Why are HDTV's so freakin' expensive?

Discussion in 'Games' started by GFLPraxis, Nov 25, 2005.

  1. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #1
    Seriously, why? There are 20", $150 CRT monitors out there that support resolutions ABOVE 1080p. My literally 8-year-old monitor in front of me is running at 1600x1200 (that's taller than 1080p but not as wide, and both wider and taller than 720p). It would probably sell for $50 if I sold it.

    Yet, I go to Best Buy and there are $600 HDTV's that run at 1080i, don't support 720p, look somewhat fuzzy, have no tuner (so its just a monitor, really), and are much fatter than my CRT behind the screen.

    Why is this so? Does it make more sense for me to go out and buy a big CRT monitor and an adapter and use that for my next gen consoles?

    And does anyone know where I can find 480p TV's? I figure, 720p HDTV's are quite a bit more expensive than 1080i HDTV's, and some people have said that 480p can sometimes look better than 1080i because interlacing looks so bad, and the Revolution and my current GameCube max out at 480p anyway (though I plan to buy a PS3 eventually), so if I could get a 30" EDTV at 480p, I'd be happy. Preferably through Best Buy, as my sister gets employee discounts.
     
  2. Artful Dodger macrumors 68020

    Artful Dodger

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    #2
    Well I just got my new HDTV, a 30" Panasonic WS and it can do all three settings (480, 720, 1080). Yes it is somewhat big (22" dep x 22" h x 36" long) and about 120lbs. But man does it look good playing games and watching movies, finally my Xbox looks like I've wanted it to. Picture plus Inputs are why I bought this and not any other brand not to mention it has nice sound until I get a theater system.
    Do you want it for games only or are you building a system around it? You can pick up a nice crt HDTV say a 26" for around $300+ but I could justify the price I paid since it will be plenty for me for years to come but others may differ and that's fine. I guess price is really what you think is high but I must say a 30" will let you be very happy...if you want it to ;)
    What models were you looking at?
     
  3. risc macrumors 68030

    risc

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    #3
    I recently paid AUD$2700 for a 26" Sony KLV series LCD HDTV and that didn't include the AUD$700 for a HD digital set top box, you guys don't know how good you have it. ;)
     
  4. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #4
    Are they really p - progressive. I thought all CRT screens were interlaced
     
  5. risc macrumors 68030

    risc

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    #5
    Progressive scan just means it draws the whole picture in at once, interlaced means the picture is drawn in odd lines first, then even lines. Because of the way progressive and interlaced scan it also means you get 60 FPS on progressive and 30 on interlaced.
     
  6. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #6
    Just get a $100 set-top HDTV tuner box on ebay that has an RGB HD15 output and you can hook it up to any computer monitor.
     
  7. DISCOMUNICATION macrumors 6502a

    DISCOMUNICATION

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    #7
    480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p...

    Do you mean it can just handle the 1080 signal or is it a 1080p display with a 1980x1080 res. All HDTVs can handle all 3 (technically 5) formats. They are just converting the formats to the tv's native res. which is usually 1366x768 1280x768or720. The only flat panels that can actually display 1080 natively at the moment are made by Samsung and Sharp. 1080p is the native format and 1080i is upsampled along with everything else.
    On an interesting note my Japanese PSTwo and it's game manuals all refer to the progressive output format as 525p?!?!:eek:
     
  8. DISCOMUNICATION macrumors 6502a

    DISCOMUNICATION

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    #8
    video processing counts

    Oh, almost forgot what the thread was about. HDTVs have video processors to handle all of those formats I previously talked about. Your monitor does not. Vidoe processing keeps the picture from looking like crap. In the case of a HDTV OTA(over the air) tuner with vga output or a dvd player this vga output the player or tuner is doing the processing. Typically this isn't as good as an actual HDTV.
    I do agree with you that HDTVs are overpriced especially since the majority of them still don't come with ASTC tuners. The FCC is going to have to keep pushing back their all broadcasts in digital mandate until the industry wises up.
     
  9. GFLPraxis thread starter macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #9
    Actually, no. Most of the under-500 HDTV's at Best Buy, strangely, could handle 480p and 1080i but no 720p.


    As for 525p:





    Well, my monitor is running at 60 Hz, so I'd say yeah, it's progressive.
     
  10. GFLPraxis thread starter macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #10
    Well, because HD service is so expensive, I'm not planning to get it. I would like to use it for games and perhaps the free channels. Eventually when everything goes digital I'll have it for HD.

    Thing is, my current system (GameCube) only goes to 480p, and unless Nintendo changes their minds before release, the Revolution only goes to 480p as well. PS3 will go higher, but since it'll be the most expensive next gen console I probably won't buy it at launch; meaning it could be over a year before I can actually go above 480p.

    Is the difference watching, say, a DVD, or playing a game, normally and in progressive scan big enough to warrant the money?

    Should I just buy a second 20" CRT monitor for cheap and put it in my room for my games? (My current TV is IIRC around 26" or so)

    Here's a monitor:

    http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=P220F-BEI&cat=MON

    22", $170 refurb, Grade A (meaning perfect condition, no scratches, etc), 2048 x 1536 maximum resolution.

    I could get that and a tuner and be set...


    Any recommendations and suggestions appreciated.


    The HDTV I was looking at was this one:
    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...CategoryId=pcmcat31800050030&id=1118839462408

    It's $650 in stores (the site says there's a special discount and lists it at $399, however thats only online and it's not available online at the moment :rolleyes: ). However, my sister's Best Buy discount can get it for me for $350. 720p, 1080i, the whole deal. On the other hand, is it worth it? Can you actually see a big difference, or must I buy one of the more expensive, ultra-sharp HDTV's to really see it?

    The cheapest tuners Google revealed were $150, most were $200 and up. Someone said that they go for $100 on eBay. Is there a difference in quality between tuners or will they all have the same results?
     
  11. GFLPraxis thread starter macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #11
    Alright, so the way I see it, I have three options.

    1) Stick with what I have now.

    2) Get a 22" fullscreen monitor that can do 1080p, 720p and 480p, but being that its not wide will either stretch or add black bars to the top and bottom. Price: $180 + $100 for tuner + $3 for HD antennae (gotta love employee discounts) + whatever HD cables cost with discount (probably low). Total: about $300 + tax.

    3) Get a 30" widescreen HDTV with 1080i, 720p, and 480p. Price: $350 + $100 for tuner + $3 for HD antennae + whatever HD cables cost with discount. Total: about $500.

    Both will let me receive and watch free-to-air channels in full HD (I'd pick 720p over 1080i I think), and watch DVD's and play GameCube in Progressive Scan (480p) with the wider resolution.

    In a year or so I can play PS3 in full HD, unless Sony doesn't come out with any decent games in which case I might have to wait another year.

    I will also be ready when HD video takes off at a decent price, and can hook up a computer such as a Mac Mini when I get a Mac desktop to it without having to buy another monitor.

    Is it worth it to me at this point (the jump from 480i to 480p on everything I own + a few HD free to air channels), or should I wait a year?
     
  12. Eric5h5 macrumors 68020

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    #12
    That would be totally wrong. Fortunately! Even regular TVs can do progressive scanning at 60fps (or 50fps for PAL), as long as you limit the vertical resolution to 200-ish. All the old consoles used low-res modes like that.

    --Eric
     
  13. Artful Dodger macrumors 68020

    Artful Dodger

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    #13
    Well it's 1080i as far as any info Panasonic emailed me and I found online or at stores around town, however I forgot to inquire about the 480 on it.
    It has (like most at this size and price) the HDMI port in back.
    What gets me is my DirectTV box has S-video or Composite :cool: No Component but I'm looking for a HD box. CompUsa had one on sale today but it sold out by the time I got there.
    Yeah the service for me is $10 for 10 channels plus 4 local (I think it might be 12 channels) or I found one with 35 channels costing $30 a month. Neither say if you need to buy the receiver or not unless you "call up" so thats on my to-do list. I say that since some will wave the cost if you sign that one year contract of service.
     
  14. savar macrumors 68000

    savar

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    #14
    You mean 60 FPS on interlaced and 30 FPS on progressive, right? Where FPS = fields per second, not frames per second.
     
  15. freeorangeshoes macrumors member

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    #15
    sitting in front of my 62" toshiba dlp hdtv...worth every penny.
     
  16. GFLPraxis thread starter macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #16
    You also have to pay quite a bit up-front for the receiver itself, THEN those prices for the service you list :s
    I'm using Dish Network.


    If the HDTV can do 1080i, it can do 480p, because 480p is less than half of 1080i and like Eric5h5 said, you can cut the res in half and get progressive.

    However, it may or may not be able to do 720p if it can do 1080i.
     
  17. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #17
    over here they don't even over CRT-TVs with HDTV.. only flat screens with starting prices around 1200-1300€ (sure there are 1-2 no-name brands with 999€ tvs who are even more blurry than regular tv)

    personallyi'll hold out asl ong as possible with my current tv (4:3), since it's no sure what tuner you will need over here anyways
    i'll wait untill they hit the below 500 € and whenthere will beactually something broadcasted in HD-TV regulary
     
  18. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #18
    Yeah I've never seen a CRT TV with HD in Ireland or the UK either, hence my question about CRT's being interlaced. Maybe they are just an 'american' thing
    :)
     
  19. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #19
    because its new technology, nothing more than that. which means they can charge the premium. There are ways around it. my mate paid £500 for a 20" LCD HDTV. he's got his PC hooked up to it too. I'm paying, or rather my folks, £350 for a Dell 2005FPW which has a higher resolution albeit without a built in TV tuner and speakers. I'll get a freeview box and hook it up and bam! TV in my room, eagerly awaiting the BBC to switch to HD. which will be in 2008-2010.

    smashing! or not.
     
  20. GFLPraxis thread starter macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #20
    I'm not talking about CRT TV's, I mean actual CRT *monitors*. For a computer. Get a 22" one and it has a greater resolution than a HDTV.

    Raggedjimmi; I can get around the Premium via Best Buy discount, fortunately :) But it's still quite expensive when you count the tuner in as well.
     
  21. DISCOMUNICATION macrumors 6502a

    DISCOMUNICATION

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    #21
    Oh, sorry I didn't see the dimensions 22" deep. Yup that a CRT. I thought you had a flat panel of some kind because 120lbs. sound a little lite for a BIG tube tv. Unless it's a DLP, but then it would be alot deeper or is that thiner? Samsung makes that famously trim DLP on the light up stand.:confused:
     
  22. DISCOMUNICATION macrumors 6502a

    DISCOMUNICATION

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    #22
    1080p

    Sorry, I was only refering to the limited resolution of most flat panel technology on the market today. I should have said all flat panel HDTVs intead.

    At the moment you can count the number of 1080p sets on the market with your fingers on one hand... wait maybe 2. I believe both Samsung and Sharp have updated their models and I assume Sony would have a 1080p set on the market before the PS3 comes out. I know jack about DLP. It's pregressive right? Maybe some of them are 1080p? Oh, wait. Yes, there are a few 1080p DLPs on the market.
    I don't like the HDTV market at the moment. They keep replacing the models too rapidly. And the new tech isn't even much better. The price of BIG screens are understandable, but the below 30" range is a little rediculous for the limited tech you get. Why are they still not putting ATSC tuners in every set yet?:mad:
     
  23. Artful Dodger macrumors 68020

    Artful Dodger

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    #23
    No DLP on mine as I didn't like the Samsung model that is 2/3 thinner (picture was weird looking on the 30" but still crt). I may have misunderstood the OP on this matter as I thought he was looking at CRT HDTVs.
     
  24. James Philp macrumors 65816

    James Philp

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    #24
    I just bought one of these.
    Very chuffed with it. I justified the price thusly:
    1. It has a lot of inputs
    2. It can also be a monitor (thus taking the price off the PM i will eventually buy - a large saving) - i currently extend the desktop on my iMac with it.
    3. It will last me ages (fingers crossed) as it is future-proof.
    4. It will be the perfect companion to the next gen. of consoles.
    5. It has a built in tuner. - so It's a TV already (And does picture-in-picture).
    6. It has OK sound - so will do until I get a proper surround receiver/speakers. (although I do sometimes hook it up to some creature speakers for added bass/trebble via the stereo-out it has)
    7. 1080p is likely to be uncommon, and anyway scaled back to the native resolution of the screen (1360x768) will look sweet anyhow. (Broadcasting 1080p is almost an impossibility, and I'm not even sure if HD-DVD will be in 1080p)

    It has:
    2x scart, 1xHDMI/DVI, 1xComponent, 1xPC (D-Sub), 1xComposite, 1xS-video and audio for all those inputs (stereo only). That's a whopping 7 devices (albeit some using very old-fashoned connectors) I can connect. Add in the Tuner and lovely picture quality (from proper sources like my xbox or dvd player), especially when compared to CRT screens (no flicker or discoloration and stuff and great color) and it's a winner for me!

    I think LCD is the way to go, and expect to see the 32" dropping to the current price of the 26" in a year or so. These things seem to be getting cheaper all the time.

    P.S. It has a 170 degree viewing angle - it really does look the same color/brightness from the side/above/below as it does the front.
    P.P.S. o can also get the same model with a digital tuner.
     
  25. cepler macrumors member

    cepler

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    #25
    They're that expensive becuase enough people are willing to pay that much for them. Simple.
     

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