Why is Apple so stubborn?

[jeremy.king]

So I watched the webcast and I started thinking...

Apple has 70 some % marketshare of legal music downloads.

Apple has 31 % of MP3 player market.

So to gain more market share, Apple tries to penetrate the so called other 30 some % of mid range players by introducing iPod mini. IMO,I doubt this will succeed in gaining marketshare as many more high end players are available and are cheaper (in more ways than one) and people are starting to take notice. However, as more non-iPod owners become more exposed to downloadable music wont this drive DOWN Apples marketshare in music downloads?

Again, I assume this...as I would find it hard to believe that iPods outsell all other mid range (say 1-10 GB) MP3 Players on the market.

Why doesn't apple try to build on the success of iTMS and support other players? I would imagine that would be a better long term decision as it would open up everyones eyes to iTunes.

Of course to make your product the best, its easy to ONLY support YOUR OWN hardware. By in my eyes, iTMS is software and it shouldn't be tied to a certain hardware platform (ie iPod)

To me this is history is in the process of repeating itself and Apple will lose marketshare...again.

I guess we can wait and see, and HOPEFULLY, I am totally off

Any thoughts? Am I just ranting about nothing?

 

[tjwett]

thing that bummed me out was the price tag of the mini. $249 seems silly to me. ok, for $50 more than the Rio i get 4gb. but for $50 more than that i can get a 15gb iPod. not hard to make that decision. if people were turned off by the $299 iPod i don't think $249 will change their minds. i was expecting something more like $149. that $200 mark is the line for a lot of people.

 

[ftaok]

Personally, I think it's the other way around. With iTMS getting a 70% share, the other companies should be making players that are compatible with AAC (Fairplay DRM). The mini iPods are just filling in a niche that Apple previously did not compete in. I think the price is a little high, but let's just let it play out.

 

[jeremy.king]

Originally posted by ftaok
Personally, I think it's the other way around. With iTMS getting a 70% share, the other companies should be making players that are compatible with AAC (Fairplay DRM). The mini iPods are just filling in a niche that Apple previously did not compete in. I think the price is a little high, but let's just let it play out.

True. Good point.

I meant Apple should support iTunes syncing, etc with other players.

 

[jxyama]

a poster on /. had an interesting take on this...

apple's actually in a good situation. because of the tight integration between ipod and itms, any competitors must face both of them.

it's not enough for dell to beat ipod alone. in order for dell's jukebox to beat ipod, it must beat ipod AND the songs purchased via itms. if i have an ipod and 50 songs purchased via itms, i would not consider switching to dell's jukebox unless the jukebox is at least $50 cheaper than the ipod because i'd lose the songs i purchased via itms.

similar consideration for people considering switching away from itms...

 

[CrackedButter]

But... now the itunes supports 2 players, not just the iPod.

 

[ChrisH3677]

1 & 2 Gig iPods within 6 months

One thing I've learned about Apple in the last year or so I've followed them closely...

They often release a product early (too early?) and then replace it within a few months with what everyone wanted in the first place.

I'd consider the mini-iPod (altho there's no mention of them on the Aussie store yet) but still think within 3-6 months, they'll release 1 & 2 gig models at a much better price.

 

[Pablo]

Originally posted by jxyama
it's not enough for dell to beat ipod alone. in order for dell's jukebox to beat ipod, it must beat ipod AND the songs purchased via itms. if i have an ipod and 50 songs purchased via itms, i would not consider switching to dell's jukebox unless the jukebox is at least $50 cheaper than the ipod because i'd lose the songs i purchased via itms.

similar consideration for people considering switching away from itms...

All you have to do is to burn your purchased music to CDs, then rip the CDs into whichever format you choose.

You may lose a little bit in the quality, but not enough for most people to notice/care about. You certainly won't lose the songs.

 

[jxyama]

Originally posted by Pablo
All you have to do is to burn your purchased music to CDs, then rip the CDs into whichever format you choose.

You may lose a little bit in the quality, but not enough for most people to notice/care about. You certainly won't lose the songs.

yes... but that's also an added burden. i can see many people thinking that "isn't it easier to just update the iPod rather than going through all that to change the player?"

so i think the spirit of the original post still stands...

nothing profound, i was just posting a different take on the tight integration. i wasn't making a definitive statement about switching players or music service...

 

[plinkoman]

Re: Why is Apple so stubborn?

Originally posted by kingjr3
So I watched the webcast and I started thinking...

Apple has 70 some % marketshare of legal music downloads.

Apple has 31 % of MP3 player market.

So to gain more market share, Apple tries to penetrate the so called other 30 some % of mid range players by introducing iPod mini. IMO,I doubt this will succeed in gaining marketshare as many more high end players are available and are cheaper (in more ways than one) and people are starting to take notice. However, as more non-iPod owners become more exposed to downloadable music wont this drive DOWN Apples marketshare in music downloads?

Again, I assume this...as I would find it hard to believe that iPods outsell all other mid range (say 1-10 GB) MP3 Players on the market.

Why doesn't apple try to build on the success of iTMS and support other players? I would imagine that would be a better long term decision as it would open up everyones eyes to iTunes.

Of course to make your product the best, its easy to ONLY support YOUR OWN hardware. By in my eyes, iTMS is software and it shouldn't be tied to a certain hardware platform (ie iPod)

To me this is history is in the process of repeating itself and Apple will lose marketshare...again.

I guess we can wait and see, and HOPEFULLY, I am totally off

Any thoughts? Am I just ranting about nothing?

you have it backwards, its not about getting people to use itunes, its about getting them to use the ipod. itunes doesn't make any money, its only purpose is to help sell ipods, it wouldn't do a good job of that if it was compatable with every player, now would it?

 

[~Shard~]

I think in general, Apple will succeed with the iPod mini - it addresses another market segment, and maybe people who want a smaller player, with smaller capacity will not even care that the 15 GB is only $50 more - they want a smaller player with smaller capacity, and the iPod mini will be perfect for them. Plus, maybe they just want a colorful MP3 player.

I'm curious to see what happens in a couple months though. It will be interesting to see how the minis go over, how they sell, and then if Apple revises them or announces other iPod updates in the spring.

 

[Frisco]

Re: Re: Why is Apple so stubborn?

Originally posted by plinkoman
you have it backwards, its not about getting people to use itunes, its about getting them to use the ipod. itunes doesn't make any money, its only purpose is to help sell ipods, it wouldn't do a good job of that if it was compatable with every player, now would it?

Apple wants us to believe that the ITMS is all about selling more iPods, because they want to try to discourage as much competition as possible. But believe me the ITMS is all about future profit and not selling more iPods. At some point the ITMS will be very profitable for Apple.

People always tell me they want an iPod. They don't say I want to download music legally from the ITMS! Most people still don't know what ITMS is.

 

[~Shard~]

Re: Re: Re: Why is Apple so stubborn?

Originally posted by Frisco
Apple wants us to believe that the ITMS is all about selling more iPods, because they want to try to discourage as much competition as possible. But believe me the ITMS is all about future profit and not selling more iPods. At some point the ITMS will be very profitable for Apple.

People always tell me they want an iPod. They don't say I want to download music legally from the ITMS! Most people still don't know what ITMS is.

This is exactly right. People want iPods, and iPods are where the money is right now for Apple - not ITMS - it is about being a profitable service in the future, not right now. Although Apple is selling a LOT of tunes through ITMS, Apple receives next to nothing from the $0.99 each song costs the user.

 

[Kingsnapped]

I'd consider the mini-iPod (altho there's no mention of them on the Aussie store yet) but still think within 3-6 months, they'll release 1 & 2 gig models at a much better price.

Good call. If this isn't already part of Apple's plans, you know it'll at least come up when they see the negitive reaction that the mini brought about.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Re: Re: Re: Why is Apple so stubborn?

Originally posted by Frisco
Apple wants us to believe that the ITMS is all about selling more iPods, because they want to try to discourage as much competition as possible. But believe me the ITMS is all about future profit and not selling more iPods. At some point the ITMS will be very profitable for Apple.

People always tell me they want an iPod. They don't say I want to download music legally from the ITMS! Most people still don't know what ITMS is.

Yes, it is a grand conspiracy by Apple to hide the true diamond in the rough that is on-line music stores. If they are attempting to discourage competition it is completely back firing because everyone and their brother is starting their own on-line music store. Apple, like any business, needs to make money and they make their money selling hardware. Things like desktops, airport base stations, and iPods. Apple makes top-notch, and in some cases revolutionary software, but sells it at bargin prices. Why? To sell hardware. Because that's where they make their money. iLife is there to sell Macs to consumers, FCP is there to sell Macs to video pros, and iTMS is there to sell iPods.


Lethal

 

[iJon]

Re: Why is Apple so stubborn?

Originally posted by kingjr3
I doubt this will succeed in gaining marketshare as many more high end players are available and are cheaper (in more ways than one) and people are starting to take notice

people are taking notice? is that why apple ran out of ipods this year and sold 730,000 of them from october-december?

iJon

 

[ITR 81]

Re: Re: Why is Apple so stubborn?

Originally posted by iJon
people are taking notice? is that why apple ran out of ipods this year and sold 730,000 of them from october-december?

iJon

Correct Apple in 3 months almost sold 3 qtrs of million iPods. I believe more will sell in coming 12 months.

The iPod mini will be a hit for HSer's and college people wanting something small and stylish and cheaper. I'm getting one because I need a iPod I can strap to my arm when I exercise and workout.

More then likely the price of the iPod mini price will drop in 6 months like all new things. They will probably add a 2Gb and a 6Gb iPod mini to the lineup.

The iPod mini is aimed at folks that spent $200 bucks on a 256MB flash MP3 player.
Not the $100-150 mid flash player market.

If the iPod cames this other 30% of the market and I'm betting it will make some head way by end of this yr. Apple could be well on it's way to owning 60+% of MP3 player market as well.

I believe more hardware and iTMS stores will be released before Jan. is up.

 

[iJon]

Re: Re: Re: Why is Apple so stubborn?

Originally posted by ITR 81
Correct Apple in 3 months almost sold 3 qtrs of million iPods. I believe more will sell in coming 12 months.

The iPod mini will be a hit for HSer's and college people wanting something small and stylish and cheaper. I'm getting one because I need a iPod I can strap to my arm when I exercise and workout.

More then likely the price of the iPod mini price will drop in 6 months like all new things. They will probably add a 2Gb and a 6Gb iPod mini to the lineup.

The iPod mini is aimed at folks that spent $200 bucks on a 256MB flash MP3 player.
Not the $100-150 mid flash player market.

If the iPod cames this other 30% of the market and I'm betting it will make some head way by end of this yr. Apple could be well on it's way to owning 60+% of MP3 player market as well.

I believe more hardware and iTMS stores will be released before Jan. is up.

yep give the minis time, new product using new hard drives. they will play out most likely like the original ipod, with time price will come down.

iJon

 

[jeremy.king]

A step in the right direction

Given the recent HP announcement, I think Apple is trying to expand their marketshare a bit more than I thought. Branded iPods...Sure GENIOUS Llloyd!

They get a *little* help with promotion to the PC world.

Nice job Apple

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Originally posted by Kingsnapped
Good call. If this isn't already part of Apple's plans, you know it'll at least come up when they see the negitive reaction that the mini brought about.

I at first thought that Apple lost their minds. Why would anyone not spend the extra $50? But lloking at other 2 and 4 gb players, they were in the right ballpark. The smaller sizes and colors will be the attraction for many.

Any lower cost iPod Mini's will be more to fill in the competitive gaps.

 

[7on]

Re: Why is Apple so stubborn?

Originally posted by kingjr3
So I watched the webcast and I started thinking...

Apple has 70 some % marketshare of legal music downloads.

Apple has 31 % of MP3 player market.

So to gain more market share, Apple tries to penetrate the so called other 30 some % of mid range players by introducing iPod mini. IMO,I doubt this will succeed in gaining marketshare as many more high end players are available and are cheaper (in more ways than one) and people are starting to take notice. However, as more non-iPod owners become more exposed to downloadable music wont this drive DOWN Apples marketshare in music downloads?

Again, I assume this...as I would find it hard to believe that iPods outsell all other mid range (say 1-10 GB) MP3 Players on the market.

Why doesn't apple try to build on the success of iTMS and support other players? I would imagine that would be a better long term decision as it would open up everyones eyes to iTunes.

Of course to make your product the best, its easy to ONLY support YOUR OWN hardware. By in my eyes, iTMS is software and it shouldn't be tied to a certain hardware platform (ie iPod)

To me this is history is in the process of repeating itself and Apple will lose marketshare...again.

I guess we can wait and see, and HOPEFULLY, I am totally off

Any thoughts? Am I just ranting about nothing?

Don't forget, one of Apple's biggest problems was when they opened up the market for Apple Clones. Thus abling Apple software on cheaper non-Apple hardware. I'm sure the executives at Apple haven't forgotten this.

 

[plinkoman]

Re: Re: Re: Why is Apple so stubborn?

Originally posted by Frisco
Apple wants us to believe that the ITMS is all about selling more iPods, because they want to try to discourage as much competition as possible. But believe me the ITMS is all about future profit and not selling more iPods. At some point the ITMS will be very profitable for Apple.

People always tell me they want an iPod. They don't say I want to download music legally from the ITMS! Most people still don't know what ITMS is.

and how are they going to sell more ipods if they support competitors? it wont be too long before riaa has shut down all the p2p networks, people will need a place to get music legally, so apple is providing the best download service, but if you want to use it, you need their player, so when your thinking of which player to buy, you chose an ipod over a competitor, if itunes supported everything, then they would loose market share because people could use any player with it.

 

[ChrisH3677]

the maths is interesting...

8 cents x 30 million songs = $2.4m (not to be sneezed at)

but, let's say they make on average $50 on every iPod sold...

$50 x 2m = $100m!!!

No wonder they want to sell iPods!!

So when they give away 100m songs it will cost them $8m but they could recoup that by selling 160,000 iPods - and they were selling that many per week before xmas!

(On my $50 estimate) they only need 1 in 625 songs to sell an iPod to get ahead.

But how many iPods will 100 million free songs sell?

It will be interesting, esp with the HP deal too.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Re: Re: Why is Apple so stubborn?

Originally posted by 7on
Don't forget, one of Apple's biggest problems was when they opened up the market for Apple Clones. Thus abling Apple software on cheaper non-Apple hardware. I'm sure the executives at Apple haven't forgotten this.

I don't think the HP deal will have the same effect because it sounds like Apple is just selling HP iPods that HP will re-badge. So there is no under-cutting of Apple. Apple isn't giving HP the right to develop/manufacture iPod competitors<sp?> just the ability to sell an iPod w/an HP logo and color scheme.


Lethal

 

[jefhatfield]

Re: Why is Apple so stubborn?

Originally posted by kingjr3
So I watched the webcast and I started thinking...

Apple has 70 some % marketshare of legal music downloads.

Apple has 31 % of MP3 player market.

So to gain more market share, Apple tries to penetrate the so called other 30 some % of mid range players by introducing iPod mini. IMO,I doubt this will succeed in gaining marketshare as many more high end players are available and are cheaper (in more ways than one) and people are starting to take notice. However, as more non-iPod owners become more exposed to downloadable music wont this drive DOWN Apples marketshare in music downloads?

Again, I assume this...as I would find it hard to believe that iPods outsell all other mid range (say 1-10 GB) MP3 Players on the market.

Why doesn't apple try to build on the success of iTMS and support other players? I would imagine that would be a better long term decision as it would open up everyones eyes to iTunes.

Of course to make your product the best, its easy to ONLY support YOUR OWN hardware. By in my eyes, iTMS is software and it shouldn't be tied to a certain hardware platform (ie iPod)

To me this is history is in the process of repeating itself and Apple will lose marketshare...again.

I guess we can wait and see, and HOPEFULLY, I am totally off

Any thoughts? Am I just ranting about nothing?

apple inc has never been a business

in other words, making money *the right way, when it's in the palm of your hands, is the most evil thing in the universie according to anyone named steve who has a stake in apple inc

it's only a 30 year trend or so with apple inc