"Why do Macs suck?" - hardcore fan

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by Demon, Apr 27, 2006.

  1. Demon macrumors regular

    Demon

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Location:
    on earth
    #1
    just wanted to post a message and fume.. I love macs. have been on the apple since the Apple IIe. wayyy back.
    now is it me or did the mac quality drop? my last powerbook 5300 had a motherboard that burnt up (fixed free of charge), my ibook had faulty screens (can be fixed under the apple recall), and now my powerbook G4 has a failing HD. my iBook stopped working right after the 3 year warranty ended and they are charging me 400 USD to get it fixed... ridiculous. so i have a new powerbook. used it for a year, and today... the computer will no longer start up. that's AFTER half a year of repeated reinstalling the entire OS X. i've done that 3 times... sucks so bad.
    my parent's Powermac dual also broke down and had to be reinstalled.
    so what's up Apple? quit making crap and make something with quality.
    man, i'm just mad and i know that all computer hardware breaks down, but still... 3 in a row? i'm sticking to my Mac mini for now... no more laptops for a while! good luck, everone else... :mad:
     
  2. x86isslow macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Location:
    USA
    #2
    My Powerbook HD also died. As did those of several members of the UMass Mac User Group. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a class-action at some point.
     
  3. mvc macrumors 6502a

    mvc

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    Location:
    Outer-Roa
    #3
    Cursed?

    Well Demon, maybe you are cursed to doom and bad luck because of your username.

    Demons are supposed to be tortured and unhappy aren't they?

    ;)
     
  4. MajereXYU macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    #4
    Just a quick note.

    Laptops are all about compromise.

    Sure, they are useful, small, portable (obviously) and look good but they also are prone to breaking.

    What I mean is they are more fragile than your average desktop computer for a number of reasons.

    -Miniature hardware
    -All stuffed into a really small enclosure where heat buildup is huge (compared to desktops).
    -Heat kills computer hardware (especially hard drives).
    -Gets carried around a lot and bumped/dropped in certain cases.
    -Gets from warm indoors to cold outdoors while hardware is still hot (in certain cases, at least it does here in freezing Canada).

    So for all these reasons and more, laptops are more prone to breaking than desktops. Still failure rates should be expected to stay within reason i.e: HD failure in first few months should not happen...

    Also, remember that Apple does not manufacture Hard Drives, Optical Drives etc... They outsource them (meaning they buy them from companies that manufacture them.)

    For example, the Seagate Hard Drive in my iMac died within the first 2 weeks of me having bought my iMac.

    Whose fault is it?

    Apple's?
    -No. I just got a bad drive and even if Apple tested the drive before shipping out the system, they couldn't know it was going to fail.

    Seagate's?
    -No They have a good reputation, usually back their drives with a 5 year warranty when bought by themselves. Manufacturing defects just occur. That's life.

    So in the end, don't blame Apple for products they don't manufacture, unless you want to blame them for putting together crappy components.
    If the reason why the Hard Drives in Macs were always dieing was because Apple was using X brand and said brand was known to be crap... then you could blame them for using bad parts.

    Blaming the Apple for an outsourced part's failure would be like buying a Toyota, going out and getting a flat and saying that Toyota cars are bad quality when obviously Toyota doesn't manufacture the tires on their cars.

    Sorry for the long-winded post but I wanted to illustrate the difference between laptop and general tower desktop systems and I also wanted to clear up the issue of system builders like Apple being pointed for hard drive failures or such.

    So please don't say Macs suck just because you had a couple bad experiences, Computer Hardware is sensitive, fragile equipment and failures do happen. But keep in mind that a compact, all-in one computer like an iMac or any laptop will be even more sensitive to those issues.
    If you want a bullet-proof system (as far as HD life goes), you need to have the HD(s) in a tower with good ventilation. That does not mean every iMac/laptop is doomed to HD failures in 1year but as a rule of thumb any temperature over 40C is bad for hard drives.
     
  5. dailo macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    #5
    I was always a mac hater until OS X. I always loved the hardware, but not a great fan of the OS. But wow when OS X came out I was blown away, all the things I hated about Mac OS were gone and so many more features than windows. It's really really stable. As soon as a windows solution was available for the new intel macs, I have to run some windows only apps, I bought a MBP right away. My friends still make fun of me for being a mac fan, but boy do I love my MBP. The operating system is awesome, only thing I dont' like coming from windows is the single button track pad, but nothing an external mouse won't fix.

    I haven't used Windows in a few weeks now and I couldn't be happier. Can't wait for Leopard!
     
  6. gman71882 macrumors 6502

    gman71882

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Location:
    Houston, Tx
    #6
    Any HD Failure really has nothing to do with APPLE - They get the HD's from other manufacturers... Western digital, seagate, etc.
    Apple designs everything and then bids out the process to manufacturers to be produced.
     
  7. R.Youden macrumors 68020

    R.Youden

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    #7
    I don’t want to annoy anyone here but the Apple fan boys are back.

    If you buy an Apple product and it is faulty then it IS Apples fault. If you go along with your argument then only software problems are actual faults that Apple are responsible for. Apple will not make any hardware. People should wake up and get their head out of the sand. Apple do make crap every now and again, they do make mistakes and a sign of a good company is how they deal with the users complaints. I had a problem with my iPod and people on here said that I was being too picky because my phone interfered with my click wheel. That is Apples fault for choosing a supplier who had not done proper R & D.
     
  8. pknz macrumors 68020

    pknz

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Location:
    NZ
    #8
    Things aren't made like they were used too. We live in a whatsermccall it society where we replace things every so often. Hence things aren't made to last as they used to. Also technology is on a minimising trend everything is being made smaller to fit into smaller enclosures etc...

    But yea, by the sounds things aren't improving and Apple is usually known for superior quality.
     
  9. Willy S macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    #9
    Apple´s biggest design problem is the *heat issue* at least in my 2 iMacs. Other got a new logic board under warranty, but they are both too hot to last for a long time, and they are not quiet. Apple could have used a higher quality fan IMO and therefore I wouldn´t classify the iMacs as a "high quality computers."

    But I guess most Apple´s customers don´t have a clue about hardware issues and want just a fancy looking computer even though the quietness and long term stability has been sacrificed by the looks.

    However, I´m that dissatisfied overall and I´m not going to sell my iMacs because their resale value is quite little, around 40-50% of the price when they were new a year ago.
     
  10. HiRez macrumors 603

    HiRez

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Location:
    Western US
    #10
    PowerBook quality goes up and down. Yes, the 5300 had problems. But the Wallstreets were tough (if heavy). The Lombard and Pismo machines were fabulous, and my 800 MHz Titanium has been a real rock (I was worried when I bought it four years ago because it looked so thin and fragile). But I've had many people personally tell me they've had problems with their Alumininum PowerBooks and the MacBook Pro is getting some mixed reviews right now. I'm waiting for the next generation, or at least next major revision of the MBP. Never buy the first generation of an Apple line if you want reliability, unless you buy it later as a refurb after you know what issues it has and decide you can live with them (my refurbed Rev. A dual 2.0 G5 has been great).
     
  11. TBi macrumors 68030

    TBi

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    Location:
    Ireland
    #11
    I knew a guy who had constant trouble with broken hard drives. Always complaining how bad the quality was because they broke on him every so often. I found out why when i went to his house. If windows crashed he would whack the tower. If he wanted to get into the system he'd put the tower on its side, albeit not gently. I shuddered when i heard the thunk it made hitting the desk. This is while the computer was on.

    I explained in the nicest way possible that hard drives are basically plates of glass with a thin layer of a magnetic substance on them. Also about how the heads can scratch the disks.

    He hasn't had a single hard drive failure since.
     
  12. Demon thread starter macrumors regular

    Demon

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Location:
    on earth
    #12
    i do agree with everyone's comments on the fact that Mac's HDs are outsourced, but i think R. Youden has a point about the choices of components. bad luck? 3 in a row? i don't think so... not when more than half of my friends' iBooks die before 3 years is over. problem is, getting them fixed is so expensive. I'll be bringing my pBook in tomorrow right after work.. we'll see how much that will cost.
    the last iBook problem? they said it will cost at LEAST 500 USD to fix... to replace the video card which is means the mother board will have to be replaced as well. why? i don't know.. and i don't care. all i know is that it's more than half the price of a brand new laptop.
    lesson learned? back up your data. luckily i've been using the "BACK UP" in .Mac and put everything in an external HD.

    I agree. heat kills the HD... so maybe i'll be switching to the all mighty tower sooner than later...? :confused:
     
  13. WinterMute Moderator emeritus

    WinterMute

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Location:
    London, England
    #13
    It's always really frustrating when we get a duff product, Apple or not, as we invest a lot of time and energy in our choice of computer especially a laptop, its a personal thing.

    The bottom line is that stuff breaks and there are many reasons for the breakage, some of which are Apples fault, some ours and some just blind luck.

    Apple provide a warranty to cover the most likely of the breakdowns, but you'll get short shrift if you phone Applecare because you dumped a can of Coke into your MacBook.

    Apple fixed a number of the OP's problems as part of a warranty program, but I really don't think a 3 year old machine, just out of warranty or not, can be considered a failure. It broke, if it's economical to fix then fix it and pay the price. If not buy something else.

    I'm not a fanboy, I'm a realist, I have a 3 year old 17" PowerBook that's starting to show signs of wear and tear, it gets lugged across London everyday and it's been a workhorse, I guess that's call 'fitness for purpose".

    We always hear more from the people with problems, rightly so, but it's a distortion of the reality to say that Apples suck because some of them break.

    As ever it's personal choice, if you think Apple's portables are too flimsy, go by a Dell Toughbook (there are 3 dead ones in a cupboard in my office if your interested).
     
  14. netdog macrumors 603

    netdog

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Location:
    London
    #14
    Anybody who buys a laptop without a warranty extended to 3 years is mad. I made that mistake once. Never again. That applies to Apples and to all the rest.
     
  15. WinterMute Moderator emeritus

    WinterMute

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Location:
    London, England
    #15
    No argument here, that's why it's available, and it's now free to Edu purchasers in the UK!
     
  16. netdog macrumors 603

    netdog

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Location:
    London
    #16
    Is it free to edu purchasers or just to HE purchasers?
     
  17. WinterMute Moderator emeritus

    WinterMute

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Location:
    London, England
    #17
    I'm pretty sure it's all Edu customers, although I'm HE, so I haven't checked FE or secondary offers for a while.
     
  18. netdog macrumors 603

    netdog

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Location:
    London
    #18
    At the Apple Store for Education site, they are showing MacBook Pros with 90 days, and an Apple Care 3-year extension at £231.48 - ouch!
     
  19. howesey macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    #19
    Just curious if you know how a computer works?


    http://hamsterrepublic.com/james/technomancy/



    :eek:
     
  20. Demon thread starter macrumors regular

    Demon

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Location:
    on earth
    #20
    well, it's good to hear everyone's opinion on the durability of your laptops. i agree that portability has a price and that's life expectancy. unfortunately, my 5300 lasted less than 3 months before it burnt up (but fixed fixed at no cost, thank goodness), my iBook 12" had screen problems after 1 year, and my pBook 12" had HD failure at less than 1 year as well. probably just my luck, and the fact that i take them everywhere i go. being a doctor at a large hospital, you never know what "virus" may infect the computer :)

    in anycase, this fuming seemed to have worked and got a decent conversation going. as i said, i'll be bringing in the computer right after work tomorrow and see what's up on the prices.

    2 things i'd like to ask:
    1. how many of you go for, and live by, the 3 year extended warranty?
    2. do you believe that the iMac will have similiar problems due to the compact design? especially with the new Duo Core?

    thanks guys.
     
  21. aristobrat macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    #21
    I agree that Apple is at fault with your issue, but I don't understand what you expect them to do to guarantee that a properly vetted part (like a Seagate or Western Digital) drive will never fail.
     
  22. MS bulldog macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    #22
    to the imac,

    why doesn't apple go with a tower design rather than the all in one form factor? i am new to apple products but i know the only tower looking item on their home page is the really expensive pimp rig.

    why would a company be willing to risk heat and noise issues (two major ones in the world of computers) just to give us something stylish? i like the stylish stuff, but if you were to give me the option with all the pros and cons of the all in one vs tower design, i would go along with the more practical design (tower) over the one that puts my 1.5K+ nvestment at risk.
     
  23. yellow Moderator emeritus

    yellow

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #23
    The tower design for the x86 is still forth coming.
     
  24. miniConvert macrumors 68040

    miniConvert

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Location:
    Kent, UK - the 'Garden of England'.
    #24
    1. I bought AppleCare. Computers break, and Apple's innovative form factors probably don't make life any easier on the components. I buy a three year warranty with all my computing equipment, if it is available, from the manufacturer. It's an absolute must.

    2. The iMac design is quite compact, but not exactly ultra compact. It's using a mobile CPU and mid-range graphics so I can't see any blatent cause of problems coming from heat. There's no guarantee you wont get a dudd though, my first Mac mini (Intel Core Duo) was dead, second one is awesome.
     
  25. aristobrat macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    #25
    I buy my computers with my American Express card. They (like many others) double the manufacturers warranty for free.

    I have troubles "not upgrading" to a new system every two years anyways, so I can't justify the price of a 3-year extended warranty.
     

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