Why the Black MB isn't a ripoff, and why Integrated Graphics isn't so bad.

Discussion in 'Buying Tips and Advice' started by Abstract, May 22, 2006.

  1. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #1
    I'm just going to say a few things about the MacBook and MacBook Pro. Yes, I'm giving advice in the "Buyer's Advice" forum.

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    "The black MB is a ripoff!"

    In a way, you're right, but in a way, you're very wrong. Yes you're paying $150 for another colour, and no added benefit over a white MB with identical specs.

    Well, I don't understand why the complaints are floating around here regarding the extra cost of buying the black model when you do it all the time for other things. For instance, what about car colours? Many car dealerships only give you white, black, and red for free, and charge you for any of the other 12 colours they offer. Guess what? People pay for purely cosmetic differences all the time. Sometimes it costs $700 to $1000 to select a navy blue car!!
    If people always had to do things that were logical, there wouldn't even be a choice. Why spend more on a paint job? It's just the colour, after all, not the inner workings of the car.

    The black coloured MB isn't a ripoff for those people who want black.


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    "The black MacBook looks too much like a Winblows laptop/Dell/IBM/etc...

    No it doesn't. In fact, nobody really makes black laptops anymore except Lenovo (who makes the Thinkpads now). Almost all laptops are made in a silver colour similar to the PowerBooks MBPs, and nobody gets a PB or MBP confused with a Gateway laptop. Preposterous! :p If anything is bland, the PB's aluminium colour is just like everyone elses product, and has to go.

    The black MB is very unique, and completely unlike a WinXP laptop, including the Thinkpad. Those black Thinkpads have slight red and blue colours all over the keyboard area and trackpad area.


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    Integrated Graphics is teh suxx0rs!

    It's not the best, but it's not bad. It's actually not that bad for gaming, or for most other tasks. Just don't expect to run Motion, or do heavy duty video editing on a MacBook, that's all. You can still run CounterStrike, or newer games at medium quality.

    Yes, the graphics card is good enough for you to check email, use Word, organize a 5000 photo library in iPhoto, use iMovie, watch movies, etc. Photoshop won't be negatively affected. In fact, the Intel Integrated graphics we're getting now is better than some of the video cards that were put in the PowerBooks from 12 months ago, especially that Nvidia 5200 they kept putting into the 12" PowerBooks.


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    Is the 15" MBP worth the extra cost over the 13.3" MB?

    Well, depends what you do. Paying an extra grand or so for a nice MBP isn't a ripoff at all despite the similar performance numbers you're going to get. You wouldn't be paying for performance this time. You're paying for the practicality of having a larger screen, higher resolution, and a dedicated graphics card. If you don't need such things, then yes, it's a ripoff. But if you intend on doing video editing on this machine, the 15" and 17" MBPs aren't a bad way to do it.

    The 1280x800 resolution of the MB would be much too limiting to do video work on a long-term basis, and would be too slow because of the lack of a dedicated GPU.

    The 15" MBP is only a ripoff if you don't do video editing or high intensity gaming.
     
  2. dylan macrumors 6502

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    #2
    I agree completely.

    Integrated graphics are the way to go for the consumer machines. If you want to play games get a console. I know I don't want to pay extra for a fancy graphics card.
     
  3. swingerofbirch macrumors 68030

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    #3
    I don't mind the black costing extra because I prefer the white anyhow, since it matches the cords, and I already have a white iPod.

    In the past Apple made it so that certain features could only be had with a certain color--like for a high end iMac you had to go with snow or graphite. Blue could only be had with lesser features.

    The only way I would have minded would be if say only the 2 ghz chip were available in the black model. Since that isn't the case, I have no cause for complaint.

    But once I get my money saved up, I'm going for a tricked out white MacBook.

    As for people who WANT a black MacBook, I feel your pain. I guess there are two questions: do you want it $150 worth? And secondly, what sort of weird mind games is Apple playing charging extra for it? It's definitely weird.
     
  4. Abstract thread starter macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #4
    But the concept of paying for something that you find externally more attractive isn't new. We do the same for t-shirts. Take off the print on the front of the shirt, and what do you get? Yep, a plain $5.00 t-shirt.


    This place is going loony over the smallest things to the point where nobody seemed clear on how they felt, when things are really simple if you stop, think, and break things down.
     
  5. JRM PowerPod macrumors 6502

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    #5
    And that is why i ordered one.
    Good summation.

    Leave the Quad for the heavy crap
     
  6. steelfist macrumors 6502a

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    #6
    i agree with all your points completly.

    for the color, just imagine that apple's doing a bit of colorware buisness now.
    you expect colorware to sell the computers at the same price as the original?
     
  7. russed macrumors 68000

    russed

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    #7
    here, here. everything you said i fully agree with.


    can we make this thread a sticky please and whenever some newbie turns up with a macbook rant lets ban them till they read this!
     
  8. netdog macrumors 603

    netdog

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    #8
    Obviously many people agree with this post as opposed to the opinions of the whiners and whingers so present online to criticize Apple's every move. The proof is in the pudding -- Apple Stores get shipments of these almost every day and they can't keep them in stock...especially the black ones.
     
  9. Chundles macrumors G4

    Chundles

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    #9
    I want a blackBook, purely because it looks like the old G3 PowerBooks. Nostalgia and the future together as one. Awesome.
     
  10. yoda13 macrumors 65816

    yoda13

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  11. Deepdale macrumors 68000

    Deepdale

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    #11
    The OP has solid reasoning throughout and should be helpful to those undecided on issues that really do not affect them. Many people tend to overestimate the kind of processing power they need, when in actuality they may rarely use even 40% of what their unit possesses.
     
  12. shadowmoses macrumors 68000

    shadowmoses

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    #12
    Thanks to Abstract for a very well resoned and argued article, this should definatly be made a sticky at elast for a few weeks as there is a constant influx of MacBook questions answered in this post.

    ShadoW
     
  13. mccldwll macrumors 65816

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    #13
    No. It's a rip-off. With cars, other colors actually cost more because of the material/labor in the two step process which includes a separate clearcoat. The macbook is a small moulded piece of plastic that doesn't cost apple much more, if any, to produce. It targets consumers who want the color, business people who need the color, and produces a huge profit margin for apple per blackbook out of thin air. They should at least throw in a large jar of KY.
     
  14. devilot Moderator emeritus

    devilot

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    #14
    I agree about the car color... metallic paints and ones w/ varying shades of colors do cost more simply because it often takes more paint mixed together to attain a specific color.

    But Abstract is right about the concept--- clothes, all the time, at all retailers will have seasonal colors/shades and at the end of a season, those seasonal colors will be discounted. The "basic" colors such as black and white are almost never discounted.
     
  15. iHeartTheApple macrumors 6502

    iHeartTheApple

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    #15
    Thank you for the advice. I agree with you completely and this is something that others should really try to understand before trying to decide between the MB and MBP.

    Noooooo! Don't bring the dead sexy PB into this...the aluminum is beautiful and should stay! :p In fact, I'm dreading the day when the MBP case redesign comes out. :eek: Will it be with the Merom? I hope they recognize the elegance of that style and keep it going.

    I'm actually curious about the validity of this statement. I honestly don't know the answer...that's why I'm asking. Does this type of video card really make video editing faster, etc.? I know for a fact that the dedicated video with more/faster ram and 3D capabilities makes state-of-the-art gaming much better than integrated grfx, but how much of an effect does this *really* have on video editing, etc.? :confused:

    I can understand that the larger screen/more pixels is favorable over the 13.3", but I thought that for 2D, the integrated video is just as good as the dedicated *except* for the fact that it shares RAM with OS X... Do I have it right? :eek: Thanks! :)
     
  16. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #16
    Yes, but... the huge premium for black (and face facts, it is huge) plays into the hands of Apple's critics, who already say that Apple sells fashion accessories instead of serious computers. Remember just a few months ago, when Steve introduced a $100 leather iPod case, and everybody said, "you have got to be kidding"? That's precisely how I feel now about the black MacBook tax.
     
  17. ncook06 macrumors regular

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    #17
    Thank you so much for speaking my mind!!! Shared graphics are just fine for anyone not doing intense video editing or gaming.

    Personally, I don't understand why you would buy a computer to play games on when you can get a console to do it just as well...:rolleyes:
     
  18. SC68Cal macrumors 68000

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    #18
    I think what everyone forgets is that the integrated graphics in the new MacBook outperforms the GPU that was in the older iBooks. So, we haven't lost performance, it's just that everyone got a little overexcited (as usual) and like always, got dissapointed when Apple didn't release a $1000 macbook pro, named the MacBook.

    To those that do not like the Black MacBook, don't buy it. If the consumers don't think $150 is a fair price to pay for black color, then it won't sell! Vote with your wallet!
     
  19. russed macrumors 68000

    russed

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    #19
    buying the black macbook is the purchasers choice. if you want the black and are willing to pay the premium, then buy it. if you are not willing to pay if, you dont buy it.

    the black will be more rare and hence you are paying a premium for rarity and exclusivity. call it a fashion statement. (whether or not it is a fashion statement is also upto the buyer - as we all know, one persons idea of cool, is not anothers).

    dont also forget if apple made black and white at the same price (and two different models at each colour) then apple would have to work out how many of each to produce, companies will have to judge how many of each colour to stock and generally it would make things a hell of a lot more complicated!

    if you dont like it, dont buy it, but PLEASE do stop complaining about it.
     
  20. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #20
    Number one, this is precisely what Apple did with the iMacs and the first version of the iBook, and the iPod nano. No premium was charged for any color. Number two, last I checked, we were entitled to our opinions.
     
  21. Abulia macrumors 68000

    Abulia

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    #21
    Yea, 'cause that's a good way to introduce new users to the Apple lineup of products...banning them. :rolleyes:
     
  22. russed macrumors 68000

    russed

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    #22
    im not saying people are not intitled to their opinions (quite the opposite i quite like JS Mills position in On Liberty in theory). what is annoying me is that there are loads of people coming up and complaining about it just saying 'it costs more that sucks'. yes it may well do but there are obviously a few reasons why apple has done this apart from just profits. they know people want black macbooks yet they want to keep them exclusive, this is obvious because the slower model would be in black also. people will buy the black macbook because either they just like the black (and are willing to pay the extra) or because they want it to be a bit more unique. i see nothing wrong with this.
     
  23. russed macrumors 68000

    russed

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    #23
    there is a difference between turning up and asking a worthwile question as opposed to turning up and just spouting out something that has been said a loads of times already.

    you would expect that for people to actually join these forums that they are interested in macs or looking into buying one and hence will have read around - if so they would have more than likely have already seen the forums and the huge numbers of threads on the exact same topics!
     
  24. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #24
    The only reason Apple has priced the black MacBook so much higher than the equivalent white MacBook is profits. They think some people will pay a $150 premium for the color, which is pure profit. That's okay, as far as it goes (and as a stockholder, I hope they sell millions of them), but I have stated a problem with this pricing scheme that does not rely on saying that "it sucks."
     
  25. beatle888 macrumors 68000

    beatle888

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    #25

    yes but that doesnt make it any less of a rip off and thats Abstracts whole argument. hes saying we're ripped off all the time so its ok. :rolleyes: his other points seem to be clear though.

    maybe apple KNOWS the white macbook will sell like hot cakes so they can manage the manufacturing process with less overhead. the black macbook is a little iffy. so to compensate for the extra energy and resources to manage the manufacturing of the black macbook, along with possibly ordering at a smaller quantity, warrented a different price than the white?

    i think the flat black is borring. i think that they should mix textures a lot more to make it interesting. flat and glossy would be more appealing. they do this a little here and there but it would be more appealing to me if it was more prominent.
     

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