Why I don't want to switch to Mac (even when I love Mac design so much)

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by mocca, Aug 27, 2003.

  1. mocca macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2003
    #1
    I love Apple design. They tends to have great design for everything. But everytime I think about switching to Mac (I'm definitely a PC guy by every standard), I cannot make up my mind. After reading through many articles, try many apple computer (G4s mainly and yesterday G5), I come up with a set of conclusion as to why the switching campaign doesn't work for me.

    1) I used to think that MS is monopoly but the more I used Apple gears, the more I feel that Apple is even more monopoly than MS. MS is on a SW company and control SW part of the equation in the PC world. But apple control both HW ans SW. I cannot imagine what will happen if I find Apple support are not to my standard or to my likeness, can I change the company, change the producets, and what will happen to all the periherals I bought? In PC world, if I don't like, say Dell, I can goto other companies and still can keep my peripherals. If I don't like Windows, I can always install linux distro and still get most of the critical programs I need to work.

    2) The price/performance of the Apple computers just cannot compete to PC (even consider the top-end oem like IBM). This is especially true when it comes to laptop segments (the desktop part is getting better, thanks to the new G5 processor from IBM). For the same price as the highend 15"PB, I can get a top-end T40p from IBM which will perform upto twice as fast (I'm not j/k here). The one thing I find kind of disappointed at the new G5 is that I ran Cinebench on my T40 (1.6GHz P-M laptop) and my bench scores are better than the 1.6GHz G5 machine. Provided that the cinebench isn't optimized for the G5, it also isn't optimized for the new P-M processor either AFAIK. So the scores are quite disappointed (you cannot assume that everyone will use optimized sw on their G5, many of them will not be optimized for G5 for a long time).

    3) Choices in SW and HW is very limited for Apple. It is true that it is getting better than several years ago when I started using Mac for the first time. But the situation still looks very grim for Apple. Top SW tends to cater for PC because it have hugh maget shares. Top game developers always think of PC first except probably WC3 and NWN.

    4) I'm already hevily invested in the PC world. Their is no way that the benefits of switching to Apple will outweight the cost of buying new SW and HW.

    Bottom line is that the switching campaign doesn't work for me even though I really want to be convinced to switch to Mac for a long time. I cannot make up my mind to order a 15"PB why I can get a much better performance/support/ and probably design as well from IBM T40 series laptop.

    Mocca
     
  2. Powerbook G5 macrumors 68040

    Powerbook G5

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Location:
    St Augustine, FL
    #2
    It's your decision, if you don't want to switch, that's fine. I personally didn't see a reason why not to switch. Apple isn't a huge monopoly, sure, you can basically only run either OS X or Linux as a primary OS for the most part, but I love both so wouldn't have it any other way. Their designs are incredible, their software is top rate, and their quality is just amazing. As far as the costs of switching, it isn't that bad, at least not in my eyes. I had a load of Windows programs, but with the Mac, it didn't matter. With the iApps, you can replace expensive software for video editing, photo management, appointments, email, etc. I wouldn't need my $200 photo suite I bought for Windows, or my desktop publishing program for $70. If you get an iMac or eMac, you get Appleworks for free, and you can get FCE for only $99, which is an amazing deal, too. About 80% of all my software for my PC wasn't needed because it was free, built in, or unnecessary for the Mac. For the rest, you can get VPC to run any software that is PC only or keep your PC, for that matter. Besides, after a good year or two, you'll end up with your own library of Macintosh programs just from use and before long you might be saying you have more Mac stuff than useful PC stuff at that point. The prices are getting better, too. If you cannot afford $1200-1700 for an iMac, then get an eMac for half that price, or get an iBook for $800-1100, which is a great price for a laptop. You can even get a 12" PowerBook for around $1500. If you seriously want to switch on a budget, you can also go for the eBay solution and get a nice used Mac, and in many instances, they give you a bunch of extras including software, upgrades, or hardware with the purchase. It's your choice and if you seriously wanted to switch, it is fairly easy to do, but if not, then do what works for you. Maybe someday down the road Apple will finally do something that makes it a "must do" to switch, but until then, enjoy your PC.
     
  3. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #3
    thanks for sharing the thoughts many, many trolls or trollish newbies have come before you to tell us. (EDIT: ok, this was my bad - he's probably not a troll - sorry, boring day at work... packing the office for moving, rather annoying.)

    i have two words for you that make almost all of your points moot, as far as i'm concerned: OS X.

    i made my choice and you have your right to believe what you may. while i disagree with many aspects of your "points," i won't bother disputing them.

    i hope some thing in the future will make you switch, because i enjoy macs so much i can't imagine myself going back to PCs if i could help it, it would be nice for you to get the same experience. (what i mean by "if i could help it" is, say if i got a great job offer - i won't turn it down just because the said company don't use macs.)
     
  4. rhpenguin macrumors 6502a

    rhpenguin

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Location:
    London, Ontario
    #4
    Hey man, making the switch is personal prefrence. Im heavily into the PC world myself (MCSE & MCSA in Win2K A+ Net+, Linux+ and so on...) but i made the switch a few months ago. After fixing Windows boxes every day, its now the Mac that i want to go home to. Simply, not having to update my box every day for the latest windows security patches or virus updates is worth its weight in gold (granted when i used linux i didnt hvae to do that either). But having to reinstall my operating system every month because its so screwed up really is a godsend. OS X chugs along every day not loosing a bit of speed or crashing with tons of appz open also rocks.

    But hey, its up to you.

    Also for the record, i bought my first Mac in March.
     
  5. macktheknife macrumors 6502a

    macktheknife

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    #5
    mocca:

    I think most of your points are quite valid for someone in your situation. As difficult as it is for many Mac partisans to believe, a Mac is not for everyone.

    Here's my background: I had switched from a Dell and bought a beautiful 550 MHz TiBook back in January of 2002. I'm a financial analyst who wanted to surf the web, work with some spreadsheets, chat online, and even do some programming (I'm a Sun Certified Java Programmer). I love the TiBook's form factor, but I found the overall performance to be seriously lacking. Despite an upgrade to Jaguar, a fresh install, cleaning up permissions, and more than 512 MB of RAM, it was still considerably slower than PCs with vastly inferior specs. OS X was probably the culprit; although I generally like OS X, its eye candy consumed significant resources.

    After a year and a half of using my TiBook, I decided to switch back and bought myself a Gateway 450X with 512 MB of RAM and a 1.4 GHz Pentium-M processor. No, I don't love Windows XP or anything, but I don't think it's as bad as many Mac users believe. The Gateway 450X certainly is not as thin or as light as my TiBook (although its design is quite nice), it is a definite improvement over my TiBook in terms of performance and raw speed. I can surf the web, open several documents, and chat online without any noticeable hit on performance or with the fan turning on. On my TiBook, I would get the spinning beachball even if I were to open another tab on Safari--running any other programs simultaneously brings my TiBook to its knees. The great thing about my Gateway is that it only cost $1,650 (before taxes), significantly less than what my TiBook cost and what the next model will cost.

    I still admire Apple's engineering and design, and I may switch back in the future (which is why I still visit Macrumors to keep up on the latest news). However, I think that the old adage is true for anyone looking to buy a computer: assess your needs and buy a computer that will meet them. If a PC does it for you (as it did for me), then get a PC. If a Mac tickles your fancies (as it once did for me), then get a Mac.
     
  6. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Location:
    London, England
    #6
    Re: Why I don't want to switch to Mac (even when I love Mac design so much)

    I suppose you could say that Apple has a monopoly, but only to itself. They build the hardware and provide the user interface to make use of that hardware. But you can also get PPC editions of Linux distos.
    Apple support is up to anyone’s standard AFAIK. My Quicksilver died, I called AppleCare and it was collected, repaired, and returned with 48hrs! Not to shabby eh?

    Currently I’d agree that the 15” Ti does not offer value for money, the tech is outdated (SDRAM, not BT etc), but with an update these problems will be gone. I think that an updated Ti (the then AlBook) will offer good value for money (considering the whole package, OS X, iApps), and good performance.

    There are vast amounts of software for OS X, they’re just not as well known as their x86 counterparts. As for the hardware, Apple offer many model ranges, each with an intended end user market. Consumer: iBook, iMac, eMac. Power user: PowerBook, PowerMac, XServe. All of these come in various specs, I think this is a more than adequate range of hardware.

    Well, there’s nothing to say about this. True, all your apps will be useless, and probably some of your accessories, although some will work with OS X (printers, webcams etc)

    But yeah, it's up to you. I have very few problems with Windows XP myself, and it get's on my nerves when people slate it as if it was Win95. Windows has come along way and is a perfectly useable OS.
     
  7. iPC macrumors 6502

    iPC

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2003
    Location:
    East Windsor, CT
    #7
    Nice to see a mostly intelligent thread about the idea of switching platforms.

    As for your peripherals, most have been getting support under OS X, although not always directly from the vendor. It is similar to the situation with Linux, where the chipset is supported, but that particular vendor's name is not. There are many places to look for drivers. And not to mention that the driver base for OS X is growing all the time.

    In the professional business world, as well as the education world (sadly), there are more and more win32 only apps out there. VPC is a option, though a very slow one.

    A little googling and you should be able to determine if OS X can meet your needs, both for sw and for drivers of your peripherals. With the BSD backend of OS X, there are a lot of open source type options out there now. Much better than the OS 9 days. :D
     
  8. rhpenguin macrumors 6502a

    rhpenguin

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Location:
    London, Ontario
    #8
    No, Windows XP isnt that bad. Just theres a lot of security fixes and viruses floating around for it. That and the fact that you have to reinstall it often to keep it running at a useable pace is rubbish. other than that its a fine OS. Just OS X is for me.
     
  9. rueyeet macrumors 65816

    rueyeet

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Location:
    MD
    #9
    Re: Why I don't want to switch to Mac (even when I love Mac design so much)

    Microsoft is a monopoly because they use their marketshare to stifle the competition. Apple is a single-vendor integrated solution, where their products are designed to work best together--a strategy used for years by Sony, and now being adopted by Gateway and HP. There's a difference there.

    These days, many peripherals are cross-platform, since both Macs and PCs use USB and Firewire. I took the peripherals I'd been using with my ThinkPad and plugged them right into my Mac. And, as other posters noted, there are Linux distros available for the PPC architecture. I'm running Yellow Dog Linux on a spare iBook (though I don't have the time to play with it as much as I'd like).

    You've listed all your conclusions on why you won't switch, and they are valid ones. But given all that, I'm curious to know why you were contemplating the switch in the first place? If it's just the looks/design, over and above any other consideration, then best stick with the PC! :)
     
  10. whooleytoo macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2002
    Location:
    Cork, Ireland.
    #10
    Yup, your points are valid, and well put. If I might add a little to each in turn:

    1) I agree, in many ways Apple is as bad, if not worse, than Microsoft in the way each monopolises their market. I had to wince watching the WWDC keynote, seeing how Jobs demonstrated the iSight being so much better than the iBot, and XCode being so much 'faster' than CodeWarrior - he seemed to forget this was a developer conference, where Apple was supposed to show support for smaller Mac developers, not tout the superiority of Apple's products over them!

    On the other hand, Apple's adoption of open source is a good thing, for Apple, the customers, and the Mac's perception in the open source community.

    2) Apple's products have never been the cheapest, and likely never will be. If price is your primary criterium, you probably won't be buying a Mac. To me, the single proc G5's don't appear to be great value, but the dual is, considering the power you get. I think when you factor in the design, build quality and included software, they're not bad value (a different thing!). They'll never be 'great' value, with the margins Apple maintains.

    3) I think this point is sometimes over exaggerated. In most areas, the Mac is well served. For instance, if you consider 'tools', such as word processors, spreadsheets, graphics apps etc. How many of each do you need? One? Two? There are more than enough to keep most people happy.

    The only areas where Apple get hurt is in hardware/drivers (which is continually improving with Apple's adoption of standards, PCI, USB, etc) and what I call disposables (games, multimedia etc). Because people buy a lot of disposables, a bigger choice is required. It's always going to be difficult for Apple in this area, but in fairness, the Mac gaming market has never been this strong - and I've been Mac gaming since long before Lemmings being ported to the Mac was The Biggest News Ever! ;-)

    4) This is certainly a biggie. My only rebuttal would be, you probably won't need to invest in a lot of software if you bought a Mac, most of what you need comes free with it!
     
  11. noel4r macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
  12. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Location:
    London, England
    #12
    Wow, what a valuable post :rolleyes:
    He's not trolling, let's not treat him as such with stupid replys like this huh? That's not gonna convince him he should switch :rolleyes:
     
  13. King Cobra macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    #13
    mocca, do yourself a favor and discourage "noel4r"'s biased, unsupported and illegitament assessment of your viewpoints and analysis.

    You can easily tell who did their research comparing the two posts.

    Yet now that you have explained why you are not switching, I am wondering the point of this thread. Most arguments have already been started from the previous posters, and some suggestions for improvement have been made.

    But, don't forget, the G5 is very new. It has an underrated future, unlike the G4.
     
  14. mocca thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2003
    #14
    Thanks for everyone comment. There are many times that I'm really close of buying a TiPB. At least 4-5 times that I went to the Apple store and almost buy the AlPB or TiPB. Just cannot make up my mind. This have nothing to do with PC vs Mac as I really like the design of the Mac and the new G5 looks very impressive in general.

    About the SW, I find it hard to just step out of PC arena immediately espcially I coded for Windows and need Windows for everyday life. Despite the security problems with Windows, MS is getting better and once you know enough about computer and network security, this issue is no longer very big problem (except some situations of course). Ironically, there is a biology SW/tools that only exist in Mac that I have to use :) For some reasons, the biology and DNA research programs tends to be Mac oriented.

    May be in the future, I might switch to Mac. I admit that I like Apple design very much. I read many apple articles almost everyday. Watch SJ keynote many times in the last three years. I get really excited to the point that my gf look at me in a wierd way as to why I am so excited about watching some guys talking about computer :)

    Mocca

    P.S. I went to see the G5 tower yesterday. Like the case design a lot but the first impression is "the case is really huge". It might just be a perception thing since the genius set the G5 tower on the desk so it is closer to my eyes but it is really huge but very beautiful :)

    Edit: Typos
     
  15. legion macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2003
    #15
    I too have a T40p and performance-wise, I haven't seen any other laptop to match it (and if the rumours are true with no 970 PB or a sub 1.8Ghz 970 being used for a PB, the T40p will still beat it easily.)

    That being said, I'm tri-platform (Linux, XP Pro, MacOS X.) It's mostly because I'm a app developer on the side, but it's nice to have choices and if you're a tech fiend like myself, it's great to explore anything new on the market.

    I agree totally with all your points. Apple's hardware is lacking, to be polite. The fall back argument when anyone points this out to die-hard Mac fans is that though the hardware is slower, it's of better quality (which is untrue, much of the components are of lower quality and seeing as Apple uses the same fab plants as Dell and HP, the argument doesn't hold any weight) Stylistic design is usually better from Apple, but engineering design is not (especially compared to a company like IBM.) When these things are pointed out, the next argument is that look to the G5; well all I've seen of the G5 so far is marketing-spin and plausible excuses for design flaws. It's untested and once in the market, something to revisit.

    The real bonus is the OS for Mac, which is "fun." I wouldn't say it excels in intuitiveness or stability or innovation (pretty much any of the Steve Jobs' current buzzwords), but it is fun to use and tinker with (especially if you come from a UNIX background.) It's nice to see a mainstream Linux (please don't post about OS X being based on FreeBSD, I know this, it's just that linux was more of a pioneer to bring UNIX to the massess.) Would I use the MacOS X as my sole platform? No; I like freedom. Are iApps the greatest thing? No; they're rather ho hum and if you've got professional-level software, you'd never use iApps anyway.

    My recommendation is, if you have the money, make this an "and" situation instead of an "either/or" situation. Keep a PC and Mac; I use VNC to "steer" my Mac from my laptop all the time and it's virtually fluid with no hits on either platform.

    (BTW, as for the much hyped "virus" situation, it's never been an issue with my systems. I'm not Joe User and I don't assume that everyone is-- run a personal firewall and antivirus software (keeping virus defs up to date) and you'll never have issues. Also, to kill another issue oft brought up, you don't need to re-install the Win OS to keep it running in peak condition. In fact, I have _never_ had to do a complete overhaul of any of my systems.)

    Personally, my next buy (which doesn't look to be a dual 2Ghz G5 because it seems disappointing), is the IBM announced (avail in December) 4 processor linux box using four (yes, 4!) 970 processors for $3500. True, it won't run MacOS X (damn Apple's monopolistic behaviour), but think of how fast of a rendering system it'll be, not to mention, IBM's great industrial design and support for their servers! Plus, the next time a Mac user claims to be a "power user" with his dual 2Ghz G5, my response will be quick: "Oh, you're only running 2 processors.. that's cute. My 4 processor will eat yours for lunch!" :cool:

    --Legion
    (...awaiting for the entrenched Mac users to start claiming my post as "trollish" or fud ;) )
     
  16. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    #16
    i hear this alot from customers and my friends. they talk about having no software and many accesories and hardware not being available for them. but then i make them realize that they never add hardware to their computer and hardly never add software to it, and if they do what they want is always for the mac. now this may not be the case with everyone, but i see it all the time and most of the time. they list all these reasons why not to switch, but yet none of these reasons apply to them. and im still tryign to figure out why this guy signed on just to make this thread and tell us why he wont switch. its like he walked in on a mac user group and layed down why he doesnt want to switch in front of a bunch of people and doesnt ask for suggestions or alternatives to what he needs to do to make the switch. if you ask me this guy is just asking for this thread to get stirred up and is a waste of web space on arn's site.

    iJon
     
  17. idea_hamster macrumors 65816

    idea_hamster

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    Location:
    NYC, or thereabouts
    #17
    Bravo! This is one of the all-too-often over-looked points: Who cares if Wintel has a ga-jillion applications when the 10 or 15 that I care about are available for Mac?

    (Also, as I understand it, those super-huge software numbers usually include titles for DOS, Win 3.1, etc., which aren't actually supported on Win2k or XP. A little data massaging going on there, me thinks!)
     
  18. xpormac macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    #18

    any program that ran on a version of windows can be run on windows xp. If it has problems running, all you have to do is go under properties and select which os version under compatibility mode.
     
  19. tjwett macrumors 68000

    tjwett

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NYC
    #19
    here's a radical idea: DON'T SWITCH!

    congratulations. you came, you saw, you stated the obvious...and a little nonsense as well. no one cares what you're spending your money on. now beat it, please.:rolleyes:
     
  20. Powerbook G5 macrumors 68040

    Powerbook G5

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Location:
    St Augustine, FL
    #20
    Not exactly, our Printship program doesn't work under XP and none of my DOS/Win 3.1 Wing Commander games work under either Windows ME or XP no matter how hard I try to ge them to work. The funny thing is, they all work on my Mac with VPC...
     
  21. xpormac macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
  22. MacAficionado macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Location:
    An awesome place
    #22
    Hmmm!

    There are different things that different people value more than others. Why Apple is for me has to do with the experiences and frustrations I suffered being a Windows 98 and ME before being an OS X user.
    The way a surf the internet, with multiple windows open and just clicking faster than my PC could react, was no match for those machines. My PC would crash over 5 times a day, and I consider myself knowledgeable in computers. I do video and on a Windows machine back then it was a joke, I had done video editing since 97 on a Mac and it was flawless.
    I got myself a DP 867 and it has been a great decision, fast enough to edit for my wedding video business and great to do everything else, sure the old Umax scanner was not compatible, so I got another one! The Epson printer was recognized without me even installing any drivers.

    Funny the first program to crash was Microsoft Internet Explorer, and I was amazed it did not take the system down with it, I was soooo impressed when that happened, I downloaded Mozilla at the time and never again used IE.

    I think if you get a G5 you would not be dissapointed, but hey its up to you.
     
  23. noel4r macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #23
    He doesn't want to switch, why force him? Not everybody needs to switch over to Apple you know. It would be nice, but that's not the case.
     
  24. eclipse525 macrumors 6502a

    eclipse525

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Location:
    USA, New York
    #24

    What is your malfunction!.....No one is trying to force him to switch. It's just a discussion about what ultimately works for an individual. The reality is that for some people it's dual platform world. The quicker people realize that, the faster (I believe) the world will be closer to a one world platform. Hey, it's a dream, I'm entitled. :) The masses dictate change, NOT the other way around.


    ~e
     
  25. actripxl macrumors 6502

    actripxl

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2002
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    #25
    Cut noel some slack here, I feel he has a right to feel the way he does. If mocca is here telling us ALL these reasons to not switch then don't post anything and leave. I mean come on its like some one saying I have all these reasons not to move to India but I like how the Taj Mahal looks, what do you say to someone like that? You tell them to grow up and quit waisting your time on such a ridiculous statment when they clearly have nothing meaningful to say about the country. I switched in Dec. sold my iBook about a month ago and now waiting for the PB upgrades. I don't miss the PC other than the games, but my GC and XBOX do just fine for me. I don't see myself going back and as soon as my mom needs to change her comp you can bet Im gonna recommend a Mac like I do now to all my friends. Plus there is one word why I will never go back to windows when I get my next desktop: PALLIDIUM!
     

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