Why can't Dems get the message across?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thanatoast, Sep 1, 2006.

  1. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #1
    I was listening to NPR yesterday on the way home and the host was interviewing Barbara Boxer (D)CA.

    (paraphrased) The host asked, "We've heard the Democrats say the Republicans are handling everything terribly, but we haven't heard much about what the Democrats would do differently?"
    Boxer replied, "Well, I'll tell you. The Republicans have handled everything terribly..." and proceeded to wail on the Republicans. The host had to ask again, and got the same response. The third time the host asked, Boxer got all exasperated and said, "I'm trying to tell you..." did a short invective on the Republicans and *finally* said what the Democrats would do differently.

    Boxer is, I believe, the minority leader in the House. If she's such a poor communicator how in the world will she effectively run the House (if won) while fighting off the Republicans? She sounded like a moron who couldn't answer a simple question and someone who was more interested in attacking her oponents than putting forward her own position. Is short, she sounded like a weak leader.

    Even if we have a chance in November, do we have a chance?
     
  2. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #2
    What message? Democrats are owned by almost the same corporations that pull the Republican strings hence all of our problems.
     
  3. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #3
    Ok, first off Boxer is a Senator from Ca, not a Rep. You might be thinking of Nancy Pelosi, who is the minority leader of the House.

    Second, I think the Democrats are better off being vague about what they *would* do if they had any power. They're going to get attacked for their plan as soon as they present one, and they'll be attacked for not having one until then. So if you're going to be attacked regardless, you might as well make the target for you opponent as vaporous as possible. Specific plans lead to specific criticisms.

    It is enough for now for the Democrats to point out that they would do things differently, particularly as the national mood is sour on the GOP.

    Now, this may be good politics, but is it good for the nation? Probably not, but until the Democrats regain some kind of power it is fairly useless to put out plans that stand no chance. And make no mistake, even the most brilliant plan around wouldn't see the light of a vote as long as Hastert and Frist are in charge of Congress.
     
  4. beatsme macrumors 65816

    beatsme

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    #4
    If you're talking about the whole war business, nobody in the Democratic party wants to risk being painted as "un-patriotic." And IMHO, I don't think there's any way to win the argument. If you criticize the admin. for poorly supplying the soldiers, then you advocate more deficit spending. If you criticize the reasons for going to war, then you advocate inaction i.e. cowardice in the face of the enemy. If you criticize the troop shortages, then you advocate a bigger military buildup in the middle east.

    It's just like the war in Iraq...there's no way to win.
     
  5. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #5
    Or like Vietnam, pissing away our $$$, our young people for flawed policy.
     
  6. Thanatoast thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #6
    Ok, so she's a Senator. She still sounded like a venomous twit.

    As for your second comment, I disagree. The host specifically asked the question and she dodged it to sling accusations at the Republicans. I was thinking, "we *know* the Republicans screwed up, but how are you gonna fix it?".

    If the Democrats don't have a solid enough plan by now to at least start offering alternatives to Republican stratetgies, then what the hell are we voting for?

    Besides, you can't play into Republican hands by having no comeback (ie, specific plans) when they call you Defeatocrats. You have to be able to show that you're not. Simply calling them stupid won't work, they'll just dismiss you out of hand and control the debate by showing you have no idea what you're doing. At least they have a (terrible) plan, you know?
     
  7. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #7
    I think the dems arent getting theyre message across because we're just not different enough.

    Politics has all gotten very polite, politicians are afraid to say anything that might make someone mad. They prefer to be wishy washy all over the place because they want everyone to like them....and because of this no one likes them.

    I would honestly like to see less civillity within our system, this idea that you can always agree to disagree is deystroying us.

    ex. Think back to the last presedential elections
    The idea that Kerry was a flip flopper was in some ways correct, he was really bad at taking a stand on anything, he didnt even jump obvious problems of the Iraq war (why did we go in?).

    I would have prefered it if he had come out and said you know what the president or someone the president employs lied to the country about going to war. They knew they're werent any wmd's they just wanted to invade the country YOUR GOVERMENT LIED TO YOU.

    Politics needs to be angry it's not about politicians scratching eachother backs and never really taking a stand on anything. It's about standing up and saying (in the words of Chris Rock) THAT **** AINT RIGHT!!
     
  8. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #8
    I'm assuming you say that tongue in cheek, but there's irony in the statement, "What message?". (I should preface this with the standard IMO).

    The 6 Point Plan the Democrats publish:
    1. Integrity in Leadership & Open Government
    2. Real Security
    3. Energy Independence
    4. Economic Prosperity, Educational Excellence
    5. Healthcare System which Works for Everyone
    6. Retirement Security

    needs supplementary agenda items, including:

    7. Tax Reform
    8. Environmental Protection
    9. Civil Rights and Immigration Reform
    10. Election Reform
    11. A Foreign Policy which address a win/win for the ME, responsible withdrawal of U.S. troops, an economic development plan for third world countries (especially Africa, Latin America and Asia) which incites local initiative
    12. An effective and aggressive policy which more effectively and globally participates and mobilizes in addressesing both prevention, cure and solution to the HIV epidemic.

    If any democrat can articulate a clarion call and rally credible advocacy around such a platform, I'm in. There is no champion voice that I can hear clearly addressing these in a concise and consistent way.
     
  9. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #9
    The Democrats seem to be taking a two-pronged approach to the upcoming election: (1) hammer on the failed Iraq war; and (2) push their six-point program.

    According to Howard Dean, the Dems were going to be pushing the six points a lot, but they seem to have forgotten about that in recent weeks. So yes, that message is getting lost.

    At the moment they are mainly pushing the anti-war rhetoric. That doesn't excuse Boxer from not listening to the host and offering those six talking points. So yes, she's guilty of looking like she's obfuscating, just like all other politicians.

    And AP, I'd hardly call politics nowadays "polite". I think you were more on-target with "wishy-washy".
     
  10. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #10
    It wasnt long ago that the U.S. threw out the democrats for ignoring our countrys problems because of special interests, now the republicans are doing the exact same thing only 10 fold with the border,Iraq,Katrina, etc. We must hold these people accountable and republicans have run things for over a decade. Time for them to go though I have little confidence in the democratic party these days and again these guys are prostitutes to the corporations for campaign money.
     
  11. Glen Quagmire macrumors 6502a

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    #11
    The Democrats are cowards. They're scared, and for no particular reason. The current administration has messed up big time (Katrina, Iraq, bin Laden, federal deficit, ports deal, etc) yet the Democrats are still too timid and reluctant to go on the attack. There is no reason for them not to, unless they all feel that they might be painted as unpatriotic by the Republicans.

    President Bush's approval ratings - and those of the Republicans - have been dire for months. The mid-term elections approach. The Democrats have a chance of taking back control of at least one of the houses of Congress. Yet, you could be forgiven for thinking that they've liked being out of control of Congress since 1994 and out of the White House since President Bush's narrow win in 2000 and want that situation to continue.

    It's a shame that the US political system doesn't allow a viable third-party to fill the aching void between the rabid Republicans who seem to have taken control of that party (moderates like Gov. Schwarzenegger being in short supply) and the spineless Democrats.
     
  12. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #12
    She mostly is. But she's the same Senator who, IIRC, has plans to bring up a vote of no-confidence on Rumsfeld next week in the Senate. Maybe someday we'll find better politicians in California, but we seem to be short of them these days.

    I'm sure she could have done better at articulating the differences between what the Democrats would do and what the GOP would do, but there is no "what the Democrats would do" because there is no single Democrat to lead the party right now. There is "what Barbara Boxer would do" but she's not "the Democrats" and that wasn't the question.

    I'm not surprised that after 12 years of electoral ass-kickings that the Democrats are adopting the "attack and obfuscate" tactics that have served the GOP so well.

    We're voting to implement the full recommendations of the 9/11 commission. We're voting to repeal that horrible bankruptcy bill. We're voting to bring some accountability and oversight to Congress. We're voting to raise the minimum wage with no strings attached - an up-or-down vote on whether the least-paid Americans deserve better. We're voting for all these things and more.

    Here's a good comeback to the Defeatocrat line:
    Followed by reminding people just who was holding that egg when it dropped.

    Point is, on Iraq (the Defeatocrat issue), there *is no* good solution. Because of the position Bush has put us in, the best solution is still going to be pretty bad.
     
  13. Thanatoast thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #13
    Then that's what she should've said. That would've been a great answer.
     

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