Why Apple is a joke in the business world

Discussion in 'MacBytes.com News Discussion' started by MacBytes, Nov 27, 2009.

  1. macrumors bot

    Jul 5, 2003


    Category: Opinion/Interviews
    Link: Why Apple is a joke in the business world
    Description:: Its not that Apple doesn't "know how to deal with enterprise", its more like Apple is doing it on Apple's terms ie through the user rather than through the IT dept and that is what IT depts aren't used to.

    Posted on MacBytes.com
    Approved by Mudbug
  2. macrumors member


    Jan 4, 2003

    There's some pretty bad fud in there, particularly the line saying that "Apple would be highly resistant to the emerging HTML 5 standard, which might make it possible to deliver complicated applications via the iPhone browser without enduring Apple's infamous application approval process."

    This is already possible on the iPhone. Where's Microsoft's HTML 5 support?
  3. macrumors 6502a

    Oct 6, 2006
  4. macrumors regular


    Nov 25, 2005
    Seattle, Washington & Siem Reap, Cambodia
    The comments section of the original article is actually better than the article itself, well worth a read.


    George Mann
  5. macrumors newbie

    Nov 27, 2009

    I think someone is just bitter because santa clause gave him a lump of coal last year instead of the macbook pro he asked for
  6. macrumors 6502a

    Black Belt

    Jun 15, 2007
    Apple IS a joke to the business world because pretty, shiny things do not necessarily equate to high quality, superior functioning things and real tech people don't get all teary-eyed over cosmetics. They also want to control the computer, not have Apple tell them how they can or can't run their own hardware. Sure Macs are nice for some things but get pretty ugly for real business. Oh, and I've owned more Macs than you.
  7. macrumors G4

    Jul 17, 2002
    If you actually knew any technical people, then you would not have said any of this.
  8. macrumors 6502a

    Oct 6, 2006
    No, you haven't.

    The reality here is that the enterprise is the place where computer makers go to die. Just ask Wang, DEC, Compaq, IBM, and several others that I can no longer remember, all soon to be joined by Dell. High volume and low margins is a recipe for disaster, and that's just what the enterprise requires. As long as it does, Apple will continue to laugh all the way to the bank as it avoids the trap that we call the enterprise.
  9. macrumors 68000

    Jason Beck

    Oct 19, 2009
    Cedar City, Utah
    Fud. Love the word. Yah I agree... Apple is worth BILLIONS.
    I don't get how they are the joke of the "business world".
    If they are worth that much, provide good quality computers that
    run both OSX and Windows, then they are not a joke in my book.
    The machines are slightly more expensive, but you see all those
    "good" stories about Apple on here really taking care of people.
    They have been good to my family in any case.
  10. macrumors 6502a

    Oct 23, 2007
    Apple sell products with a high margin that makes them hugely profitable. They sell much smaller numbers than PC manufacturers yet they have an almost equal share of the total revenue from desktop sales. They also have huge cash reserves. No business serious about making profits would do anything but admire apples business model. As for the HTML 5 nonsense, I agree with every other post...
  11. macrumors 68030


    Oct 15, 2008
    -- I -- am a technical person, my job is network administration in global satellite communications and I put my signature under what the other poster has said.

    Except for maybe -- MAYBE -- the HTML 5 bit, I don't see -any- FUD in the discussion of the original article. Macs are niche tools and they only have little space in an enterprise environment - and that space usually is in the graphics/marketing department where they run Adobe Creative Suite. I don't see anybody running business software on a Mac - that's probably because it doesn't exist.

    I don't see anybody using OS X servers, but I see a lot of Windows, Linux and Unix servers in my daily job.

    I also don't see any Macs in the engineering or network operations departments. Could be because there is no software for the Macs there either.

    Of course, the software thing can easily be changed by not using OS X on the Apple hardware. But then again, please tell me what the purpose of expensive designer hardware is when I can get much more powerful desktop PCs for a fraction of the cost of the Apple hardware?

    Also, please tell me why I should buy a Mac when I can get four-hour-on-site-service from Dell and HP, but I cannot get that kind of support from Apple?

    The very moment you begin running mission critical systems, the last thing you want is a ridiculous thing like a "genius bar" where you have to wait a couple of weeks to get an appointment. Dell gives me a phone number where I am GUARANTEED to talk to a competent engineer within THREE MINUTES. And they send me replacement systems and technicians to my server room within four hours when I buy that service. I need to keep a global network running, so for me -- THIS -- is what makes a product enterprise ready. Not some fancy design or face recognition in iPhoto or toy applications like iChat or PhotoBooth. Or that fancy animated excuse for a backup program called Time Machine. Time Machine is one of those typical Apple consumer products - try backing up some serious network infrastructure with it. Even Microsoft's good old NTBackup from 1996 was a more powerful backup solution than Apple's nice looking Time Machine is.

    But you folks should stop fooling yourself: Apple isn't the least interested in the enterprise market. They know that they have lost that segment decades ago when the Apple II lost against the IBM PC clones. Thus their entire product line and service structure is now exclusively aimed at the consumer market and they are doing very well there. They still occasionally release some prestige "professional" products ("prosumer" would be the correct label, actually) like the Mac Pro and Final Cut Studio, but that is NOT where they make their money (anymore).

    Apple is all about iPods, iPhones, iTunes and the low end MacBooks these days - where the MacBooks are mostly used as Internet surfboards and iPod backends.
  12. macrumors 6502a


    Nov 7, 2008
    I agree with you. Well written.
  13. macrumors 6502a

    Oct 6, 2006
    The fact that you're missing — probably because you just don't want to face the truth of it — is that the joke here is not Apple, but the enterprise. It simply is a bad business decision to cater to the enterprise, and that is demonstrated by the legions of PC makers that struggle to make a few percentage points in gross profit. The question is not why you should buy a Mac. It's why should Apple bother to cater to your whims? You need to recognize that you simply don't matter because you aren't willing to pay a fair price for the things you want. In fact, buying crappy solutions that don't work well has been the IT business model for a long time. It creates job security, or at least it has in the past. Eventually, IT may understand that its poor reputation is because of this policy. Until that happens, Apple and Mac users will continue to see the enterprise as the joke that it is.
  14. macrumors G4

    Oct 14, 2005
    For their xserve, they offer a similar service. The SLA isn't exactly the same as the Dell "3-minute phone response" you quoted, but this isn't the same as a Genius Bar trip either.

  15. macrumors 68000


    Dec 30, 2001
    The SimCity Deli

    MS Office and FileMaker Pro aren't used in the business world?
  16. macrumors 6502a

    Oct 6, 2006
    ... and MySQL, PHP, C, C++, Unix, email, Skype and other instant messaging services, video editing, Apache web server, etc...

    The list goes on and on, but IT types like Winni aren't interested in any of those. They're only interested in cherry picking facts that help them justify their decision to only support Windows. It's just another reason the enterprise is the real joke here.
  17. Moderator


    Staff Member

    Sep 2, 2004
    The Centennial State
    And by "they" you mean IT departments? ;)
  18. macrumors 6502a

    Oct 23, 2007
    Spot on post. Extremely well said sir :)
  19. macrumors 603


    Oct 2, 2006
    The Land of Hope and Glory
    I can kind of see your point in the rest that you said but this is just plain rubbish.

    Prosumer? Since when has a product that has been used to make numerous hollywood films been considered prosumer?

    Logic Studio is also very much NOT a prosumer application. It is used pretty widely in the professional audio world. Maybe not as much as Pro Tools HD but that, like many other areas Apple are involved in, is slowly changing.
  20. macrumors 6502

    Jun 5, 2008
    Apple is indeed a joke to the business world because their server offerings are of "low end" specs, and their desktop / laptop machines all cost quite a bit more than what big business is willing to pay.

    Businesses look at cost per seat. The hardware is only one factor of course, but when they can get a business dell pc for $299 or a laptop for $499 they aren't even going to consider Apple's products.

    The only way for Apple to get into big business is to have a "killer app" that requires Mac OS. That already exists today in the audio / video editing industry where Mac's are the defacto standard, as well as in desktop publishing. Also for travelling IT consultants who require a UNIX laptop (and not Linux), a Macbook Pro is a whole lot cheaper than the Solaris portables from Tadpole.

    But for your average corporate employee, sitting at a desk schlepping around email and word documents, the corporation simply isn't willing to pay for the higher priced Apple equipment.

    On the other hand, there is a huge amount of value in the stability and reliability of OSX, coupled with it's better security and resilience to viruses. But since no one has quantified these values yet, corporate IT has no argument.
  21. macrumors 6502a

    Oct 6, 2006
    So the joke that is the enterprise thinks that Apple is a joke. Why should Apple care?

    Until the enterprise is more concerned with total quality than the cost of the box, Apple will continue to laugh at them. What's more, companies that cater to the enterprise will continue to have no way to differentiate themselves (there's no real difference between Dell, Gateway, Acer, HP, etc.) and continue to struggle to make razor thin profits with no room for errors. Heck, the average sales tax on a Windows PC is more than the profit!
  22. macrumors 6502a

    Black Belt

    Jun 15, 2007
    Yeah right. Delusional is the word here if you think "Enterprise" is a bad word. HP for example produces a stellar computer and does just fine not raping its customers. The size of Apple pales in comparison to other computer companies. And I can't wait for the day when Apple is forced to comply with the laws everyone else is. It is a crime that I can't plug in my iPod into something other than iTunes or vice versa.

    Another example of why Apple is a joke. I am trying to change the harddrive in my Macbook. F*ng Apple uses TORX screws to mount the harddrive cover unlike everyone else who uses a standard screw. What F*ng morons.
  23. macrumors 6502a

    Oct 6, 2006
    Yes, if you think HP makes a stellar computer then you are delusional. The computer is more than the hardware, and there is nothing about HP software that is stellar. Just look at their crappy printer drivers!

    You can't claim that HP doesn't rape its customers without acknowledging that they've shipped good jobs to low wage countries where the environment and child labor are not respected. Sure, Apple has had to do some of that too, but it's companies like HP and IBM that led the way.

    As for torque screws, they're there for a reason. If you know what you're doing, they're not a problem. If you don't, then you're going to void the warranty if you mess with them.

    The more I read this, the more convinced I am that you are completely clueless. You can't get it through your skull that iTunes is NOT a product. It is one component of a highly integrated product, which has no equal in the rest of the computer industry. You want to force Apple to be the R&D department for PC companies. It's understandable that those companies would want that too, because with their tiny profit margins they can't afford to do their own research. The problem is that there would be no benefit to Apple.
  24. macrumors 68000

    Jason Beck

    Oct 19, 2009
    Cedar City, Utah
    Sorry I have a headache this morning, but where is the "joke"? Yes they are
    trumped in the server solution market, of course, but how are they a joke in
    the business world when they do "very well" as a personal or "prosumer"

    I may just being thickheaded today, but i can't see the "joke" below?
    Seems to me they know what they are doing at the moment.

    Attached Files:

  25. macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    May 19, 2002
    Yep, the joke is... with a bunch of computer execs at the bar.

    Did you hear about Apple, they decided to buck the trend on Wallstreet and buy revenue growth with expensive high margin product growth instead of using loss leaders to buy a temporary market share surge.

    Then all the execs have a hollow laugh, and start crying.

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