Man, couldn't disagree more. 'In the background', is exactly the problem. Nothing like background services mucking up your user experience.
Is anyone going to help me here? On an Apple site no less?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Why I'm switching to PC after 17 years of being on a Mac
- Thread starter 67952
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Man, couldn't disagree more. 'In the background', is exactly the problem. Nothing like background services mucking up your user experience.
Is anyone going to help me here? On an Apple site no less?
Sigh. No, you can't solve everything with making it thicker.
The bottom line - I don't want other ports on my MacBook Pro. If they had more space, I'd want more USB-C ports. But 4 is plenty. Much better than having just two USB ports on previous models.
Apple made a good choice here.
I carried dongles for my old MBP and I carry dongles for the new MBP. Swapped a few cables for the peripherals I use. Bought a couple of new USB A/C flash drives to replace a couple flash drives. Already had a SD card reader that I carried for when I wanted faster transfers, so swapped it out for a USB C version.
It really is that simple. And no different than when I upgraded in 2012 to that new version and had to buy dongles and different cables. I think what most people forget, is that if you buy in to a new product line, be it any manufacture, you are an early adopter. USB-C is the new USB standard, it may take some time to transition, but it already has begun, which is why there are already quite a few options on the market already for USB-C cables and adaptors. And not just Mac, it is PC side as well.
As to the 32gb argument. If they had the option, I would have gotten it, but not if it weighed 6 pounds or more (like therealseebs machine) in order to do it, and/or not have enough battery for a cross country flight. Just like the options on the PC side... In my opinion, at that point might as well carry a MP and hook it up when we get on site(just like we do now if need be). The thing is Apple most likely did their homework and the subset of people that need that kind of power when mobile, just does not bring in enough profit for them to go through the R&D costs to make it happen. Plus would think a majority of people who need that kind of power, purchase a desktop. Those that travel and truely need the power buy the 6-10 pound Moble workstation and understand the trade offs to get that power.
We here that post on MacRumors are,for the most part, not representative of the majority of users. We are a vocal minority. The Mac OS community/user base is small compared to the PC community/user base. Apple chooses to put their efforts into desktop solutions for the power user side. And cater to more of their user base on the mobile side. They have a few upgrade option for the power mobile user. But seem to not think it profitable to make mobile workstations.
If Apple's offerings don't/no longer work for you, then like the OP, you need to go elsewhere to find what does. Apple is not the budget computer supplier, nor do they want to be. They sell not just a computer/phone/tablet, they are selling an ecosystem that integrates all their hardware. They tweak their software to work with the hardware. And either that ecosystem works for you or not.
It really is that simple. And no different than when I upgraded in 2012 to that new version and had to buy dongles and different cables. I think what most people forget, is that if you buy in to a new product line, be it any manufacture, you are an early adopter. USB-C is the new USB standard, it may take some time to transition, but it already has begun, which is why there are already quite a few options on the market already for USB-C cables and adaptors. And not just Mac, it is PC side as well.
As to the 32gb argument. If they had the option, I would have gotten it, but not if it weighed 6 pounds or more (like therealseebs machine) in order to do it, and/or not have enough battery for a cross country flight. Just like the options on the PC side... In my opinion, at that point might as well carry a MP and hook it up when we get on site(just like we do now if need be). The thing is Apple most likely did their homework and the subset of people that need that kind of power when mobile, just does not bring in enough profit for them to go through the R&D costs to make it happen. Plus would think a majority of people who need that kind of power, purchase a desktop. Those that travel and truely need the power buy the 6-10 pound Moble workstation and understand the trade offs to get that power.
We here that post on MacRumors are,for the most part, not representative of the majority of users. We are a vocal minority. The Mac OS community/user base is small compared to the PC community/user base. Apple chooses to put their efforts into desktop solutions for the power user side. And cater to more of their user base on the mobile side. They have a few upgrade option for the power mobile user. But seem to not think it profitable to make mobile workstations.
If Apple's offerings don't/no longer work for you, then like the OP, you need to go elsewhere to find what does. Apple is not the budget computer supplier, nor do they want to be. They sell not just a computer/phone/tablet, they are selling an ecosystem that integrates all their hardware. They tweak their software to work with the hardware. And either that ecosystem works for you or not.
I don't think it makes sense to claim that they're doing desktop solutions for the power user side. How old are the mac pro models right now?
And while I agree that not everyone needs that kind of power, there are a whole lot of people who would be happier with a slightly thicker laptop with significantly better battery life or functionality. You wouldn't need to go all the way to a 6 pound laptop to get DDR4 memory; the Precision has a lot of other things contributing to it being larger and heavier.
But Apple's producing machines that can't even run at full power sustainably, because their power supply doesn't match their peak load, and that's ridiculous. I've never previously seen a laptop which couldn't run at full load off its supplied adapter, and even recharge the battery a little.
And yes, you're quite right, the MacOS user base is small compared to the PC user base. A big part of that is because Apple keeps making machines that are strongly weighted towards one end of the user base. The thing is, the users who don't care much don't care much, and would be pretty happy with a slightly heavier machine, too. Apple's focusing really hard on appealing to people based, I suspect, mostly on Tim Cook's "why would you even get a computer rather than a tablet" theory.
[doublepost=1481214608][/doublepost]
Given that Apple does the same thing (automatic download of updates, which you can't suppress), I don't think so. Ever notice that the ipad auto-downloads system software upgrades? Background updates are actually a pretty good idea, as long as they don't force a reboot quickly when you're working. (Admittedly, this is a definite problem with Windows 10.)
Automatic background updates don't produce enough load to notice, in my experience. I think they're generally a good idea. And I think that when Apple does it, and when Microsoft does it. (I do wish Apple would let us permanently decline on the iPad, though, as I've had cases where a specific app was known to be broken with the new OS, and didn't get fixed/updated for months, and that was months of daily interruptions and reminders that I need to allow the machine to install the update, with only "remind me later", no "stop asking", option.)
And while I agree that not everyone needs that kind of power, there are a whole lot of people who would be happier with a slightly thicker laptop with significantly better battery life or functionality. You wouldn't need to go all the way to a 6 pound laptop to get DDR4 memory; the Precision has a lot of other things contributing to it being larger and heavier.
But Apple's producing machines that can't even run at full power sustainably, because their power supply doesn't match their peak load, and that's ridiculous. I've never previously seen a laptop which couldn't run at full load off its supplied adapter, and even recharge the battery a little.
And yes, you're quite right, the MacOS user base is small compared to the PC user base. A big part of that is because Apple keeps making machines that are strongly weighted towards one end of the user base. The thing is, the users who don't care much don't care much, and would be pretty happy with a slightly heavier machine, too. Apple's focusing really hard on appealing to people based, I suspect, mostly on Tim Cook's "why would you even get a computer rather than a tablet" theory.
[doublepost=1481214608][/doublepost]
Man, couldn't disagree more. 'In the background', is exactly the problem. Nothing like background services mucking up your user experience.
Is anyone going to help me here? On an Apple site no less?
Given that Apple does the same thing (automatic download of updates, which you can't suppress), I don't think so. Ever notice that the ipad auto-downloads system software upgrades? Background updates are actually a pretty good idea, as long as they don't force a reboot quickly when you're working. (Admittedly, this is a definite problem with Windows 10.)
Automatic background updates don't produce enough load to notice, in my experience. I think they're generally a good idea. And I think that when Apple does it, and when Microsoft does it. (I do wish Apple would let us permanently decline on the iPad, though, as I've had cases where a specific app was known to be broken with the new OS, and didn't get fixed/updated for months, and that was months of daily interruptions and reminders that I need to allow the machine to install the update, with only "remind me later", no "stop asking", option.)
Man, couldn't disagree more. 'In the background', is exactly the problem. Nothing like background services mucking up your user experience.
Is anyone going to help me here? On an Apple site no less?
I could bash Windows all day but just wanted to say that the amount of updates is not a negative thing if it keeps your pc safe. On a negative side, they often push non-security updates that may affect your privacy. The thing here is to opt in only on the security updates (which is really not easy).
Mac also check for updates in the background. The difference is subtle, MAC doesn't provide a full malware protection since you're suppose to install only app that comes from the app store. The apps are scanned for malware/virus when the developer upload thems. They don't need to push as often.
I use at least three platforms so I try to be partial.
Windows 10 and OSX are both great. I think Apple respect the user's privacy more than Microsoft. The only reason I don't have a Mac-only ecosystem is the price. The cheapest mac with a quad core i7 is 3000$ CDN (+15%taxes).
ouch!
You said it's at the heart of Windows, which it isn't. There are remnants of MS-DOS, but it's not an integral part of Windows anymore and hasn't been for ages. I was commenting on what you said, which was 100% incorrect.
Iphone 7 Plus 869$
Macbook 12 1299$
Macbook Pro 13 n/TB 1499$
Macbook Pro 13 w/TB 1799$
Macbook pro 15 (2016) 2399$
The new Macbook Pro is priced well according to Apple current products line-up.
I would be complaining more about the prices of the iphone 7 and Macbook 12 lol.
Apple figured if people will pay 1299$ for the Macbook 12 then 1499$ is an amzing deal for the 2016 Macbook pro no TB.
You guys dictate the prices for this devices it's not Apple fault.
If you think there's people out there spending 15K on luxury cell phones to match with their Bentley interior .....Whats 3000$ for a laptop lol
Macbook 12 1299$
Macbook Pro 13 n/TB 1499$
Macbook Pro 13 w/TB 1799$
Macbook pro 15 (2016) 2399$
The new Macbook Pro is priced well according to Apple current products line-up.
I would be complaining more about the prices of the iphone 7 and Macbook 12 lol.
Apple figured if people will pay 1299$ for the Macbook 12 then 1499$ is an amzing deal for the 2016 Macbook pro no TB.
You guys dictate the prices for this devices it's not Apple fault.
If you think there's people out there spending 15K on luxury cell phones to match with their Bentley interior .....Whats 3000$ for a laptop lol
I still stand that the whole MSDOS baggage is still at the "heart of Windows" (But I don't believe in Santa Claus). While MS said they put a new team and developed a truely new 32 bit and then 64 bit system it sure doesn't seem like it. And if they did, it took version 7 to really become a good system with a bit of a regression from 7 to 10. However, you are correct that the old 8 bit MSDOS does not have a GUI interface of Windows on top of it these days, but to say Windows is not related in any way with DOS, well it sure doesn't seem like it.
I programmed in C for MSDOS before Windows and recently a simple interface and file saving program using MS Foundation classes C++, (Why? Because I know that API and it still works really well). Just hate the security, but I've beat that horse to death.
The good news about Windows and its security is how many people it has made millionaires of $$$ writing security programs and providing subscritption services for updates (I use MS Defender BTW, the free one that comes with Windows).
Thanks though for the conversation.
Unfortunately the need for backwards compatibility is going to keep that archaic crap in there for a while ... a very slow death. And yes, Windows Defender by itself is a lot better than it used to be.I still stand that the whole MSDOS baggage is still at the "heart of Windows" (But I don't believe in Santa Claus). While MS said they put a new team and developed a truely new 32 bit and then 64 bit system it sure doesn't seem like it. And if they did, it took version 7 to really become a good system with a bit of a regression from 7 to 10. However, you are correct that the old 8 bit MSDOS does not have a GUI interface of Windows on top of it these days, but to say Windows is not related in any way with DOS, well it sure doesn't seem like it.
I programmed in C for MSDOS before Windows and recently a simple interface and file saving program using MS Foundation classes C++, (Why? Because I know that API and it still works really well). Just hate the security, but I've beat that horse to death.
The good news about Windows and its security is how many people it has made millionaires of $$$ writing security programs and providing subscritption services for updates (I use MS Defender BTW, the free one that comes with Windows).
Thanks though for the conversation.
I still stand that the whole MSDOS baggage is still at the "heart of Windows" (But I don't believe in Santa Claus). While MS said they put a new team and developed a truely new 32 bit and then 64 bit system it sure doesn't seem like it. And if they did, it took version 7 to really become a good system with a bit of a regression from 7 to 10. However, you are correct that the old 8 bit MSDOS does not have a GUI interface of Windows on top of it these days, but to say Windows is not related in any way with DOS, well it sure doesn't seem like it.
I programmed in C for MSDOS before Windows and recently a simple interface and file saving program using MS Foundation classes C++, (Why? Because I know that API and it still works really well). Just hate the security, but I've beat that horse to death.
The good news about Windows and its security is how many people it has made millionaires of $$$ writing security programs and providing subscritption services for updates (I use MS Defender BTW, the free one that comes with Windows).
Thanks though for the conversation.
You're really mixing things up. There hasn't been any actual MS-DOS in windows for a long time. There has been, and still is, backwards compatibility with commands that have names that originated in DOS, which you can access from a command prompt, but it isn't MS-DOS. You can also run up a shell on OS X of your choice, but that doesn't mean you're running on UNIX System-V.
In the near future, the default command prompt under windows will become PowerShell.
Not forgetting you can always run the proper Ubuntu Bash shell on Windows 10 as well.
I'd agree that the registry is horrible, and suggest that the proliferation of viruses etc is at least partly due to the proliferation of windows itself. Neither of these are really connected to MS-DOS though. UWP apps are supposed to be sandboxed but they are also a topic for another day.
Then you're wrong. This is not a matter of opinion, it's a technical question. You might as well be asserting that you still stand that dogs are still basically horses. It's not even close to true, and continuing to assert it at this point is either lying or a level of willful ignorance which is indistinguishable from lying.
Look, the goal here should be to understand things and hold beliefs which make sense and reflect reality. Not to edit reality until we feel great about our favorite computers.
[doublepost=1481299327][/doublepost]
There's a tradeoff there, though. I can run stuff on my Linux and Windows machines that I got in the 1990s. I can't run anything that old on my Mac, even if I want to.
Pretty much ... and him putting it in quotes doesn't suddenly make it true.
I see this a lot more often than I care to. Lots of extreme exaggerations in an attempt for people to justify favoritism.
That's definitely a big disadvantage on the Mac compared to Windows. Sometimes I can't even run an app that's only a few years old.
Long ago, I was at a computer store (Computer City), and one of the sales reps was trying to warn people away from Macs because of the PowerPC transition, and how Apple is "always" doing transitions that break old software. And I used to use that as an example of sales weasels lying to push people towards something they get better commissions on.
Well, he was wrong then, but he's not wrong now. Since my 68k macs in the 1990s, I've seen the PPC switch, which broke a lot of things. Then there was OS X, but we still had Classic, but then Classic went away. Then we did the x86 switch, but we still had PPC executable support. Then the PPC executable support went away. And now we have the code-signing thing, which makes it surprisingly hard to get old apps to run even if they happen to be x86 builds.
Meanwhile, I think I can still run some 1990s Linux binaries.
(To be fair, MS has had even more massive and breaking API changes, they just tend to keep old stuff supported-ish for quite a bit longer.)
OS X is certainly not an OS that I would choose for long-term stability
The API changes a lot and requires a constant effort from the developer to keep up. Microsoft has always been much more considerate about backwards compatibility. But that is also the reason why MS still can't support hi-DPI displays properly while OS X is the only consumer OS that has seamless 64bit support.If all one does is use one or two specialised applications (e.g. Photoshop or whatever), you can't really beat Windows. But for a user that requires flexibility (e.g. scientists, software developers etc.), I consider Windows to be borderline unusable.
Just plain wrong, vast majority of engineers & scientists I have and remain to work with are on the Windows platform, your bias to towards Apple is starting verge on the ridiculous...
Q-6
The only person I regularly interact with who does scientific research is on Windows. Most of the sysadmin types I know prefer Unix of some kind, often MacOS. I have more Mac than Windows coworkers, for instance... But there's also a lot of discontent this time around. I have seen occasional "ugh, that's annoying" before, but nothing even close to this.
The majority I know prefer Unix type systems. Each OS has it's advantages/disadvantages and I use them all for different situations.
Last edited:
I understand the need for an underlying Unix base for some, equally I object to individuals portraying gross inaccuracy. In my own industry Windows is dominant, nor is this a bias on my behalf; geologists, physicists, geophysicists, material scientists etc.
I have seen some to use Mac`s, equally they tend to remote into far more serious hardware. It is simply disingenuous to suggest the Windows 10 is only suitable for the odd application here and there, same would apply to anyone suggesting the same of macOS, only serves to illustrate an irrational & potentially immature bias.
Frankly speaking if Apple offered such a superior OS, macOs would be dominant in 2016, it`s not and for reason.
Q-6
I think the reason is the hardware.
If I could run MacOS on hardware comparable to the Dell laptop I got, I would do that. Even if it cost $1k+ more than a comparable machine with Linux or Windows.
But I can't get Apple hardware that comes even close anymore... So I'm using other stuff.
I know lots of people who agree that MacOS is superior, but they're not willing to spend $1k+ more to have an Apple machine than a Windows machine with similar functionality, even if the Apple machine is really light.
If you could buy MacOS for $200 or so, and it ran on reasonably common mainstream PC hardware and got laptop driver support from vendors, I would guess that probably 80% of the people I know who have Windows machines would be running MacOS.
OP, what were you looking for when you posted this? Were you wanting affirmation? Did you want to rally the troops and lead a mass exodus from Apple? Seriously, why did you spend so much of your time writing this? Don't you have a blog where you can share stuff like this?
Bye? Ok? Are, are you close to anyone here? Will someone be like, "Oh, snap! Loft3 has left the Apple fold, what am i doing with my life?! Should I think about moving on to Windows machines?"
I know I could have ignored this whole thread, but I wonder if anyone else is sick of posts like this. Not posts that are negative towards Apple products, but posts that are clearly about the person rather than the product. Someone as a come-to-Jesus moment about an Apple product and the post this long (arguably) boring story about it, that contains no original thoughts, and could really have been posted on a personal blog or some other outlet for sharing one's thoughts to the internet. OP, start a blog. Write this **** there. If it's really actually interesting, someone will find it and link to it here.
Bye? Ok? Are, are you close to anyone here? Will someone be like, "Oh, snap! Loft3 has left the Apple fold, what am i doing with my life?! Should I think about moving on to Windows machines?"
I know I could have ignored this whole thread, but I wonder if anyone else is sick of posts like this. Not posts that are negative towards Apple products, but posts that are clearly about the person rather than the product. Someone as a come-to-Jesus moment about an Apple product and the post this long (arguably) boring story about it, that contains no original thoughts, and could really have been posted on a personal blog or some other outlet for sharing one's thoughts to the internet. OP, start a blog. Write this **** there. If it's really actually interesting, someone will find it and link to it here.
Another aspect is the software, as much engineering applications can be and are proprietary, with companies not willing rewrite code for such a small user base. My own opinion is that that both Windows 10 & macOS have their own unique positives & negatives. Personally I have moved off macOS as my workflow breaks the filesystem, nor does this mean macOS should be avoided as my use case is likely unique.
Apple`s focus is clearly on the consumer, hence the hardware offered. Same as your good self people have make a decision over the hardware, software environment. Many professionals will be able to work within Apple`s hardware, software constraints, equally many more will not.
My own thoughts on this is that Apple will continue to drift to the "middle ground" softening it`s approach as that`s where the sales are. Apple will continue to look to produce high level computing experiences, however ultimately they are consumer based solutions.
Q-6
Probably the same thing most people are looking for when they post: To share their experiences and be heard.
Apple's an incredible company, and a pretty unique one. They've got a lot of long-term die-hard fans. A lot of the people in this forum haven't been alive as long as I've been using Macs, or for that matter, as long as I've been using the OS which is now being called "macOS". People have strong feelings about Apple, and the Mac platform, and MacOS.
So they talk about how they feel. And maybe other people say "hey, I'm there too". Or they say "I felt the same way about this, but then I found this app which made that problem better". Or whatever else. And maybe the information's helpful. And maybe it's not.
And sometimes if I'm not sure about a thing, I'll look to see what people on forums are saying about their own experience.
And the only people I generally find it's completely a waste of time to listen to are the ones who are spending their time telling us how much of a waste of time it is to listen to people or think about what they say.
[doublepost=1481323353][/doublepost]
I think they're going to keep cutting out the high end, because the high end is more expensive to compete in, and profit margins aren't as high. They've done a great job of getting people comfortable paying absolutely top prices for mid-range hardware. So they are gonna make money hand over fist while it lasts. In the long run, though, I think they're starting to seriously hurt their long-term market share, by driving away some of the longest-term and most loyal customers.
Back when basically no news story about Apple was complete without the word "beleaguered", we're the ones who stuck with them because they had an incredible product.
Now I see crap like the iPhone 7 (seriously, no headphone jack, what are they thinking), and I notice how much money they're making on that, and how much they're dropping work on what used to be their core focus. MacOS releases used to consistently improve stability and reliability. From 10.9 to 10.12, I haven't seen anything that was as stable as my experiences with 10.6, 10.7, and 10.8. It's been consistently worse, and it's not improving. I have more open bugs about actual crash/data loss issues in my bug reporter account than I used to, and I don't remember the last time I saw a reported bug get fixed. It used to be they tended to get fixed because Apple cared about crashes. Now they care about that initial shiny experience in the store.
And that means a lot of people have gone, or are going, from "loyal apple customer" to "former loyal apple customer". Back before the Retina MBP came out, if you'd asked me if I'd be using a Mac in 2018, I'd have said I expected to be. Now I don't think I will be. And I have bought a lot of Mac hardware over the years.