Why choose Macs over PCs?(Condensed version)

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by Styles, May 17, 2002.

  1. Styles macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 5, 2002
    Location:
    San Diego, CA.
    #1
    If this came out bad, give me a break, I'm trying to get ready to go out tonight...

    I have a serious question for all of us "Mac People", as we so often get refered to as. I really, really want to know what it all boils down to in regards to WHY we all choose to support Apple. I've heard everything from people saying that they are "more creative" on a mac, that everything "just works" on a mac, to people trying to sell the idea that 1GHz G4's are faster than 2GHz P4's(somehow everyone leaves out AMD).
    I will admit that when it comes to Macs, I'm a relative newbie. My first Mac was the Rev.A iMac when it debuted. I will also admit that I chose it due to the fact that it looked so damn cool. I knew nothing about Macs except the fact that I used to use them at school. After about 4 years with the same computer(I added 4MB of VRAM, and 128MB of RAM), I finally went out and upgraded to a Dual 1GHz G4.
    All is well and good, but I get a ton of crap from ALL of my PC using friends. Only one person I know is also a Mac user. Everyone else tells me I wasted my money, and for the price of my mac (around $4,000... had to get the 17"LCD), I could have one hell of a PC system. All of this IS true.... I COULD get one hell of a PC for that amount of cash, but something inside of me wouldn't let me do it. I HAD to get the G4. I told myself that for the price, I'm getting a top of the line "super computer". One that had the ability to burn DVDs no less! What PC could do that?
    All of them now, thats how many. And now, after about 3 months, Apple is bringing out NEW G4s. With DDR RAM, something my PC friends have had nearly since it's arrival. I simply can't change out my motherboard to take advantage of this new RAM, I'd have to buy a whole new computer for this. And to have my computer become obsolete 3 months after its arrival is pretty bad. Don't get me wrong, this G4 will be my main computer for another 4 years or so, but i can't help feeling a little let down knowing Apple COULD have thrown in DDR RAM when they had the chance. It's the little things like this that make me wonder why I still use a Mac.
    Now comes your part friends. I need reassurance. I need reasons. I need GOOD reasons WHY all of us keep buying Macs.
    Thanks for letting me rant, I never get the chance to say what's on my mind to my PC friends.

    Styles. Out.
     
  2. cb911 macrumors 601

    cb911

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Location:
    BrisVegas, Australia
    #2
    why indeed.....

    well i am a PC persond and i just got a new TiBook 667. the reason i got a Mac is because i had to for the graphic design course i'm doing. i've still got the PC, it's a celeron 1.1GHz with 512MB RAM and 32MB GeForce 2 MX, CD burner etc. at the time my little genius brother built it (October last year) everything including monitor, keyboard and mouse cost AU$1100 (my standard TiBook cost AU$5200). i'm pretty impressed with the TiBook so far, although it has started to slow down recently (hard drive too slow - 4200rpm??) i've got Photoshop 6 on the PC and it wasn't too bad working on small files, but it was really slow working on a 200MB file. i'm getting Photoshop 7 on Monday and i'll be using that on the TiBook, so i'll see if it's much faster. if it's a fair bit faster then my old PC i'll be happy that it was money well spent. but then again for $5200 i could have built an awesome PC, P4, 2GB RAM etc. but i needed a notebook so i could take it to college, and the TiBooks are much better then all those PC notebooks.
    i was also using XP on the PC and i liked it. then i used OS X and i can say that i like it alot better. i'm still getting used to it but i really like it!!

    on Monday i'll let you know if i just wasted $5200.:rolleyes:
     
  3. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #3
    Re: Why choose Macs over PCs?(Condensed version)

    Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro


    Lethal
     
  4. chmorley macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #4
    It's the OS, stupid!

    Plain and simple, I can't stand working on PC's because I can't find an OS that works as well as any Mac OS. I have long provided support for PC's, and simply find everything less intuitive and more difficult on a PC.

    This commentary is limited to M$ OS's. I can't speak knowledgeably to Linux or most other flavors of UNIX. Doesn't sound like your friends are talking about that, though. My bet is that your friends have simply decided to believe what most people have told them--that PC's are better--and haven't tested that hypothesis themselves.

    If you want to be persuaded further, a PC user at ZDNet wrote these articles about his switch to an iMac.

    Week 1

    Week 2

    Frankly, I think there are other advantages to Macs, but the one that cinches it is the OS.

    Chris
     
  5. AlejandroGonzo macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2002
    Location:
    Aurora, CO
    #5
    I need to get a new computer for college. I grew up with macs IIsi and then a Performa 6200, but then, Apple went down the crapper for a while and my dad got a top of the line Dell in 1999.

    There is nothing wrong with the Dell. To this day, I can still run anything out there. Medal of Honor, for example, despite the fact that it is an old comp gets 30 fps with options turned up. I bet this is no worse than a new G4 iMac would do running the same program. I have never touched or upgraded anything and their customer service was great. The only problem I have had is a defective mouse and they took good care of me.

    When I look at Macs, they are slower, no matter what any of you say, more expensive, and just don't have the sheer numbers of programs that the Wintel world has. I admire the simplicity of the Mac OS, but nevertheless, just look at the numbers of programs.

    The slowness issue isn't all Motorola's fault. Apple is using ATA66 when there is ATA100, years behind in RAM technology. Motherboards are not as good. Couple this with SLOWER chips. A Pentium 4 2.53 Mhz is faster, faster at least than the fastest Athlons and DEFINATELY faster than the fastest Mac. You are always behind the curve, upgrades and new technology are so slow in coming that many times, when they do, they are already outdated, and on top of everything, you are paying premium prices. Apple has profit margins of around 30%. Most other PC makers in the single digits. You Apple people gripe about MS, but Apple has you in their monopolisitic grip. Mac fanatics, for whom the thought of anything other than a Mac stand in line, waiting to get fleeced by the sole supplier of Macs and the Mac OS.

    Despite all the bad thing's I've said about Apple, I WANT A POWERBOOK G4 800 Mhz for college. It's too COOL! Dell laptops at the same pricepoints are better machines as far as the specifications go, but I look at the Dell, which has been good to me and think, "wow, what a 10lbs piece of s---."

    I'm done now. Maybe I'll go visit a PC forum now and see if they can convince me to stay on the darkside.
     
  6. Choppaface macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Location:
    SFBA
    #6
    -XP is fugly
    -all my stuff is already on my mac
    -not as many privacy/ad problems (although it would be nice to have panicware for mac)
    -I'm not all that impatient
     
  7. Inhale420 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 4, 2002
  8. Grokgod macrumors 6502a

    Grokgod

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2002
    Location:
    Deep within the heart of madness!
    #8
    I started a thread and stated this but it applies here.

    Why Apple is the ONLY choice for everyone!

    There has been some talk about the comparisons tween Apple and the usual assorted Wintel boxes. One thread in general is the DO or Die for apple in newyork.

    Recently there has been posted in various web sites of the actions that Hotmail has taken against their users by enabling certain options that share users information behind members backs.

    I have a hotmail account and will be ending it.

    I imagine that this is the least of sins done against loyal Wintel users.
    Still I find it ignorant and disgusting not to mention outright and blatant abuse. Certainly this outright disregard for privacy among the other moral issues that M$ has shown a weakness in, makes it very clear that processor speed and hardware specs are not the true issue. That is the rift tween the two companys.

    It is beginning to seem to me that MAC's are not the best computers, they are the ONLY ones that are a viable choice.
     
  9. macktheknife macrumors 6502a

    macktheknife

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    #9
    My $0.02

    Well, as a Mac-returnee (I'd just returned to the Mac community with a spankin' 550 TiBook after six years of PC-dom), I definitely have a more balanced view on the whole Mac vs. PC war. First, I want to say that any disparaging remarks I make on using the Mac should not be construed as an insult but rather an honest criticism. In other words, please don't flame me if you don't like what you're about to read.

    To start off, I must admit that my TiBook running Mac OS X with 512MB of RAM is slow for certain tasks. I am uncertain whether this is a software or hardware issue, but surfing the web while multitasking (IM-ing, typing documents on Word, etc.) is slower on my TiBook than on my old Dell Inspiron running on a 800 Mhz P3 with 256 MB of RAM. I will consult a Mac expert to see if I can't kill some unnecessary programs running in the background to raise the TiBook's speed.

    Software availability is also an issue. Whereas almost every piece of software I'd encountered ran on Windows, the same, unfortunately, cannot be said for the Mac. I know, I know: Virtual PC. But, Virtual PC runs pretty slow on my computer, although it handles simple programs just fine. This is not necessarily an indictment on the Mac. This problem would be analogous cars: would be say a BMW is a piece of crap just because there are more auto parts available for the Ford Pinto? However, wouldn't it be nice to be able to not worry about selection? Just a thought.

    However, I am *very* happy with my switch, even if I had to pay a substantial premium to return to the Mac community. I am *very* happy with the tight integration between software and hardware on a Mac (i.e. things work as they are supposed to). I love using iTunes to rip, burn, and mix (to borrow Apple's slogan) and iPhotos to organize my photos. I plan on getting an iPod soon, and unlike PC users, I have *no* doubt that it'll work perfectly (that's p-e-r-f-e-c-t-l-y) on my Mac. The days of "plug and pray" are definitely over me!

    Heck, once I start learning how to use Terminal, I'll be able to take advantage of Mac OS X's UNIX underpinnings! :D
     
  10. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2002
    Location:
    All up in your bidness
    #10
    Why choose a Mac over a PC?

    I agree that Macs are generally quite a bit slower than PCs. Now I know some moron is going to yell "AltiVec!!! Gigaflops!!! Supercomputer!!!!" and yadda yadda yadda, but let's get real - speed-wise, and vector processing aside, there is no contest between a 1GHz G4 and a 2.5GHz P4. The P4 wins hands down, and at a lower price. If you are not using Photoshop or FCP or BLAST or other niche products on your Mac, your Mac will probably be substantially slower. Just suck it down and accept it.

    So why on earth would you buy a Mac instead of a PC, when you can get a faster PC for so much less? There are many reasons, none of which should be stressed individually - it's the whole package that matters.

    - Superb hardware/software integration. Plug something in and it works. Install software and it just works. Much less buggering about required than in Windows. In most cases, no buggering about required at all.
    - Higher resale value. You'll pay more for your Mac, but you'll also get more for it if/when you ever decide to sell it.
    - A technologically superior OS that is arguably better looking and more ergonomic.
    - Great hardware design. Macs may not be as fast as PCs, but they're good looking, well-built, innovative, and reliable.
    - Macs are less susceptible to virii & privacy invasions, and are more secure.

    What this all boils down to, I think, is a generally more pleasant, trouble-free, satisfying computing experience, encompassing this "whole package." To purchase a Mac instead of a PC requires that you acknowledge that speed does not have to be the most important factor in a computer purchase. Back in the days when CPUs increased in speed 33MHz at a time, say a jump from 33MHz to 66MHz, speed was very important. Unless for some reason you need bleeding-edge speed, both the Mac and the PC are fast enough to last for years, because the threshold at which computers become useful has long been exceeded.

    Let me ask you a question - if Macs and PCs were as they are today but you didn't know what DDR SDRAM was, and the technical aspects of both Macs and PCs were utterly mysterious to you, would you care about their respective RAM speeds? If not, then you might want to reconsider your usage of memory bandwidth as one of the sole yardsticks of a decent computer. I know that this requires a pretty serious change in one's thought process, but it can be done. Sticking with the Mac platform will require getting beyond the mentality that there is a "race" against the "PC world." If all you're doing is racing, and you're on the Mac side, you'll be constantly stressed out because you'll be losing all the time! Life is short - realize that this race never ends and stop and smell the roses.

    When you buy a Mac, you're trading mad speed for mad usability. I would encourage you not to succumb to peer pressure, but to buy what you think would be best for you.

    Alex
     
  11. iGav macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    #11
    Because I like my TiBooks glowing Apple logo......
     
  12. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2002
    Location:
    All up in your bidness
    #12
    I agreed with your entire post except for this part, and I realize you weren't trying to start a flame war or anything and I'm not an Apple apologist but I wanted to reply to this anyway.

    I wouldn't say Apple has a monopolistic grip. Yes, they are the only supplier of Macs and the Mac OS, but if you don't like them, you can switch to a PC. "Monopoly" implies complete domination of a market and the complete absence of choice on the part of the consumer. For example, I came to the Mac from Linux, and if I started to get pissed off at Apple, I could just as easily switch back. That's not a monopoly.

    Nor would I say that Apple is fleecing its customers. Yes, its profit margins are quite high relative to PC makers, but that only says something about the desirability of their products and the willingness of consumers to pay what they do for them. I'm sorry to use the clichéd car analogy here, but, the profit margins of Porsche and Mercedes are quite high compared to those of Chevrolet, yet I don't think many would say that Porsche is "fleecing" its customers, since those customers buy what they do solely by their own will.

    Alex
     
  13. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2002
    Location:
    All up in your bidness
    #13
    YES! Forget all that **** I said, this is where it's at. :)
     
  14. cb911 macrumors 601

    cb911

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Location:
    BrisVegas, Australia
    #14
    come on, don't use the software argue. all the good programs are available for Mac and PC.

    you still want a PowerBook? because it's cool? exactly! Macs are just really cool, and you get what you pay for(titanium, widescreen etc.) anyone who complains that Apple is too expensive just shouldn't own one then!
     
  15. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #15
    but many shoppers of software only buy off shelves and that is where mac software could stand to be seen more

    for mac software, i buy at school or the mac store in town but sometimes good titles come out on mac second...i saw pc photoshops sooner in every case on the store shelves

    tomb raider...pc version came out way before each time
     
  16. AlejandroGonzo macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2002
    Location:
    Aurora, CO
    #16
    The point I am trying to make is that PC users can list logical reasons for sticking with their platform, while it is much more difficult for Mac users.

    PC users can say:
    Faster
    Cheaper
    More Programs

    I just haven't heard as compelling a reason as that list. Mac users turn to intangibles.

    Logic in most cases dictates a PC. However, if logic dictated everything, I would get a minivan instead of a sports car.

    No matter how you cut it, there are more programs for the PC. They come out later for the Mac, and when they do, they are often times more expensive.

    About monopolies. There are some clear thinking people like you who would switch platforms, but then there are also the fanatics, for whom it is impossible. They have it hard wired into their brains and will stick with the platform even if Steve Jobs detonated a nuclear bomb in downtown Seatle. What you say about switching platforms, for all practical purposes is true, but these people I am talking about have been so "brainwashed" that it is not possible for them.

    You can run Linux or Windows on a different machine, or you can make your own, but for the Mac OS, you have to go to Apple, and this is why they make a killing. Tell me if there were other Apple hardware manufacturers that Mac prices would not fall. At the Porche level, there is much less competition than at the Chevy level. I also don't think the difference between Apple and PCs is as great as that between Porche and Chevy. Chevy users are clamoring to get into a Porche, or a Mercedes or a BMW, but the same can't be said for PC users and Apple.

    I also see that one of the advantages to buying Apple hardware is that it is integrated with the software. However, I question if this advantage is worth the huge difference in profit margins, an effect magnified by the fact that the PC world generally employs superior hardware.
     
  17. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #17
    being a relatively new pc tech, 3 years, i am just starting to see some of the integration problems with pcs and pc software and windows and pc hardware and software

    some more experienced techs (or super geeks) in the pc world don't care since they just tell me to write my own drivers

    could you imagine if some sound card from the store did not work in your G4 and you brought it into a certified mac repair place and told the tech, "btw, could you write a driver for this card?" yeah, right

    jef
    certified pc tech
     
  18. peterjhill macrumors 65816

    peterjhill

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    #18
    Have you actually compared prices between Dell laptops and the G4 Powerbooks? If you go to the educational site for both, this is what I come up with:

    Apple Powerbook G4:
    15.2" wide screen
    800 MHz G4
    Ati Radeon with 32 MB DDR video ram
    512 MB SDRAM - 2 dimms
    40 GB HD
    Internal wireless card
    DVD-ROM/CD-RW
    Modem
    10/100/1000 NIC
    all this for $3,007

    Now for the Dell:
    1.7 GHz Mobile P4 (but when you aren't plugged
    in how fast is the chip running?)
    GeForce2 16MB DDR Ram, that is so last year
    Floppy drive (woo hoo, if only I h
    ad something small enough to fit on a floppy)
    10/100 good enough for the student, but I actually have a gigabit ethernet connection at work.
    modem
    EXTERNAL wireless card.(be careful that it doesn't break if you bump it)
    It comes with office, but if you are a student at a University, it costs $25 for office for Mac at the computer store on your campus.

    I would go for the Mac. It is much nicer piece of equipment. Don't forget to look at all the ways you can get video out of the Mac. It is also lighter, has a better screen, and is less likely to have hardware problems. My old Dell laptop had the service guy visit it over 5 times in the year that I had it. That is one reason I switched, the other...

    Dell's don't run OS X
     
  19. chmorley macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #19
    You're showing your youth, Alejandro. There is logic in getting something that is:
    Easier to use
    More stable
    More secure
    Less intrusive (no one collecting my info w/o my knowing)
    Enjoyable

    If I wanted something cheap, I'd buy a Yugo. I don't need a Ferrari, but I like my Acura.

    I know how to use PC's and Windows just fine. I still provide support for PC's, and they break down much more on our network than the Macs do. Additionally, when Macs get buggy, the Mac users are more likely to know how to fix their problems. They have better relationships with their machines.

    What a cool thing Apple has done.

    Their computers are a bit slower, and M$ sure is slow to get around to releasing a Cocoa version of Office (if it ever happens), so the core suite of office software runs more slowly, regardless. Still, people choose (further evidence this is not a monopoly) to use Macs. Not because they can't handle PC's (they can), but because they have stormy relationships with them. I don't know many PC users who have the kind of relationships with their computers that Mac users have with theirs.

    So go ahead--tell me your machine is faster and cheaper and runs more stuff. Do you like it?

    Me neither.

    Life is too short to spend so much time frustrated. That's logical.

    Chris
     
  20. King Cobra macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    #20
    The one thing that first caught my attention about the first PowerMac G4s were that they were Supercomputers (according to Apple). I figured that the word gigaflop meant everything about performance. And since I have heard no real news about an affordable PC Supercomputer, I figured I was officially a dedicated Mac person.

    But there are other reasons to use a Mac rather than a PC. In all honesty here is what I think/know:
    Most software is easy to install.
    Connecting to the internet is a synch.
    The software is much more stable.
    The interface is user-friendly.
    MHz/GHz does not matter.

    Plain and simple.
    __________________

    Any time is a great time for iPod.
     
  21. sparkleytone macrumors 68020

    sparkleytone

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Location:
    Greensboro, NC
    #21
    It's the intangibles that count. That is why we are here.

    I hate my PC. It's a pain in the ass every time I go to use it. Its ugly. Its loud. It takes up way too much space. It eats power. The only reason it has soso uptimes is because its barely used.
     
  22. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #22
    Quick lesson:
    Just because a computer costs less doesn't mean it's cheaper. Once you factor in life of the machine, repairs, maintenance, etc you come up with a number that favors the Mac. You also have to look at features. To get Firewire and Gigabit ethernet on PCs you'll have to do some serious BTOing.

    The software issue is valid...for a gamer. Most professional, mathematical, scientific apps are available now, or will be soon. Try again.

    Finally, about the whole hardware software thing - yes, you have to go to Apple for Mac OS and Mac hardware, but you can run any version of Windows, xWindows, Darwin and older versions of Mac OS on ONE machine...let's see a commercial PC maker do that!
     
  23. mr.w macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 17, 2002
    Location:
    Colorado
    #23
    osx osx osx ....... and soon to be osx.2. plain and simple winxp and win2000 both suck. osx is the wave of the future.
     
  24. barkmonster macrumors 68020

    barkmonster

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2001
    Location:
    Lancashire
    #24
    If you're talking prices, the mac is actually very good value for money.

    compare this, bare in mind this is as close to a like for like comparison as I could get, plus it's based on the fact no PC owner I know wants anything to do with XP so long as they can still get Window 2000 somewhere.

    I priced up a PC, went to all the sites to find the best motherboard etc... used prices from a PC supplier that are far cheaper than most and made the basic spec of both machines as follows:

    CPU (800Mhz G4 or 1.9Ghz P4)
    256Mb RAM
    40Gb 7200rpm drive (IBM, I think the deskstars are what G4s use)
    Pioneer superdrive
    Internal Modem
    Gigabit Ethernet
    USB
    Firewire
    Optical Mouse
    Multimedia Keyboard
    Classic OS (WinME or Mac OS 9)
    Modern OS (Win2000 or OS X)

    The PC did have other things aswell, floppy, mobo, case, fan, heatsink cpu etc... I kept everything as cheap as possible without resorting to low quality components. Also bare in mind I'm from the UK so you'll probably frown that the overall cost of everything if you don't.

    The PC came to £1,294 excluding V.A.T. and cabling such as power and hard drive connectors.

    2 free expansion slots (PCI) with all the cards needed to bring it up to the mac's spec.

    As a side note, I tried as hard as I could to find combo cards for firewire/Gigabit and other add ons macs have as standard and I chose the most expandable motherboard I could find.

    I went on the Applestore and added a superdrive to the entry level model.

    The Mac came to £1,289 excluding V.A.T. obviously, everything is included.

    4 free expansion slots.

    I made this comparison about 2 weeks ago, memory and component prices might have changed since but generally speaking, both computers cost the same. I see it as a tie on price.

    Performance on the other hand would be a totally relative thing, I know the PC would trash the mac at almost any task CPU intensive task, especially realtime stuff like emulation or audio plug-ins.

    I'm still not going to pop down to that PC shop, screwdriver in hand and build than heap of junk to prove a point though, I know I enjoy using macs, I enjoyed using Atari's when a mac was out of my price range, I've never enjoyed using any flavour of windows for very long, it's just not as user friendly or plug and go as the mac is. The only windows feature I'd love to see on the mac is the way it can restore files from the recycle bin back to it's original location. If I was to start listing the GUI features/advantages of the mac over windows/Gem or any other operating system I'm familar with, I'd probably have to check myself into my nearest clinic for some RSI treatment!

    If I was to recommend a Mac over a PC, I'd probably try and explain how PC is only "Personal Computer" a mac is a "PC" as much as an AMIGA or Atari ST is a "PC" it's just a relative term used to describe any computer other than a Mainframe, supercomputer or cluster. A mac is product, an image, something you can describe. A PC isn't anything because a PC doesn't technically exist as a single definable product. I think it all comes down to how technically savy you are and how much money you're prepared to spend when it comes down to a choice between a Mac or a Windows computer. It's shame how "easy" has been coupled with expensive for so many years now.

    Just my opinion on the subject anyway.
     
  25. cb911 macrumors 601

    cb911

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Location:
    BrisVegas, Australia
    #25
    yeah, Mac software does come out later than the PC versions. but if a person was getting off the shelf stuff, they wouldn't have a Mac anyway, because PC are what people see in the shops. Mac owners know their stuff and where to go for Mac software.
    i know that the software situation isn't helping in peoples decision to get a Mac, but hopefully they will go to a Apple store and have all their questions answered.
     

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