Who stole my 10gig???

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by dmilla_1, Jan 20, 2003.

  1. dmilla_1 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #1
    Hello all,
    First time poster here....thanks for the great site. Quick question: I purchased a new Maxtor ATA/133 40gb hard drive for my G4 desktop. Got everything installed without any problems (thanks to Apple's brilliant case engineering). However once installed, prior to any formatting, the drive only "shows" 31.5gb. Now I realize that there is some sort of discrepency between the way hard drive manufacturers "market" their drives and what is reality (i.e. differing ways of counting bytes etc....I'm not much for the math thing). However, isn't the loss of 9gb a bit extreme? Keep in mind this was prior to initializing the drive that it showed the 31.5gb (never would recognize 40gb). Everything functions well...partitions etc, but does Maxtor owe me 9gb? Or, are we dealing with some operator malfunctions (i.e. am I an idiot)?

    Not such a quick question afterall....Thanks to all in advance.
     
  2. ShaolinMiddleFinger macrumors 6502a

    ShaolinMiddleFinger

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2001
    #2
    It's normal. My EZQuest is supposed to be 120Gig but in the end it's just 111.78Gigs total. There's a really long explaination in one of the threads that you can search for if you want.
     
  3. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    #3
    Catalog/File Structure...

    Invisible Files...

    Number of Sectors (sector size)...

    Dead sectors...

    And the 1000 ---> 1024 conversion
     
  4. Nipsy macrumors 65816

    Nipsy

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2002
  5. FelixDerKater macrumors 68000

    FelixDerKater

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2002
    #5
    Just like my 4.6GB iPod :(
    Same for the internal HD in my TiBook that came with it. 20GB really meant 18.6GB...


    You can thank the formatting for a large portion of the loss. For example, some of the 1.4MB floppies said on the boxes that they were 2MB unformatted.

    Also, HFS+ and FAT32 on Windows salvage some of the lost space by making the allocation block smaller, so there is less waste.
     
  6. strider42 macrumors 65816

    strider42

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    #6
    the 1000 -> 1024 conversion is reallyt he biggest cultprit in "lost" drive space. The drive never is as big as advertised since the drive manufacturers use 1000 for a gigabyte, instead 1024 that the computer does.
     
  7. Megaquad macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    #7
    I thought somebody stole your iPod!! :eek:
    And seems to me that 9 GB loss in formatting indeed is a bit extreme!
     
  8. dmilla_1 thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #8
    Thanks to all....I was afraid that was the answer. One of the few times I was hoping for the "hey you're an idiot" reply followed by instructions on how easy it is to take advantage of the "marketed" 40gb. I suppose I can rip up the hate letter to Maxtor demanding my 9gig or else .... My dreams of one last partition (as if 5 were not enough) have been shot down ;)

    And though it is true that no one has made off with my iPod (since I don't own one yet)....if anyone has an extra laying around....I'll take it :D .....even a 5giger I'm not picky...

    Thanks again.
     
  9. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #9
    I have the same problem ( honestly think there is a defect somewhere).
    40gig Maxtor shows up as 31gig.
    80gig Maxtor (all 3 of them) show up as 75gig.

    :confused:


    Lethal
     
  10. FelixDerKater macrumors 68000

    FelixDerKater

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2002
    #10
    It is strange that the size differences aren't proportional.

    You would expect that if the 40GB shows 31 that the 80GB would show 62.

    Either that or the opposite showing the 80GB as 75 and the 40GB showing 37.5GB.
     
  11. djkut macrumors member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    #11
    For Comparison:

    My IBM 40GB that came stock with my Quicksilver has a capacity of 38.34GB

    and

    My IBM 120GXP 80GB has a capacity of 76.68GB.

    That 40GB shouldn't be anywhere near 31GB...

    Something sounds fishy.:mad:
     
  12. dmilla_1 thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #12
    Must.......find....hate letter to Maxtor.....demanding......9gig [read cap't Kirk] (I knew that document shredder would come back to haunt me)

    ....the plot thickens. Things just don't add up (literally). I appreciate all the help...additional thoughts are most welcome.

    I may have to get Maxtor's "official" take on this....you would think with storage being so cheap these days I could just let 9gig go (I did get the drive for $58.00 after rebates)...but it's the principle....
     
  13. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #13
    Also, the 40gig Maxtor that is 31gigs in my Mac was about 37 or so gigs in my PC.


    Lethal
     
  14. dmilla_1 thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #14
    I'm about to embarass myself here...and attempt some math. Just running through the 1000bytes per gig vs. the 1024bytes per gig problem. Correct me if I'm wrong....just be gentle ;)

    -A 40gig drive by Maxtors figures would be 40,000bytes (1000 bytes per gig)
    -40,000bytes (the number Maxtor uses) divided by 1024 (the number computer uses) comes to 39.0625.....a net loss of only a gig or so???

    Seriously, I am an idiot when it comes to math so thoughts are welcome. Still does'nt add up. Sorry, but I'm one of those people that just needs to know why....if this gets old, tell me to shut up :D

    Thanks.
     
  15. MacQuest macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Location:
    You See Dead People...
    #15
    Originally posted by Sun Baked:

    Catalog/File Structure...

    Invisible Files...

    Number of Sectors (sector size)...

    Dead sectors...

    And the 1000 ---> 1024 conversion



    Even if your math is correct, you must still factor in the other losses.

    I can't tell you how much to deduct for the them because I am actually learning a lot from this thread myself.



    Originally posted by FelixDerKater:

    It is strange that the size differences aren't proportional.

    You would expect that if the 40GB shows 31 that the 80GB would show 62.

    Either that or the opposite showing the 80GB as 75 and the 40GB showing 37.5GB.



    Originally posted by ShaolinMiddleFinger:

    It's normal. My EZQuest is supposed to be 120Gig but in the end it's just 111.78Gigs total.



    I would have to disagree that this is normal for the size of your HD and would have to say that this FURTHER validates the proportional loss theory.

    If Shaolin's 120 GB drive loses 9 GB, but is 3 times larger, then I would expect that you should lose 3 times less space, or approximately 3 GB. That amount falls closely in line with FelixDerKater's number of 37.5GB and LethalWolfes number of 37GB [on the Windows side] both of which I would agree with.

    Call and explain this to Maxtor, and if they don't have a fix of somekind DEMAND an upgrade to an 80 GB, since you know that it only loses around 5 GB according to Felix's feedback.

    Let us know how it goes.
     
  16. GeeYouEye macrumors 68000

    GeeYouEye

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    Dec 9, 2001
    Location:
    State of Denial
    #16
    Hmm.... you shouldn't be losing more than about 3-5 GB. And since it reads 37 on the PC... reformat it and see what happens.
     
  17. King Cobra macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    #17
    >(FelixDerKater) Just like my 4.6GB iPod :(
    Same for the internal HD in my TiBook that came with it. 20GB really meant 18GB...

    Just remember, those 4MB songs you transfer over to your iPod may only read as 3.8MB. :p
     
  18. mnkeybsness macrumors 68030

    mnkeybsness

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2001
    Location:
    Moneyapolis, Minnesota
    #18
    my 40 gig maxtor shows up as 37.27GB...could the difference be that it is set to slave and maybe yours isn't?(not sure if your's is or not)
     
  19. dmilla_1 thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #19
    Well...a quick look at Maxtors "knowledge base" offers a few clues. I found nothing that speaks to the exact problem....as most info is specific to the Windows side of things (i.e. BIOS problems, Fat 32 formatting problems etc). I continue to look and hope to squeeze out a few more gigs. I'm going to give the following a try and let you know what I find...

    1. One topic Maxtor mentions does deal with the jumper settings (mine currently is set as slave, good suggestion mnkeybsness
    mnkeybsness
    ). Maxtor indicates that the jumper settings do (in some cases) allow for the drive to limit it's size, Maxtor refers to this as a "Capacity Limitation Jumper". I'll try a few different settings and see...
    2. One other topic indicates that the drive is pre-formatted as Fat32. Perhaps, my initializing the drive has only re-formatted the reduced drive space from the Fat32 formatting? I may try a low level format and zero all data etc. (Zzz Zzzz....) I'll save this one for last, as it will take a while.

    Thanks, again for all the help. If I do find the solution I will be sure to let you all know, perhaps many of you have some extra gigs looming somewhere...:)
     
  20. daniel77 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2002
    Location:
    seattle, wa
    #20
    that certainly is wierd, my 60 gig from WD was only 57 formatted, wierd
     
  21. eyeluvmyimac macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2002
    #21
    there def. has to be a standard set that everyone goes by, if the 1000->1024 is the problem. if it isnt the problem, then well uh....we better get looking.

    my 120GB lacie drive registers as 117 GB but when i say get info, it says capacity is only 111.78

    Three different figures for the same drive, quite odd in my opinion.

    I figured it out though partially. If it were sold as 120GB, the conversaion would take it to 117.18, thus the 117 my iMac is telling me on the desktop. The other 6 los when I click get info is either a casualty of the formatting or other....who knows.
     
  22. janey macrumors 603

    janey

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Location:
    sunny los angeles
    #22
    my friend called seagate and western digital about the 1000-1024 thing...
    It's just a marketing thing. They tell you 100gb, they give you (according to software manufacturers) less.
     
  23. pianojoe macrumors 6502

    pianojoe

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Location:
    N 49.50121 E008.54558
    #23
    40.000.000 bytes / 1024 =
    39062,5 megabytes /1024 =
    38,14697 gigabytes

    Your loss of almost 25% of capacity is NOT a math issue. Something is wrong with the firmware, or hardware settings.
     
  24. TyleRomeo macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Location:
    New York
    #24
    yeah 9GB is a bit excessive for a 40Gb drive. My 200Gb drive went down to 186 and change.

    Tyler
     
  25. benixau macrumors 65816

    benixau

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #25
    kill maxtor. my IBM 80GB (MDD) reads as 76.68GB as an HFS+ drive with one partition on it.

    I think that if you do the 1000>1024 conversion you shuld then loose about 2-3GB again for misc stuff that doesnt affect you ever.

    do not ever ask me why. ask the maxtor/IBM/segate engineers why.

    good luck.
     

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