who is baseball's greatest player ever?

Discussion in 'Community' started by jefhatfield, Aug 7, 2002.

  1. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #1
    williams? cobb? ruth? bonds? mcguire? ichiro? griffey, jr? rose? aaron? clemens? koufax?

    my short list is williams, cobb, and ichiro

    the best regular season for player (best year played) is ichiro with 1) best rookie of year plus 2) al batting champion same year, too ...and he was 3) also on team with most regular season wins ever (tying another team decades ago)

    now if he had gone to the world series and won it with the mariners and did well there, too, he would have been deemed the all time king of baseball

    but then again so would williams or cobb if they had been on the yankees

    and ichiro is 5'9" and 160 so being short, i naturally like him...just imagine if ichiro was a little bigger and if he had started in american baseball and had all that extra time to learn the us style and racked up even more hits? scary thought and one could only imagine

    or, in basketball, what if jordan did not take any time off? i would say he would have eight titles instead of six but i consider jordan the greatest ever in basketball

    or in tennis, what if there was only one williams' sister? right now, they have to share #1 rank (venus is catching up) and share grand slam titles, which i think both of them will at least get ten each

    or, what if tiger woods stayed at stanford and finished...how many fewer titles would he have now...three less by my calculations
     
  2. strider42 macrumors 65816

    strider42

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    #2
    Re: who is baseball's greatest player ever?

    ichiro wasn't even the best player in baseball last year, so how he makes the list after 1 year in the major leagues is beyond me. He arguably shouldn't have won the MVP last year. Personally I believe giambi was more valuable than he was (hit for almost as high an average and had way more doubles, homeruns, and basically carried his team). Boone was an MVP candidate and was on the same team. They didn't win 116 games because of ichiro. He's a great player, don't get me wrong, but there were a lot of great players on that team having career years.

    For sheer dominance in his era, Babe Ruth, unquestioned. He was so far ahead of everyone else its scary. and he was a great pitcher.

    Aaron was fantastic as well, underrated actually. the homeruns thing was probably the least of his accomplishments in some ways.

    Willie Mays is definltey up there as well (better than Aaron overall), so is williams. Koufax might have, if he had played longer. Randy Johnson is just as dominant as he was and has been around longer (ESPN ran a great story adjusting stats for the era played in, and johnson came up very favorably to Koufax). bonds is making his case. Griffey has fallen off, but if he gets back up, watch out. Clemens isn't anywhere near as dominanting as the all time greats. He's very, very good, but not close to even some contempararies (Johnson, again)

    McGwire doesn't come close. In his prime, he was very good, and good defensively too I might ad, but he doesn't really compare to the all time greats except for homeruns.

    I pick the babe, based purely on how far ahead of everyone else he was, and how far ahead of almost everyone he still is.

    I thought Tiger did finish 4 years at stanford I might be wrong though.

    In tennis, the williams aren't even close to the best ever. Look at the career stats of Navritilova and Steffie Graph. They aren't even in the same ball park yet, even if you combine their stats.
     
  3. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #3
    Re: Re: who is baseball's greatest player ever?

    with ichiro and williams sisters, it is still too early to call them the greatest...but look at them...truly amazing

    ichiro is hitting well this year, but like i said, if he can rack up several al titles and get somewhere in the .400+ point at retirement...cobb has highest ever at .367, then he makes everybody's list

    i think mcguire is up there...he was great in oakland before he went and broke maris' record twice and beat out sammy sosa for most home runs in a season (twice)

    clemens was held back by being with the red sox...if he was with yankees from start, all those extra rings would put him in a ballot for best pitcher ever

    and for tiger woods, he had three semesters left i think and won two majors before graduation time (if he had stayed) and broke master's record

    and if he had finished college and then had to go pro and qualify for play at that level, then he might have missed out on that other major (masters again, i think)

    woods may catch jack n but only time will tell...that is such a long time record and if woods does it, he will be in his 40s with 19 major titles to his name

    i won't go there since we could be talking more than fifteen years from now

    but with ichiro and williams sisters, five years from now will tell if they make that short list...i say they will and for good measure, i say so will clemens
     
  4. kungfu macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    #4
    ack

    you didn't even mention kirby puckett!! twins rule (i like this 17 game lead!)...
     
  5. strider42 macrumors 65816

    strider42

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    #5
    Re: Re: Re: who is baseball's greatest player ever?

    I agree, the wiliams sisters probably will be among the greatest ever by the time they finish.

    Ichiro though, I think he'll go down like tony gwynn, one of the best pure hitters to play the game, but nowhere near one of the best players ever. I like the guy, but there's a lot of things he doesn't do. He doesn't hit for power, he doesn't walk, his on base percentage is good, but not great, too many of his hits are infield hits (he's got almost 60 this year or something like that). He's an extraodinary talent, but I don't think he'll even crack the top ten all time even if he stays at this level for a while. He reminds me Joe D. in that he always puts the ball in play, but Joe D hit for more power, more RBI's (though granted he wasn't hitting lead off), etc. Ichiro is a surprisingly good outfielder though. I give him his props, he's very, very good.

    Clemens will go down as one of the best, and he is, but he's not as good as Randy Johnson as become for instance

    as for Big Mac, he was good in Oakland, but also way overrated for a long time. He was always hurt, struck out a load, eventually slowed down defensively, and his batting average wasn't that good. Trading him was great for the A's. Even though they didn't really get anyone good for him, it allowed Giambi to step in. Of course now G's gone (sob). I thought it was awesome when Sosa got the MVP in 1998, he had a better year than big Mac did. In fact, by the time he's done, he may have a better career than Mac did.

    Just my 2 cents. Interesting to think about all of this though. Have you read the ESPN articles on comparing players form different eras. Some really insightful stuff.

    I suppose I better get back to work now.
     
  6. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Location:
    serendipity
    #6
    ichiro has surprising power... that said, he's nowhere near the best ever. and i don't buy that stuff about him being bigger, or coming up in the us or whatever..

    if he were bigger, he wouldn't be as fast, wouldn't run out as many hits, wouldn't hit as high an average

    had he been raised in the us system, he probably wouldn't have the style he has, the scrappiness... which is why he is as good as he is...

    alogn those lines, i don't think he's a "pure hitter". he's a good average hitter, but he's scrappy. whereas tony gwynn wouldn't run out too many infield hits...

    plus, it's been a year and a half!


    ps. it's like saying iverson would be better if he were bigger... if he were bigger, he wouldn't play with the same style... so one can't say for sure.
     
  7. sparkleytone macrumors 68020

    sparkleytone

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Location:
    Greensboro, NC
    #7
    ted williams, yogi berra, willie mays, hank aaron, jackie robinson, nolan ryan, barry bonds, bobby bonds, ivan rodriguez, carl yastrzemski, johnny bench, babe ruth, mickey mantle, roger maris, pete rose (doesnt deserve hall of fame), ozzie smith, and a few more im sure.

    and of course, NOT Don Mattingly
     
  8. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #8
    give ichiro time...at the very worst, he will be seen as a phenomenon for his time period in baseball

    but i think he will definitely be in the pantheon of all time greats...he is not a power hitter but many power hitters hit in the low 200s and nobody strikes out as much as a power hitter
     

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