Why do applications in Osx crash?

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by Fredstar, Feb 20, 2005.

  1. Fredstar macrumors 6502a

    Fredstar

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Location:
    Near London
    #1
    I get about one crash a week, it can be v annoying like when Freeway crashed and i lost a lot of my work for the past 20 mins, Preview crashes now and again, Firefox (G5 optimized one) has crashed twice in about 2 weeks. iphoto has a few times (order book bug), idvd has a few times..my most stable apps that i use a lot are itunes and imovie.
    Now i am not complaining but i have Macaroni running all the maintenance scripts automatically, i repair permissions about 3-4 times a week but yet i still get app crashes. I reinstalled Panther about a month ago because i had about 2-3 a week, i have had my new iMac since end of November.
    So, out of interest, why exactly do Applications crash?

    Admittedly Apple's apps are very stable and i guess it is not hard to just relaunch iphoto etc And i guess Firefox and Freeway were not written by Apple
    One consitent message i get in Console logs when they crash is:
    Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
    Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x0000000e
    And then a load of other crap code or something

    I also run Preferential treatment app to check prefs and regularly trash the prefs if an app is a problem
    512 from Apple, 512 from Crucial, ran memory test and everything comes back ok
     
  2. mad jew Moderator emeritus

    mad jew

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    #2
    Something's wrong. My Mac (and I can probably vouch for most others') rarely ever crashes. That's one of the main reasons I prefer it over Windows. :)
     
  3. Fredstar thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Fredstar

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Location:
    Near London
    #3
    I meant Application crashes, not system crashes (if u interpreted it as that)
    I have only had one system crash when i have had to manually restart
     
  4. mad jew Moderator emeritus

    mad jew

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    #4
    Yeah, it's a really weird problem. All I can think of is a memory problem but the hardware test ruled that out. What I was trying to say before is that it's just not normal for a Mac to let the apps collapse like that. You're right though, it's not really an actual OSX problem. :confused:
     
  5. Mitthrawnuruodo Moderator emeritus

    Mitthrawnuruodo

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Location:
    Bergen, Norway
    #5
    Programs crash, mostly, due to bugs, i.e. errors in the programming, that only surfaces when very special circumstances happen (sometimes when unexpected things happen when the application interacts with other application or the Operating System). ALL complex applications has bugs, because it's nearly impossible to test for all eventualities. What seperates good software from bad software is only:
    1) the overall number of bugs,
    2) how quickly reported bugs are fixed and
    3) the robustness of the programming (the ability for the application to 'survive' bugs long enough to make it possible for the user to save her/his data).

    Apple has, generally, made good software, when considering all three points above... ;)
     
  6. Fredstar thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Fredstar

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Location:
    Near London
    #6
    I guess the bigger the program the harder it is to iron out all the bugs, so doing an unexpected sequence of events may cause it to become unstable and it quits? Or miscommunicates with os after trying to execute a operation? And only a long beta testing period will solve them and expose (theoretically limitless) the bugs.
    I guess everyone experiences the unexpectedly quit pop up every so often, just that i have been unlucky doing a few sequences of clicks or whatever and how stable and well written the apps are.
    Is it also true that, for example, games and applications (like Photoshop Elements 3) have just been ported to work with osx? and not been optimized for Osx/Powerpc chips?
    I was going to use Dreamweaver but decided against it because of the reports of how much slower it is.
    Oh and also when sending the info after a unexpectedly quit app to Apple should, theoretically, fix the bug. Us as consumers kinda act as a massive beta testing program, something i think we will have to do a lot of when Tiger is released
     
  7. caveman_uk Guest

    caveman_uk

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Location:
    Hitchin, Herts, UK
    #7
    Given the error message you're seeing it's an attempt by the apps to access memory they shouldn't - so it's a programming error. FWIW Safari crashes about a couple of times a week for me. I don't use firefox on mac but on windows it seems to crash about once a day - sometimes more sometimes less. There's a webpage on our intranet at work that Firefox hates and it crashes all the time with that one page. As for other apps

    iPhoto - not often. '05 hasn't crashed on me yet and '04 did it about 4 times in a year
    iMovie - never
    iTunes - never
    iDVD - never
    Preview - never

    I'd agree that of the Apple apps I use, Safari crashes the most.
     
  8. Fredstar thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Fredstar

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Location:
    Near London
    #8
    yeh Apple apps are very stable, idvd has actually never 'unexpectedly quit' just had the spinnings rainbows.
    imovie never has, itunes never has, ichat never has. Only time iphoto crashed was with the book ordering bug they had with 5.0 as soon as it was released.
     
  9. cemorris macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2004
    #9
    Bad Memory

    Same thing happened to me when I added more memory. Hardware test said it was fine also. But the second i pulled it and put in another brand of memory, all was well.
     
  10. Fredstar thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Fredstar

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Location:
    Near London
    #10
    That is quite interesting, so you have not had any problems since?
    It was from Crucial and was specced for imac...hmm, i actually had my first unexpectedly quit after a month after i had added the other 512.
     
  11. daveL macrumors 68020

    daveL

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2003
    Location:
    Montana
    #11
    If I get one app crash a month, it's unusual. I think the last one was Safari with a very large number of tabs and multiple windows open.
     
  12. yellow Moderator emeritus

    yellow

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #12
    First off, there seems to be a lot of misinformation flying around here.

    1) There's a lot more to crashes then the programming in the App in question. We have no idea what 3rd party plug-ins your apps might be using. Those could be terribly programmed and causing the crashes. We have no idea what haxies you might be using, and they are notorious for causing all sorts of instability on the system.

    2) Repairing permissions 3-4 times a week is completely worthless and isn't doing you a bit of good. The only time you should be repairing permissions is when you install something that asks for an admin password. That's the only possible time that permissions are changed (without you changing them by hand, or someone maliciously messing with your system through compromise. No app (other then an installer) should ever be fiddling with your permissions without alerting you). Repairing of permissions compares what your file structure has, against those of the BOMs in /Library/Receipts/. If they differ, they are "repaired".

    3) The important and useful parts of crashlogs are "a load of other crap code or something". What you gave us tells us nothing.

    4) The hardware tester CD that Apple gives you is the biggest piece of crap ever. I've been supporting Macs since 1993 and not ONCE have any of those CDs actually caught a hardware problem. If you REALLY want to test your RAM, try using something like Memtest, and run it for a long time (hours), so it can accurately test your RAM.

    Having an app crash once a week is not very often, so I wouldn't be to annoyed about it. But, if you want some better idea of what might be the problem crashing these apps on you, please post the actual last entries in the crashlogs.
     
  13. Fredstar thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Fredstar

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Location:
    Near London
    #13
    Thanks
    Didn't mean to offend anyone with the crap code saying, just that it means nothing to me, although to others it might mean a lot. I can't actually copy and paste all the 'threads' because of the message limit is exceeded by loads but here is a bit if it helps:
    Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
    Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x0000000e

    Thread 0:
    0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90017b28 swtch_pri + 0x8
    1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90017254 sched_yield + 0x14
    2 libnspr4.dylib 0x03025b0c PR_Sleep + 0x5c
    3 org.mozilla.firefox 0x0022e278 _ZN16nsMacMessagePump13DispatchEventEiP11EventRecord + 0x188
    4 org.mozilla.firefox 0x0022df7c _ZN16nsMacMessagePump13DoMessagePumpEv + 0x4c
    5 org.mozilla.firefox 0x00211518 _ZN10nsAppShell3RunEv + 0x38
    6 org.mozilla.firefox 0x00947e48 _Z8xre_mainiPPcPK12nsXREAppData + 0x1028
    7 org.mozilla.firefox 0x0000fe48 start + 0x1c8
    8 dyld 0x8fe1a558 _dyld_start + 0x64

    Thread 1:
    0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9000b20c select + 0xc
    1 libnspr4.dylib 0x03027bf4 poll + 0x1b4
    2 libnspr4.dylib 0x03024cc0 PR_FD_NISSET + 0x2d10
    3 org.mozilla.firefox 0x000d73a8 _ZN24nsSocketTransportService3RunEv + 0x248
    4 libxpcom.dylib 0x070531ac _ZN8nsThread4MainEPv + 0x3c
    5 libnspr4.dylib 0x030275d4 PR_GetSP + 0x6b4
    6 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900246e8 _pthread_body + 0x28

    Thread 2:
    0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900074c8 mach_msg_trap + 0x8
    1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90007018 mach_msg + 0x38
    2 libjvm.dylib 0x9253c68c JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 0x173c
    3 libjvm.dylib 0x9253c624 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 0x16d4
    4 libjvm.dylib 0x924fdc9c JVM_GetClassMethodsCount + 0x21c
    5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900246e8 _pthread_body + 0x28

    Thread 3:
    0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900074c8 mach_msg_trap + 0x8
    1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90007018 mach_msg + 0x38
    2 libjvm.dylib 0x9249a89c JVM_NewInstance + 0x1fcc
    3 libjvm.dylib 0x924b9f18 JVM_FillInStackTrace + 0x2b8
    4 libjvm.dylib 0x924bf948 JVM_Send + 0x42e8
    5 libjvm.dylib 0x9255173c JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 0x167ec
    6 libjvm.dylib 0x924fdc9c JVM_GetClassMethodsCount + 0x21c
    7 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900246e8 _pthread_body + 0x28

    Thread 4:
    0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900074c8 mach_msg_trap + 0x8
    1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90007018 mach_msg + 0x38
    2 libjvm.dylib 0x9249a808 JVM_NewInstance + 0x1f38
    3 libjvm.dylib 0x924a2a20 JVM_ArrayCopy + 0x4d0
    4 libjvm.dylib 0x924b8b48 JVM_MonitorNotify + 0x778
    5 libjvm.dylib 0x924b97a8 JVM_MonitorWait + 0xd8
    6 <<00000000>> 0x0f22bcfc 0 + 0xf22bcfc
    7 <<00000000>> 0x0f22bf00 0 + 0xf22bf00
    8 <<00000000>> 0x0f10868c 0 + 0xf10868c
    9 <<00000000>> 0xa24a3720 _ZTSSt13bad_exception + 0x6e7c
    10 libjvm.dylib 0x9249808c JVM_CurrentTimeMillis + 0x136c
    11 libjvm.dylib 0x924cd518 JVM_GetCPClassNameUTF + 0x1798
    12 libjvm.dylib 0x924d2ce4 JVM_FindClassFromClass + 0x9e4
    13 libjvm.dylib 0x924ec170 JVM_IsSameClassPackage + 0xfc0
    14 libjvm.dylib 0x924e66d8 JVM_GetMethodIxExceptionTableEntry + 0x2058
    15 libjvm.dylib 0x92577054 JVM_UnloadLibrary + 0x85c4
    16 libjvm.dylib 0x924fdc9c JVM_GetClassMethodsCount + 0x21c
    17 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900246e8 _pthread_body + 0x28

    Thread 5:
    0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900074c8 mach_msg_trap + 0x8
    1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90007018 mach_msg + 0x38
    2 libjvm.dylib 0x9249a808 JVM_NewInstance + 0x1f38
    3 libjvm.dylib 0x924a2a20 JVM_ArrayCopy + 0x4d0
    4 libjvm.dylib 0x924b8b48 JVM_MonitorNotify + 0x778
    5 libjvm.dylib 0x924b97a8 JVM_MonitorWait + 0xd8
    6 <<00000000>> 0x0f10a680 0 + 0xf10a680
    7 <<00000000>> 0x0f10868c 0 + 0xf10868c
    8 <<00000000>> 0x0f1085cc 0 + 0xf1085cc
    9 <<00000000>> 0x0f1085cc 0 + 0xf1085cc
    10 <<00000000>> 0xa24a3720 _ZTSSt13bad_exception + 0x6e7c
    11 libjvm.dylib 0x9249808c JVM_CurrentTimeMillis + 0x136c
    12 libjvm.dylib 0x924cd518 JVM_GetCPClassNameUTF + 0x1798
    13 libjvm.dylib 0x924d2ce4 JVM_FindClassFromClass + 0x9e4
    14 libjvm.dylib 0x924ec170 JVM_IsSameClassPackage + 0xfc0
    15 libjvm.dylib 0x924e66d8 JVM_GetMethodIxExceptionTableEntry + 0x2058
    16 libjvm.dylib 0x92577054 JVM_UnloadLibrary + 0x85c4
    17 libjvm.dylib 0x924fdc9c JVM_GetClassMethodsCount + 0x21c
    18 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900246e8 _pthread_body + 0x28

    Thread 6:
    0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900074c8 mach_msg_trap + 0x8
    1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90007018 mach_msg + 0x38
    2 libjvm.dylib 0x9249a89c JVM_NewInstance + 0x1fcc
    3 libjvm.dylib 0x924a1a04 JVM_GetClassLoader + 0x1824
    4 libjvm.dylib 0x924a17a4 JVM_GetClassLoader + 0x15c4
    5 libjvm.dylib 0x924fdc9c JVM_GetClassMethodsCount + 0x21c
    6 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900246e8 _pthread_body + 0x28

    Thread 7:
    0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900074c8 mach_msg_trap + 0x8
    1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90007018 mach_msg + 0x38
    2 libjvm.dylib 0x9249a808 JVM_NewInstance + 0x1f38
    3 libjvm.dylib 0x924b9f70 JVM_FillInStackTrace + 0x310
    4 libjvm.dylib 0x92553b20 JVM_InitProperties + 0x1b10
    5 libjvm.dylib 0x92553920 JVM_InitProperties + 0x1910
    6 libjvm.dylib 0x92577054 JVM_UnloadLibrary + 0x85c4
    7 libjvm.dylib 0x924fdc9c JVM_GetClassMethodsCount + 0x21c
    8 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900246e8 _pthread_body + 0x28

    Thread 8:
    0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900074c8 mach_msg_trap + 0x8
    1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90007018 mach_msg + 0x38
    2 libjvm.dylib 0x9249a808 JVM_NewInstance + 0x1f38
    3 libjvm.dylib 0x924b9f70 JVM_FillInStackTrace + 0x310
    4 libjvm.dylib 0x924e22b0 JVM_StartThread + 0x580
    5 libjvm.dylib 0x924d0e04 JVM_FindLoadedClass + 0xa44
    6 libjvm.dylib 0x92577054 JVM_UnloadLibrary + 0x85c4
    7 libjvm.dylib 0x924fdc9c JVM_GetClassMethodsCount + 0x21c
    8 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900246e8 _pthread_body + 0x28

    Thread 9:
    0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90018be8 semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap + 0x8
    1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9000e788 _pthread_cond_wait + 0x268
    2 libnspr4.dylib 0x0301df04 PR_WaitCondVar + 0x124
    3 libxpcom.dylib 0x070565b0 _ZN11TimerThread3RunEv + 0x1e0
    4 libxpcom.dylib 0x070531ac _ZN8nsThread4MainEPv + 0x3c
    5 libnspr4.dylib 0x030275d4 PR_GetSP + 0x6b4
    6 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900246e8 _pthread_body + 0x28
     
  14. Fredstar thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Fredstar

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Location:
    Near London
    #14
    PPC Thread State:
    srr0: 0x90190b2c srr1: 0x0000f030 vrsave: 0x00000000
    cr: 0x44002224 xer: 0x20000000 lr: 0x90190b14 ctr: 0x90190b08
    r0: 0x01a17720 r1: 0xf0864780 r2: 0x44002224 r3: 0x00000008
    r4: 0x00000008 r5: 0x09926680 r6: 0x06d42350 r7: 0x01a1657c
    r8: 0x09926680 r9: 0xa01905f4 r10: 0x00000000 r11: 0x01a2219c
    r12: 0x90190b08 r13: 0x01d16ec0 r14: 0x01d0d1c0 r15: 0x8f0232fc
    r16: 0xf08648a0 r17: 0x6c0b0600 r18: 0xf0864904 r19: 0xf0864888
    r20: 0x6c0b19a0 r21: 0x6c0b0628 r22: 0x6c0b0628 r23: 0xf0864b80
    r24: 0xf0864dc4 r25: 0x6c01bc48 r26: 0xf0864b50 r27: 0x00000008
    r28: 0x09926680 r29: 0x00000008 r30: 0x06d42350 r31: 0x90190b14
     
  15. Fredstar thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Fredstar

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Location:
    Near London
    #15
    Binary Images Description:
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    0x90190000 - 0x9023dfff com.apple.CoreFoundation 6.3.6 (299.33) /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation
    0x90280000 - 0x904f9fff com.apple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 10.3.6 (10.3.5) /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore
    0x90570000 - 0x905dffff com.apple.framework.IOKit 1.3.6 (???) /System/Library/Frameworks/IOKit.framework/Versions/A/IOKit
    0x90610000 - 0x9069afff com.apple.CoreServices.OSServices 3.0.1 /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices
    0x90700000 - 0x90700fff com.apple.CoreServices 10.3 (???) /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices
    0x90720000 - 0x90787fff com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 2.1.2 /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreAudio.framework/Versions/A/CoreAudio
    0x907f0000 - 0x907f9fff com.apple.DiskArbitration 2.0.4 /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskArbitration.framework/Versions/A/DiskArbitration
    0x90810000 - 0x90810fff com.apple.ApplicationServices 1.0 (???) /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ApplicationServices
    0x90830000 - 0x9089ffff libobjc.A.dylib /usr/lib/libobjc.A.dylib
    0x90910000 - 0x90983fff com.apple.DesktopServices 1.2.3 /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DesktopServicesPriv.framework/Versions/A/DesktopServicesPriv
    0x909f0000 - 0x90b4bfff com.apple.Foundation 6.3.5 (500.56) /System/Library/Frameworks/Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation
    0x90c30000 - 0x90c4afff libGL.dylib /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib
    0x90c60000 - 0x90cc2fff libGLU.dylib /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLU.dylib
    0x90d00000 - 0x90d1bfff com.apple.SystemConfiguration 1.7.1 (???)
    Ok that is most of the end bit, but again i can't copy and paste it all
     
  16. Fredstar thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Fredstar

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Location:
    Near London
    #16
    Thread 21 Crashed:
    0 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x90190b2c CFRelease + 0x24
    1 <<00000000>> 0xf0864b50 0 + 0xf0864b50
    2 com.apple.JavaAppletPlugin 0x01a17720 main + 0x57c
    3 <<00000000>> 0x0f10a680 0 + 0xf10a680
    4 <<00000000>> 0x0f10868c 0 + 0xf10868c
    5 <<00000000>> 0x0f10868c 0 + 0xf10868c
    6 <<00000000>> 0x0f10886c 0 + 0xf10886c
    7 <<00000000>> 0x0f10868c 0 + 0xf10868c
    8 <<00000000>> 0x0f10886c 0 + 0xf10886c
    9 <<00000000>> 0xa24a3720 _ZTSSt13bad_exception + 0x6e7c
    10 libjvm.dylib 0x9249808c JVM_CurrentTimeMillis + 0x136c
    11 libjvm.dylib 0x924cd518 JVM_GetCPClassNameUTF + 0x1798
    12 libjvm.dylib 0x924d2ce4 JVM_FindClassFromClass + 0x9e4
    13 libjvm.dylib 0x924ec170 JVM_IsSameClassPackage + 0xfc0
    14 libjvm.dylib 0x924e66d8 JVM_GetMethodIxExceptionTableEntry + 0x2058
    15 libjvm.dylib 0x92577054 JVM_UnloadLibrary + 0x85c4
    16 libjvm.dylib 0x924fdc9c JVM_GetClassMethodsCount + 0x21c
    17 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900246e8 _pthread_body + 0x28

    That was the only thread with crashed next to it so maybe that is the problem bit
     
  17. GorillaPaws macrumors 6502a

    GorillaPaws

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    #17
    It worked for me once on my iMac 800, but I guess my chip was REALLY wonky because nothing worked right at all. Repair guy said may be due to too much direct sunlight. Could that have been right? or do memory chips sometimes just freak out and go bad? Anyways, replaced the chip and it's been working w/out incident for the past 2 years. I still get the odd app crash every now and again, but that's life.
     
  18. yellow Moderator emeritus

    yellow

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #18
    Fredster: Looks to me like that FireFox crash was a java crash. Assuming it's not a hardware problem, it could be either poorly implemented Java on the website, or there's a bug in Apple's java implementation. They key is, can you reproduce it? If you can, it's a bug, if you can't, then it makes your troubleshooting much more difficult.

    Gorilla: Yes, RAM can go bad. I'm not an electrical engineer, so any explanation for it that I give will not necessarily be accurate. But substandard parts or substandard workman ship (read: cheap RAM) can contribute to a stick's failure. Excess dust in your computer, poor ventilation, static electricity, are all other factors that could contribute to RAM going bad. Sometimes RAM is crap to begin with, but if it's underutilized by the OS/apps because there's lots of 'functional' RAM in-line before it, you might not see it effecting your stability on a consistent basis.
     
  19. trbgln2 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    #19
    apple hardware CD Does (sometimes) work


    Actually, the hardware CD is useful,
    it caught a defective modem, and another time a defective graphics card.
    It also detected bad memory in the extended mode.
    However, I do have to agree that one CANNOT rely on it to be sure to detect defective memory. It failed to detect some bad memory in some instances.
    Preview should be pretty stable, unless it's a bad document, which
    could cause it to crash, not impossible.\
    That some applications like Firefox are crashing is not exceptional.
    Safari keeps crashing on some web pages as well.

    Nevertheless, some of the flakyness observed here might be due to bad memory. So, removing it and seeing how it goes might be worthwhile.

    bw t
     

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