Why does the government know better than I?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Backtothemac, Jul 3, 2004.

  1. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    San Destin Florida
    #1
    What to do with my money? Why should I support someone that wants to take more of my money and give it to those that don't have money. Why? I have never had someone explain it to me well.

    Because I should want to help others? Nope. I came from a poor family, we never had governmental assistance. Because we would have been ashamed to take it. We worked hard to get where we are, and now Kerry wants to take take take.

    WTF. Personally, I think Bush has been to soft on taxes. Why in the hell should someone have to give over 30% of their income to the government, much less, why should they even have to give more than 10%. It is crap!

    Sorry, rant from angry republican on the notion that his taxes may go up, and force him to work an additional 5 to 10 years to retire because of unfair, and unjustified taxes, and redistribution of wealth.
     
  2. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #2
    You are fortunate as well as hard-working. Some are not.

    There's something to do with math there: if your government wants to spend 500 billion dollars on what it laughingly calls "defense", it's going to have to tax you to do so. If you cut back on this ludicrously extravagant budget predicated on a megolomaniacal desire to take on the entire world if necessary, there would be plenty of scope for tax cuts. As it stands, you should be paying considerably more than 30% to achieve a balanced budget. It's only because the rest of the world is lending you money hand over fist that you are able to afford to threaten them. Funny, that.
     
  3. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #3
    Ah, but their is the point. I don't have a problem paying for defense. I have a problem paying for after school programs. For social security, for medicare, for state funded abortions, for pork barrel projects, etc.

    When will people stop asking for the government to fix their lives?
     
  4. Mav451 macrumors 68000

    Mav451

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Maryland
    #4
    Some reason...the tone of your response reflects a lot of the reasoning that Republicans use to argue AGAINST environmental responsibility -_-.

    Why should we protect the earth? Because you're not the only one living on it! Because you want it to be as safe (chemical wise), clean (air quality), full of life (would you rather see trees, or skyscrapers outside your window) as you had when you were a child?

    Alot of Republican hostility against environmental responsibility is shared in financial selfishness...and this is generally expected so I'm not really suprised. What I am suprised about is that you posted in another thread that you do want fuel alternatives--that shows an effort toward environmental responsibility, that oddly enough, is not reflected in your other opinions. How are you so split in your ideals? I mean essentially you are FINANCIALLY conservative, but by that statement you are showing to be ENVIRONMENTALLY liberal -- which is points in my book, but confusing by your other statements...I'm a lil puzzled.
     
  5. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #5

    Well, I am a fiinancial conservative, and a liberal on many issues. I am confusing, but I am fun ;)
     
  6. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    PDX
    #6
    Ah, but BTTM, you need to defend society from itself as much as from outside threats. People do not succeed in America in a vacuum. Many of the (invisible) aspects of social-spending give people such as yourself the stepping-stones to reach independent success. If only, in the bare-minimum of ensuring some measure of societal stability. There is a post around somewhere that illustrates this point, if I find it I will post it. These segments of the population that you feel are unfairly subsidized by your tax-dollars, will not simply disappear if cut-off from aid, and may pose serious burdens on the rest of the population, from either a practical or moral standpoint.

    On a completely different note:
    Nice to see you posting around here again...and when will you have pictures of your new digs posted?
     
  7. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #7

    Hopefully pics of the house will be up soon. I am itching for you guys to see them. As for society, sure, tax dollars pay for police, fire, etc. But does it need to pay for studies of the mating habits of Alaskan Caraboo? My family never took government assistance. Even after my mother was diagnosed with cancer, we never took financial help. I started working 2 jobs when I was 12 so that I could help my mom out. She worked, and we made it. I just don't think people need free rides.
     
  8. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #8
    And there we have a problem. I have a problem with a bloated defense budget. I have a problem with the government bailing out private enterprise. I have a problem with faith based initiatives being paid with my tax dollar. I have a problem that you get extra deductions if you have children. I too have a problem with pork barrel projects.

    But one man's pork is another mans needs (for pork projects vary greatly, so it is hard to know what the rant is about).

    I have no problem with after school programs. My payroll dollars contributed to social security and medicare.

    Maybe when the government gets out of taking sides in the religious debate of who should get married. Maybe when the government realizes that the Constitution said that "all men are created equal", not just the ones you like. Maybe when they bring back the draft so that the military looks like the nation as a whole, not the hard hit cities and rural areas.
     
  9. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #9
    Sorry to be insulting, but I know I will. Have you ever served? Then don't believe what the statics say. I have no problem with the draft, and in fact I support it as manditory for every able male. As for who marry's who. Look. You are argueing the morality of laws. If that is the case then is it moral to force someone to take their money and use that money to fund the lives of other people? Is that not theft? I agree with you, I am 100% for gay marriage, I think gay people have the right to be just as miserable as the rest of us. But social programs that are funded by my tax dollars. No. Raising my taxes to fund John Kerry's programs, no. Even after the Bush cuts, I still am paying far more than I morally should.

    So if this is a moral issue as you are making it, then are taxes not the most imorral action the government can take against it's people?
     
  10. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #10
    It would be interesting to create a world where your view was what was done and see how you felt about all the uneducated, homeless, hungry, sick, and dying people all around; possibly including yourself.
     
  11. jihad the movie macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2003
    Location:
    Smugtown, NY
    #11

    Just like how you don't want to pay taxes because you were poor, and worked for your current place in life, I don't want to have to go to war and get killed or maimed after all I have worked for. I worked my ass off for 4 years just so I could get into the college I am to attend in the fall. The program I got into only accepts seven people as incoming freshmen. (Jewelry making/metalsmithing in case you were curious) I don't want to be a Sophomore in College and get pulled out for a war. I don't want to come back from Iraq with a missing arm, and not be able to finish my studies.

    However, I would be 100% satisfied with some sort of "national" service, where I would have to take two years off and help to fix problems in America, do some sort of Environmental Conservation, help ailing inner city areas, or take care of the elderly, anything really.

    Also, based on my internal convictions, I feel that killing another person is wrong, regardless of what he or she has done. So I don't think I would be cut out for being a soldier. Some people are, I am not. Let them draft somebody who is ready to do that, and let them draft me to do something that does not involve killing.

    That's all.
     
  12. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    Jan 11, 2002
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    Los Angeles
    #13
    I don't have a problem w/a well-regulated welfare system nor do I mind funding defense spending. And if after school programs can give kids a bright light and an alternative to joining a gang and head-hunting cops for the hell of it I'm for that too.

    I do have a problem, though, of my money being wasted on people that are just to damn lazy to work and milk the system. I think there needs to be more done to ensure that those who truly need a temporary helping hand get it and those that are just lazy get jack.

    BTTM, your family was able to rally together and make it, but not every one has a family like that. Or a family at all. Or people have a run of bad luck that is just devistating. Shouldn't these people be given a change to get back on their feet? I'm not talking about a free ride, but I mean temporary help until they get going again.


    Lethal
     
  13. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #14
    you might want to look up current statistics about who is on welfare. It is quite enlightening.
     
  14. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #16

    That is funny.
     
  15. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

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    2nd star on the right and straight till morning
    #17
    sounds like you're suffering from PMS--post mortgage syndrome. :D did you just get your first supplemental tax bill?

    anyhoo...i think the u.s. would be a much better place if they let us choose how our tax dollars are spent. those that want to allocate their $$ to defense can....and those that choose other projects can do so. if the military only gets $63.95, thats their budget for the year. it's funny that pure capitalism touts voting with your wallet but we can't do that when our government holds the purse strings. just remember, all our tax expenditures are decided by politicians with amazing health benefits who also don't contribute to SS...and yet have outstanding retirement plans.

    btw, there is an interesting documentary called " an act of conscience" about tax protesters who donate their tax dollars to their choice of charities instead of the federal government. as you would expect, the IRS descended on them pretty hard but in the end the protesters came out o.k....and they still refuse to pay taxes.
     
  16. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #18
    What about paying for offense? When has Bush used his vastly expensive "defense" spending to defend US soil?

    I"m sorry you feel that way. I think the children of our nation need all the education and supplemental enrichment we can give them. And unless we want to fall further behind the world standard, we must give them more.

    Our society is built upon the promise of the future, and the future is built upon the nation's children and their education.

    Okay:

    1) Social Security has been screwed because Congress can't keep their paws off the cash in the fund. If not for that, it'd be in good shape.
    It's a good idea to keep our elderly out of the gutter, no?

    2) Medicare

    It's a good idea to keep people from dying just because they can't afford heathcare, no?

    3)State funded abortions

    Do they have them in your State? If not, then why complain to a national audience?

    If they do, then you have a much better chance of getting rid of them because state representatives are much more reflexive to individual voters than federal reps.

    I know neighboring boroughs that have silly zoning laws and some that have bike helmet laws, and I don't give a **** because I don't live there and the regulations don't affect me.

    4) Pork

    I agree.

    When society helps those who need it out of the kindness of their hearts and the recognises that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

    I don't think many people ask the government to fix their lives. That hasn't been my experience in life. I wonder where you get this notion from.

    Moreover, I wonder where you get the idea that Kerry would increase our taxes. Unless you've recently joined the upper-middle class, I doubt you'd even notice a reversal of GW's (record deficit-causing) tax cuts.
     
  17. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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  18. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #20
    I read a story where a family purposefully keeps their income below the taxable level so they do not have to pay any taxes so they know none of their money is going to things like killing people in the Middle East.

    Talk about sacrifice.
     
  19. pooky macrumors 6502

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    #21
    Americorps or Peace Corps.
     
  20. wordmunger macrumors 603

    wordmunger

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    North Carolina
    #22
    I had a hard time finding an unbiased source, but I did find a world tax table here. After scanning it briefly, it looks like it would be hard to find a place you could move to in order to find lower taxes. Perhaps Saudi Arabia or Singapore. The U.S. has some of the lowest tax rates in the world, but you might prefer one of these two oppressive regimes. However, with all the deficit spending the U.S. is doing now to fund the war in Iraq, it may be inevitable that a future administration might raise taxes, so the time to leave just might be now.
     
  21. themadchemist macrumors 68030

    themadchemist

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    Chi Town
    #23
    It's simple. In exchange for services necessary for the operation of the nation, you pay taxes.

    You like not getting robbed all the time? Thank your taxes.
    You like how there's a fire dept.? Thank your taxes.
    You like how there are roads on which to drive? Yep.
    How about defending you in a dangerous world? Well, sort of.
    School for your children? Yes!

    And so what if some of your tax money is going to help your fellow citizens? The government doesn't just look out for YOU, it looks out for 300,000,000 people. If you're so fortunate as to be better off than most, then you have a duty to pull more weight.

    People gripe about taxes and yet expect to live in a safe and happy nation. Well, I guess all that's important is that the wealthy people are safe and happy. Goodness knows they don't care to look out for those who are less fortunate.

    :mad:
     
  22. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    San Destin Florida
    #24
    You guys are missing my point. I don't have a problem with State, or local taxes being whatever our elected officials make them. What I have a problem with is Washington taking over 35% of my income and giving it to those that would prefer to sit on their rear ends instead of bettering themselves.

    People point the finger at others and say they are keeping me from making it, and yet they don't do anything about it.

    I came from poor to be where I am. I did it without welfare, etc. If I can, anyone can.

    I don't have a problem helping those that can't help themselves. But as an example. A lady came into the store to get 5, yes 5 ****ing cellphones. For her and her family. We get to the credit app. She doesn't have a drivers license because of her DUI's. She has a state ID. So, when I ask for her work number, nope. Doesn't have one. Meanwhile her 7, yes 7 kids are running around my store like hellions. AND SHE IS PREGNANT WITH NUMBER 8! Guess what? She is a 1,000 deposit on each line. Why, because she has never paid a bill in her life. And she lives on? Anyone? Buler? WELFARE AND SOCIAL SECURITY!

    That is what I am tired of, that is what is BS. Why should I pay for that person to live? Nuts, truely nuts.
     
  23. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    Jan 1, 2004
    #25

    1) you are not everyone. You are you. The above is a lame argument.
    2) Check the stats about welfare it is quite enlightening.
    3) I don't want a penny of my money going to pay people who are too lazy to get a real job and go into the military so they can kill people so I don't think any of my money should go to aggressive acts of war!
     

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