Who's got a nice watch? Traditional watches only, no smartwatches please.

[SchneiderMan]

*highly controversial topic* These replicas are purely for aesthetic enjoyment. Some are poorly made and others are remarkably identical to the real thing, which is arguably overpriced. Some people buy genuine parts in order to upgrade their reps to a higher standard, it's a hobby of sorts I guess. I'd be happy to spend $5,000 on base model Rolex, but not twice as much since I've got better things to do than to spend such a ridiculous amount of money on a watch. That's just me. I know people like me that own both gen and reps because the enjoy having the choice. Example:

 

[bunnspecial]

My friend is a jeweller and got stung when he bought a used Submariner last year. From the outside it looked genuine and even came boxed with all the paperwork but his expert repairer suspected the movement was beating at the wrong frequency and it was confirmed as soon as he checked it closer with a loupe and popped off the back.

The beat rate thing is one that's actually really easy to see(or hear, more correctly) if you've handled even one genuine one.

Granted I have trained "watchmaker's ears" that can hear things like a watch that's(badly) out of beat or the "ping" of a screw hitting the floor . Even so, even a fake using a decent movement likely run at 21,600 bph compared to 28,800 in a Rolex(although it's not hard to find an ETA or the like that also runs at 28,800). Some really cheap ones these days run at 18,000 bph, which is fine for a pocket watch(it's the standard rate for American watches) but a bit questionable on a wrist.

Hold a 21,600 bph watch up to your ear followed by a 28,800 bph and the difference is immediately obvious. Look carefully(ideally through a loupe) and you can probably see the difference in the second hand motion also.

The really fun one is the Elgin "Jitterbug" timer, which I'm told was used for timing artillery fire. It's a 16 size pocket watch(19"' or 1.7") with a teeny, tiny balance wheel more appropriate to a 6"' ladies's movement. It runs at 144,000 bph(40 bps) and has a 10-seoncd sweep hand. It actually makes more of a "buzz" when running(not surprising considering that the "tick" frequency is 40hz). I got quite a shock one time when I picked one up out of a junk box and it started running-I'd initially thought that the balance wheel was missing and that I was hearing the train free wheeling or possibly the result of one missing balance jewel causing the fork to "flutter." It was a pleasant surprise to realize that it was actually complete and working correctly.

 

[SchneiderMan]

The beat rate thing is one that's actually really easy to see(or hear, more correctly) if you've handled even one genuine one.

Granted I have trained "watchmaker's ears" that can hear things like a watch that's(badly) out of beat or the "ping" of a screw hitting the floor . Even so, even a fake using a decent movement likely run at 21,600 bph compared to 28,800 in a Rolex(although it's not hard to find an ETA or the like that also runs at 28,800). Some really cheap ones these days run at 18,000 bph, which is fine for a pocket watch(it's the standard rate for American watches) but a bit questionable on a wrist.

Hold a 21,600 bph watch up to your ear followed by a 28,800 bph and the difference is immediately obvious. Look carefully(ideally through a loupe) and you can probably see the difference in the second hand motion also.

The really fun one is the Elgin "Jitterbug" timer, which I'm told was used for timing artillery fire. It's a 16 size pocket watch(19"' or 1.7") with a teeny, tiny balance wheel more appropriate to a 6"' ladies's movement. It runs at 144,000 bph(40 bps) and has a 10-seoncd sweep hand. It actually makes more of a "buzz" when running(not surprising considering that the "tick" frequency is 40hz). I got quite a shock one time when I picked one up out of a junk box and it started running-I'd initially thought that the balance wheel was missing and that I was hearing the train free wheeling or possibly the result of one missing balance jewel causing the fork to "flutter." It was a pleasant surprise to realize that it was actually complete and working correctly.

The rep Sub/GMT that I've got runs 28,800bph and keeps excellent time, just 2s fast.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I understand the 'aesthetic enjoyment' thing because that applies to every single watch. Some of these fakes cost up to £1000 from what I have seen and that is madness as far as I am concerned. If it was under £100 I could perhaps see some logic but there are so many genuine amazing watches in and around the same price range and you end up with the real thing.

I understand homages because they are paying homage to an existing watch but under independent branding. If a company does the same thing but uses for example 'Rolex' on the face, it's straight into the fake category. It is a controversial topic and one that is banned on a lot of watch sites so maybe we should let the forums aimed at fakes keep that subject matter. No offence meant

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I understand the 'aesthetic enjoyment' thing because that applies to every single watch. Some of these fakes cost up to £1000 from what I have seen and that is madness as far as I am concerned. If it was under £100 I could perhaps see some logic but there are so many genuine amazing watches in and around the same price range and you end up with the real thing.

I understand homages because they are paying homage to an existing watch but under independent branding. If a company does the same thing but uses for example 'Rolex' on the face, it's straight into the fake category. It is a controversial topic and one that is banned on a lot of watch sites so maybe we should let the forums aimed at fakes keep that subject matter. No offence meant

Well, to be quite honest, I don't think that anyone here is actually expounding the idea of fakes with a view to giving support to their existence; most who have posted tend to be those who have a great admiration for, fascination with (perhaps, even a love for) well made movements and classic watches.

My sense, rather, is that those who have posted are seeking to understand why individuals would be willing to shell out what are not inconsiderable sums of money for watches that are not genuine, and have been asking themselves why people do this: Whether it is through ignorance (they don't know the difference), the desire to appear more accomplished than perhaps, they are, through the appearance of a status symbol on their wrist, the hope to fool others (if not themselves), the desire to make what they think is a killing (by buying a cheaper version of what they vaguely hope might be the real thing) and so on.

 

[SHNXX]

Well say whatever you will about fakes, but they're morally questionable at best and illegal at worst, not to mention that there are many people on the internet who use fake watches to pretend that they're wealthy.
You may say that the real ones are overpriced, but it is what the market is willing to bear, so while it might be too expensive or too cheap for some, for the people buying them, they're priced just right.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Well say whatever you will about fakes, but they're morally questionable at best and illegal at worst, not to mention that there are many people on the internet who use fake watches to pretend that they're wealthy.
You may say that the real ones are overpriced, but it is what the market is willing to bear, so while it might be too expensive or too cheap for some, for the people buying them, they're priced just right.

Ethics versus possible convenience and probable affordability. A bit of a moral dilemma.

Granted, there are some who think that markets, and ethics don't really mix, and ought not mix. Well, I'm not among them.

Now, for that matter, I'm not one who subscribes to the dictum that just because there is a demand for a product, and - in passing - that supplying this demand may ensure that handsome profits may well be made, that the market ought, in fact, to supply this demand at whatever price the market will bear.

Personally, for a variety of reasons, (ethics, proof of provenance, legal protection, respect for the skills of master craftsmen, a preference to do business with those who are not on the windy side of the law, desire to own the real thing and not an imitation), I would always buy something such as a classic watch from a legitimate sales outlet, and willingly pay the price that such guarantees of authenticity can command.

 

[MacRy]

I really don't see the point in fakes. I'd love to own a genuine Rolex/Patek/Choose your poison, but there's no way I'd buy a fake because ultimately it would only be me I'm fooling really. Other people might see it and think it was the real thing but I'd know it wasn't and I'd get no enjoyment from it.

I admit that I have bought an homage to an Explorer 1016 and I did so in the knowledge that it wasn't the real deal but was nicely made and contained a vintage Schild movement (which brings me happiness). I wear it because I love the style and get the feel of the real thing without feeling like a fraud.

I see no place for outright fakes if you are serious about watches.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I've got a Steinhart OVM which many know is a homage to the famous British Royal Navy issued Rolex Milsub 5517. I love the watch and enjoy it's aesthetic quality too but it's still a Steinhart, not a Rolex. If it had Rolex on the face without permission, I wouldn't wear it because it's not 'The Real Deal', just like my forum name lol

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I thought I would share this little story with you good people. This is my step Dad's grandfathers watch:

It's a 1964 Bulova M4. My step Dad gave it to me a week before he sadly died himself in 2012 at the age of just 52. He battled Leukaemia for 18 months and one of his dying wishes was to pass this watch onto me. I had a rather emotional conversation with him and he told me its background. It's not worth a hell of a lot but that doesn't matter. It has its own story.

It was on his grandfathers wrist the day he got dressed in his Sunday suit one day in 1968 and walked out of the mental asylum which he had been confined to for the previous 12 months. His illness was depression and in those days it was misunderstood and he was classified as insane. Nobody knows how he managed to just walk out but we can only assume the security thought he was a visitor. The asylum was in Hatton which is very near to Hatton Locks, a popular obstacle for the canal boat community these days. He strolled over to the lock and in front of several people he took his hat off, placed his wallet, sunglasses and this Bulova watch on the side before jumping to his death.

I swore I would treasure this watch and pass it on to my own children even if it has such a sad story. I'll never wear it. Watches don't have to cost thousands of pounds to be priceless to someone.

 

[MacRy]

Wow what a story. That's worth more than any high end watch on your wrist.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I thought I would share this little story with you good people. This is my step Dad's grandfathers watch:

It's a 1964 Bulova M4. My step Dad gave it to me a week before he sadly died himself in 2012 at the age of just 52. He battled Leukaemia for 18 months and one of his dying wishes was to pass this watch onto me. I had a rather emotional conversation with him and he told me its background. It's not worth a hell of a lot but that doesn't matter. It has its own story.

It was on his grandfathers wrist the day he got dressed in his Sunday suit one day in 1968 and walked out of the mental asylum which he had been confined to for the previous 12 months. His illness was depression and in those days it was misunderstood and he was classified as insane. Nobody knows how he managed to just walk out but we can only assume the security thought he was a visitor. The asylum was in Hatton which is very near to Hatton Locks, a popular obstacle for the canal boat community these days. He strolled over to the lock and in front of several people he took his hat off, placed his wallet, sunglasses and this Bulova watch on the side before jumping to his death.

I swore I would treasure this watch and pass it on to my own children even if it has such a sad story. I'll never wear it. Watches don't have to cost thousands of pounds to be priceless to someone.

Fantastic, lovely and rather moving story.

Why not wear it? Wear it in memory of them, and take pride in that.

I have a ring - well, I have a few rings which are family rings, one which my grandmother gave to my mother, who, in turn, gave it to me, and I wear it proudly - but the ring in question originally belonged to an uncle of mine by marriage.

He met my aunt, my mother's oldest sister, when he was a young RAF officer in 1940, and my aunt was a young civil servant in London. He fell for her, and proposed pretty swiftly. Although she liked him, she wanted to live life a bit, and turned him down. A few years later, after another relationship had ended, my aunt explained - decades later - that she had felt a bit down, and remembered that he had always been a decent guy, and so she contacted him. Within a short period of time, they were dating, and then, they married, in March 1943.

Her parents - my grandparents - weren't thrilled - they were Catholic and the young RAF officer was not. By then, my aunt was in the WAAFs, and had been herself commissioned, later, finishing the war as a Section Officer (equivalent rank of captain).

My uncle served in Coastal Command, and was a Flight Lieutenant when he was killed in action in November 1943. After his death, my aunt was heartbroken, but subsequently served with the Allied armies in Italy and Austria and Germany, her extraordinary task being to enter a conquered city directly after the front-line troops had captured it, and arrange for hotels and other accommodations for the Allied top brass.

My mother was her youngest sister, and I was the only family member who expressed much of an interest in all of this. Anyway, I have inherited my uncle's 'wings', his pencil case, and his ring, which my aunt wore until her death in 2000. To this day, I wear it proudly, a surprisingly heavy, solid gold signet ring.

Wow what a story. That's worth more than any high end watch on your wrist.

Agree completely.

 

[bunnspecial]

With regard to wearing fakes:

I tend to by watches out of pure horological interest, whether it's because of an unusual mechanical or a collecting/historical nuance for a particular company. A friend showed me a picture the other day of a somewhat scarce watch with a marking on it(obviously factory) that I'd never seen before. My jaw dropped when I saw it, and he said I was about the 4th or 5th person who had looked at a lot of these particular watches and had never seen that particular marking variant. Truth be told, unless you're one of the dozen or so people into collecting a very specific range of Illinois watches, you probably wouldn't appreciate it. That sort of stuff excites me.

I do wear a Rolex every day, but it was a gift to mark a significant event in my life and I treasure it for that reason. I know it's real, but honestly few folks even notice that it's anything beyond a watch on my wrist. I wouldn't wear a fake.

 

[SchneiderMan]

Well say whatever you will about fakes, but they're morally questionable at best and illegal at worst, not to mention that there are many people on the internet who use fake watches to pretend that they're wealthy.
You may say that the real ones are overpriced, but it is what the market is willing to bear, so while it might be too expensive or too cheap for some, for the people buying them, they're priced just right.

I find it funny that everyone is nay-naying replica watches when a bunch of forum members here are discussing knock-off Apple/misc brand accessories, which if you haven't noticed, are the most popular threads in accessory forums. Double standard much? Not exactly the same I know, but still... As long as someone isn't pretending that his replica is genuine, I'm fine with that.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I find it funny that everyone is nay-naying replica watches when a bunch of forum members here are discussing knock-off Apple/misc brand accessories, which if you haven't noticed, are the most popular threads in accessory forums. Double standard much? Not exactly the same I know, but still... As long as someone isn't pretending that his replica is genuine, I'm fine with that.

Not 'everyone'. Just most of those who post here.

But - anyway - are they the same forum members, or are they members of the same forum? There is a difference, and, to be quite honest, I would very much doubt that the individuals who are happy with Apple knock offs are those who would insist on wearing a genuine and authenticated watch.

Those who prefer to wear an authentic watch on their wrist would also - I suspect - not necessarily engage in the purchase of Apple knock-offs, because many of these are individuals who would strive for a degree of excellence in a number of areas of their lives.

 

[SHNXX]

I find it funny that everyone is nay-naying replica watches when a bunch of forum members here are discussing knock-off Apple/misc brand accessories, which if you haven't noticed, are the most popular threads in accessory forums. Double standard much? Not exactly the same I know, but still... As long as someone isn't pretending that his replica is genuine, I'm fine with that.

Who are those members? I am not one of them.

Also, are you really comparing getting an aftermarket strap with getting a fake watch?
If some people were getting the fake Apple watch, it would be analogous but getting an aftermarket (note: not fake) band/strap is not similar at all to getting a fake watch.
People with real watches (myself included) get an aftermarket strap all the time. Panerai owners have lots of aftermarket straps and there is nothing illegal or remotely ethically questionable about those items.

 

[SHNXX]

I find it funny that everyone is nay-naying replica watches when a bunch of forum members here are discussing knock-off Apple/misc brand accessories, which if you haven't noticed, are the most popular threads in accessory forums. Double standard much? Not exactly the same I know, but still... As long as someone isn't pretending that his replica is genuine, I'm fine with that.

Actually let me just say that I'm not necessarily criticizing you.
Clearly, you are not one of those posers who use fake watches to pretend to be rich on social media and although selling fake watches is illegal, I don't think it's illegal to buy fake watches, nor is it something akin to a real crime, even if it were technically illegal.
I understand where you are coming from, but I just don't think fake watches should be glorified.

 

[SchneiderMan]

Not 'everyone'. Just most of those who post here.

But - anyway - are they the same forum members, or are they members of the same forum? There is a difference, and, to be quite honest, I would very much doubt that the individuals who are happy with Apple knock offs are those who would insist on wearing a genuine and authenticated watch.

Those who prefer to wear an authentic watch on their wrist would also - I suspect - not necessarily engage in the purchase of Apple knock-offs, because many of these are individuals who would strive for a degree of excellence in a number of areas of their lives.

I meant in general and wasn't directly talking about any of the members in this thread. I wouldn't necessarily agree, it comes down to personal preference and priorities. Some things I care about more and would prefer to invest in. I usually have a high standard for things and always say that buying cheap things will always come around and bite you in the ass. Just because you can afford something doesn't mean you won't look for an alternative.

Who are those members? I am not one of them.

Also, are you really comparing getting an aftermarket strap with getting a fake watch?
If some people were getting the fake Apple watch, it would be analogous but getting an aftermarket (note: not fake) band/strap is not similar at all to getting a fake watch.
People with real watches (myself included) get an aftermarket strap all the time. Panerai owners have lots of aftermarket straps and there is nothing illegal or remotely ethically questionable about those items.

Again I was indirectly noting forum members. Not aftermarket, but ones that are replicas of the original. Now I would never consider buying fake electronics, not ones that I truly care about anyway. I recently started developing a liking towards certain Rolexes, but at this point and time I'm not willing to invest. For me, the next best thing is a high-end replica for me to enjoy. I see nothing wrong with that and I own a few genuine watches myself. If you're a timepiece snob then you'll never get it nor will you want to.

As for legality, it's not illegal to purchase replicas but in some countries it is. Now if you're trying to sell a rep as a gen to someone then it would be reasonable to say that you're a crappy person.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I find it funny that everyone is nay-naying replica watches when a bunch of forum members here are discussing knock-off Apple/misc brand accessories, which if you haven't noticed, are the most popular threads in accessory forums. Double standard much? Not exactly the same I know, but still... As long as someone isn't pretending that his replica is genuine, I'm fine with that.

I don't condone nor would I buy fake Apple or other accessories either. I remember posting my opinion on fakes in a thread discussing an eBay fake 'Element' case for the iPhone 6 not so long ago. So no mate it's not even relevant to this thread because none of the people here who dislike fake watches are posting in favour of other fake merchandise. I don't know where you've found a double standard? Puzzled in the extreme.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I just want to say disliking fakes has nothing to do with being a 'timepiece snob'. I can't afford a real Rolex myself and would love to enjoy one, but a fake doesn't provide the same feeling for me because it's trying to enjoy something it isn't.

If I had a Rolex on my wrist I would want to enjoy the craftsmanship of a watch that was made by the famous Swiss brand, imagining the care and attention it had received being designed and manufactured. I couldn't do that with a Chinese knock off. It's not just about the brand and appearance of course. If it is just about the look of having a Rolex on your wrist, then it doesn't matter what creation you've picked up I'm sure.

 

[SHNXX]

I meant in general and wasn't directly talking about any of the members in this thread. I wouldn't necessarily agree, it comes down to personal preference and priorities. Some things I care about more and would prefer to invest in. I usually have a high standard for things and always say that buying cheap things will always come around and bite you in the ass. Just because you can afford something doesn't mean you won't look for an alternative.




Again I was indirectly noting forum members. Not aftermarket, but ones that are replicas of the original. Now I would never consider buying fake electronics, not ones that I truly care about anyway. I recently started developing a liking towards certain Rolexes, but at this point and time I'm not willing to invest. For me, the next best thing is a high-end replica for me to enjoy. I see nothing wrong with that and I own a few genuine watches myself. If you're a timepiece snoob then you'll never get it nor will you want to.

As for legality, it's not illegal to purchase replicas but in some countries it is. Now if you're trying to sell a rep as a gen to someone then it would be reasonable to say that you're a crappy person.

By the way, I'm not a timepiece noob (Whatever that means... Are you a horologist? Did you invent a complication? How would you define a noob?).
I have been wearing watches since I was a kid and have owned everything from a Timex to a Patek Philippe Calatrava, as well as gifted a few watches ranging from Gshock to Apple watch to a Breguet to my loved ones.
Maybe that still makes a noob in your eyes, but short of becoming a watchmaker, I see no reason to get into the hobby much deeper than this.

 

[OllyW]

By the way, I'm not a timepiece noob (Whatever that means...

I think he meant snob.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Well, I'll admit that I am something of a timepiece 'snob', in that I am fascinated by the measurement of time and how that evolved and was measured and marked, and I love well crafted and elegant pieces of work, and a beautiful watch represents the fusion of form and function that is an expression of excellent design.

My current watch is an Omega Deville, with dauphine hands, date on the first quarter, and Arabic numerals on the 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 positions rather than on the four quadrants, a watch which is modelled to look like the classics of the 1950s and early 1960s.

I have had it for six years and had admired it for around three years before that, and I hugely enjoy wearing it.

 

[SHNXX]

I think he meant snob.

It reads noob, unless you are a psychic.

If you think I'm a watch snob, I guess that's fine but that name is already taken by a humorous writer on Askmen's columns.

 

[OllyW]

It reads noob, unless you are a psychic.

If you think I'm a watch snob, I guess that's fine but that name is already taken by a humorous writer on Askmen's columns.

He typed "If you're a timepiece snoob" and I thought "timepiece snob" was relative to the discussion and opinions against fakes whereas "timepiece noob" doesn't make any sense .