoking in restaurants makes things inconvenient for smokers, but once you start impinging on the health of others, you can't start demanding "rights" for yourself.
     
  7. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    May 26, 2004
    Location:
    Randy's House
    #7
    First, this is a stupid thread.

    Second, I am stupid for responding.

    I smoked for 15 years - 5 years smoke free this year. And I was a HEAVY smoker.

    I'll make a deal with you. You do whatever you want as long as you don't get your cigarette smoke in my breathing space.
     
  8. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    #8
    My wife and I went out for valentines day, ended up in the bar area (rare event for us) came home smelling like ashtrays, how attractive! :rolleyes:

    You want to smoke at home or outdoors (not in stadium were everyone is stuck in you smoke) than have at it.

    What I hate most about smokers, throwing their butts and half smoked cigs on the ground, just look around at a stop sign, thousands of the dang things. Use you F'n ashtray you nincompoops!

    And I live in Winston Salem NC, home of RJ Reynolds tobbacco. They provide a lot of jobs for many of my friends, and not a one of them smoke! :p
     
  9. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    Location:
    London, England
    #9
    This thread had a lot of opinions on smoking in it, might want to have a flick through.
     
  10. andiwm2003 macrumors 601

    andiwm2003

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    #10
    i'm working in the health industry. smoking poors (how much?) 30 billion dollars a year worldwide into my industry. smokers are our future customers. and good customers because they will all get those long lasting expensive diseases (cancer, circulation, blood pressure, asthma, strokes...).

    so i say, let them all smoke.

    but wait, didn't i choose the job to do something meaningful, help people? what about the children? the suffering? the taxpayers (smoking and nonsmoking) who have to pay? the diseases not being researched/treated because all the research money goes into smoking related diseases?

    argh, having morals makes life so complicated....
     
  11. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    Mar 25, 2002
    Location:
    London, England
    #11
    Rubbish. When I'm out none of the smokers in the bar give a **** about anyone else, likewise when waiting for a train or something. They make no effort to ensure their second hand smoke isn't blowing in my face :mad: Bastards.

    Second hand smoke can, and does cause cancer. Fair enough, you would need to be around it a hell of a lot I imagine, but never the less. It is no good for you, and does have the potential to cause lung cancer an what not.

    Yes there are many other things that do us all harm daily, but that doesn't mean to say that everyone should be happy to inhale others smoke just because there are these other things out there that do their own damage.
     
  12. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    iowa
    #12
    i'm anti-anti-smoking, yes. mostly i protest the organizations like JEL (just eliminate lies) and TRUTH etc... who find no problem with showing autopsies on commercial breaks, display false info on billboards, and holding illegal rallies. Quite frankly, when I was trying to cut back on my smoking, i found it tremendously difficult because of the constant images of smoking that I was being shown. I mean, they can't advertise cigarettes on TV, why can these people now start bombarding us? (and you know both of these anti-smoking organizations are run by tobacco companies, don't you? Part of the class-action settlement. So in a way, they *are* advertising cigarettes on TV now, to people who already smoke).

    I don't smoke in your house. I don't smoke in many of my favorite bars anymore, and nearly all restaurants. I don't smoke in your car, or even my car if you're in it. I have to endure lectures and dirty looks from my coworkers if I want a smoke outside. A woman picked a fight with me because i was smoking outside waiting for a candidate to show up at a political rally. LEAVE ME ALONE! How can non-smokers think that a giant billboard of a mutilated corpse is less annoying than people smoking outside bars?!!
     
  13. mcmav37 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2004
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
    #13
    You've got to be kidding me, right? I'm not even going to touch most of your arguments because they are quite flawed (maybe I should be able to dump toxic chemicals into the local river because, "Hey there are bigger polluters out there."), but I don't believe you even made some of the above statements.

    Sufficient ventilation??? This was one of the more laughable statements. Why don't you try this experiment... take a non-smoker and ask them to smell the hair or clothes of one person who just came from a bar and one person who didn't and see if they can tell. I guarantee you they will be able to smell the smoke (because their sense of smell is not impaired by smoking)... and if they can smell the smoke, then it seems pretty obvious that the person who smells like smoke also has to have inhaled it into their lungs.

    Oh, I can't argue your smoking gives me cancer? Okay, how about "Your smoking may give me cancer, but I know it gives me a headache and smelly clothes and it is probably giving your kids asthma etc."

    Oh, and as was previously posted, to all the smokers out there, use a friggin' ashtray and stop dropping them on the street or just throwing them from a car. If you can't stand to have them in your car or carry them to an ashtray--and you just inhaled their toxic fumes--imagine how the rest of us feel!
     
  14. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #14
    Concerning oneself about the safety of kids is great. But what about people who drive over the speed limit with kids in the car? Or run through red lights with kids in the car? Or do other amazingly stupid things that put kids into danger?

    I think that anyone that is stopped for a moving traffic violation with a child in the car should be charged also with child endangerment.
     
  15. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    Feb 2, 2002
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    iowa
    #15
    I agree with chip, bad parenting is it's own separate problem. But I do cringe when I see kids in smoking sections, restaurants ought not to allow that.

    And I will say this about that. American smokers, you guys need to get a clue... Cigarette butts are packed so tightly, and are so full of chemicals, that they don't biodegrade for years or even decades... Those butts you're tossing in gutters don't just disappear, they leach tiny trace amounts of chemicals into the soil, which add up over time. There are several companies on the web that sell pocket ashtrays, or you can use an altoids tin for style (the sour tins are airtight). Don't give non-smokers yet another thing to bitch about...
     
  16. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    Jul 4, 2004
    #16
    You could give up smoking any time you wanted. Right?
     
  17. russed macrumors 68000

    russed

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    #17
    oh dear. not another of these threads, i think reading the link edesign put on further up will clear up my opinions
     
  18. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    Dec 25, 2003
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    Northern Virginia
    #18
    My point Paul is that we have people that all too quickly mention "children" when it comes to the smoking issue. Are there other way too many other issues that cause a harm to children than smoking that adults are involved in. Driving poorly, choice of vehicles that put them and others at risk, both fiscally. physically and environmentally.

    You mentioned cigs in the gutters. Did you know that some of us photographers cause a greater harm by the chemicals that "we" toss down the drain? Even the cleaning solvents that we use, or the lack of car care that allows for oil and other leaks to pollute our waters?

    The point being is that we can not point fingers at one group without looking at ALL groups and their "sins".
     
  19. russed macrumors 68000

    russed

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    London, England
    #19

    well i know you disagree with me on the smoking debate but i dont bring children into it first, i thik about myself, i just dont want to smell!
     
  20. Apple Hobo macrumors 6502a

    Apple Hobo

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    #20
    Since the last tobacco debate took place, this little gem came out in the news:

    link

    This type of thing was mentioned in the first thread, but nobody seemed to care.

    And I hope this goes to wasteland before it turns into another 10+ page stalemate.
     
  21. Lacero macrumors 604

    Lacero

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    Jan 20, 2005
    #21
    I wonder how much of this is just psychosomatic and not really based on any empirical evidence. I mean, you get greater benefit just by exercising. Exercising is known to curb depression, stress and anxiety, and has a greater effect than smoking. Smoking may make you feel less depressed, but it may have to do more with your beliefs than actual reality.
     
  22. brap macrumors 68000

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    May 10, 2004
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    Nottingham
    #22
    Fundamental difference here Chip, is that smoking parents do know, and deliberately disregard health advice pertaining to children. This is at the root of the addiction - hey, little Johnny might not get sick, whereas I'd definitely feel bad if i were to stop right now.

    I reserve the right to feel somewhat sore as one of "the children" to whom you refer.
     
  23. russed macrumors 68000

    russed

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    Jan 16, 2004
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    London, England
    #23
    here here. i agree, neither sides are going to give way on this topic so it will once again turn into a slanging match with no real developments.

    so can this be wastelanded now please
     
  24. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    London, England
    #24
    We'll see how it goes.
     
  25. Artful Dodger macrumors 68020

    Artful Dodger

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    May 28, 2004
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    #25
    OK my two cents--
    Since I did a term paper on this: It was on the change of tobacco from how it was in it's first state NATURAL remember Indians?
    This has changed to what it is today, so unless you want to debate it from the beginning of its creation until now put more than ONE DAY INTO YOUR STATEMENT I put 4mths into it!!! I still learn about it since I have a minor in health at school!
    Now is it the tobacco companys that control peoples actions WHILE smoking or is it the addiction, then actions follow?
    The only problem(s) I have is please don't blow the smoke in or at my face or a childs: they have many years to inflect harm on their own- i.e. falling off a bike or getting hurt playing a sport.
    I do feel for people that are trying to quit only because of what has been put into the tobacco to create the cause/effect!
    Last to keep this short, try to open and then read some books since not everything is on the internet!!!!!
    IF YOU WANT TO START THIS DO MORE THAN A "QUICK" SEARCH!! BLISS,BLISS,BLISS!
     

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