Why Window Users Won't Switch

[nate]

Since I've got a Mac, I've been happy. I've found that the Mac makes my day more productive. Now that I've had my Powerbook for a few months, I can honestly say that I wouldn't want to go back to Windows system.

And when things do go wrong, it’s easy it fix, and it doesn't happen very often. The most resent one was the kernel crashes because my airport card must of came loose. I have a laptop, so that makes sense. Fixing was easy.

Meanwhile, my Windows-using friends constantly complain about the problems they have. It makes my problems seem trivial. I've done a lot of Windows fixing in my time, and occasionally I get asked to help some one with their Windows computer; I virus-scan it, I Adware it, I re-boot it, and I even reinstall it. Win-users have to defrag and use a myriad of tools to tweak up Windows in hopes that it'll work better -- at least until next week. Meanwhile, I haven't had to bother with many tweaks at all, making my three-minute 'repair permissions' hardly a chore. Windows takes up a lot of your time: it's a high maintenance OS. Mac just boogies.

I have a virus scanner, from .mac, and I have yet to run into a virus. I've scanned my computer twice, and still, I found nothing. My Windows friends seem to scan a whole lot, and virus finding is a weekly ritual. I don’t have to suffer the downtime that a virus provides.

So why won't they switch? I've been asking, and these are some of the things I found out:

But everyone else uses Windows

This, by far, is what I hear most often. They will admit, although, "I hate Windows." Most of these people view Windows as a necessary evil, which they must use it in today’s world to get by.

I've told them that Macs are compatible. I can open Word files, MP3s, JPGs, and almost every other file. I can't however, use Windows software.

There is Virtual PC -- I have it, but I never use it now. I got virtual PC because the word is out that you need Windows to work with the rest of the world. Since then, I found this to be untrue. I can see the value of Virtual PC when can only get software for a PC.

For some people, however, they must go with Windows due to work. Windows (Microsoft) has a large market share compared to Apple, and people see that. Some see it as proof that Windows must be better, or that there is no real choice: they must accept Windows as is.


There's no software for Macs

Available software is important, and many Win-users believe that there is little software for available for Apple computers. Why? Because they walk into a computer store and see isles and isles of "PC" software, but not "Mac" software. (The boxes say "PC CDROM"; sorry, but much of the world now thinks PC means Windows, software companies seem to reflect that.)

I tell my friends that there's a lot of software online, but they are skeptic. Not everyone is ready to type in their credit card number and buy products online. There are a few stores that carry Mac-compatible software. Most of those software stores have Macs hidden in a back-corner somewhere, or they don't display them.

Future Shop (Canada) is a supposed carrier of Mac products -- yet the stores will not display the Mac software or Mac Computers. London Drugs does display the computers and software. Compu-smart has a little Mac corner, and the rest of the store is Windows-based computers. We have two small Mac-only stores. The University also sells Macs. No Apple store here.

Windows-based computers get more exposure. People who work on commission, such as Future Shop, won't bother with the Mac stuff because they view it as a non-selling item. As one of their salespeople about an Apple computer and they'll try to convince you that you should get a PC. (I tried asking in two Future Shops, both tried to sell me Win-computers.) They, of course, work on commission and the commission for an Apple computer is very little compared to the commission on some Windows box.

For Apple, getting Apple exposed on the storefront level is a great challenge. More people carry and sell Windows computers, than Apple computers.


It's too expensive

With Windows, you can slap it into any box you want and sell it for a cheap price. It's been my experience, however, that Windows crashes more in cheaper computers than in high-end computers. I also find that high-end computers cost about the same as an Apple computer. But people want to budget and coming across 'el cheapo' sounds like a deal. Usually it's not, but people go for it anyways.


Apples aren't as good as Windows

For some reason a lot of people hold up to this. They often ask the salesperson at Future Shop and they'll say, "Oh sure, Windows is the best -- you should check out our line of computers, it's on sale -- Oh, Apple, yeah it's not very good, you don't want it."

Others look at the Apple and think that it must be hard to use. And the mouse only has one button (oh my!). And, "where's the start menu?"

I figured my Mac out in less than an hour.

I had one guy who tried telling me that Apple was copying windows since Apple just came into the computer world. I laughed at that and told him that it's the other way around and apples were around a lot longer than Windows and Microsoft -- Gates used to work for apple. "No," he'd say in disbelief. But it's true.


Misconceptions abound, and they are carried forward through sellers, friends, and family alike. When I've told people that I have a "Mac" they give me a sour face and say, "Macs suck." When I ask them why, usually they don't know or they rely on what someone else told them: no software, won't work with windows, etc.

I find that home users are more willing to use and accept Windows as is (problems and all). Where as professionals more and more are choosing an Apple Computer. I'm in the creative field, and that field is full of Mac users (very full).

With the amount of Window problems, especially with the recent ones, more and more people are looking for an alternative. But I think what makes people hesitate before making the big jump is fear.

All of the Apple myths are based on fear: Fear of leaving Windows for a better computer-user relationship with Apple. Isn't it about time let go and switch?

--nate

 

[Fukui]

All of the Apple myths are based on fear: Fear of leaving Windows for a better computer-user relationship with Apple. Isn't it about time let go and switch?

--nate

This is exactly the reason for there being Apple Stores IMO.
And maybe to another extent, iPods.
Some people are open minded, some not, but once they walk into one
of those stores...

 

[Krizoitz]

LEGITIMATE REASONS FOR NOT SWITCHING

Gamers: Sorry, if you are a hard core gamer its still more advantageous and economical to stick with windows. Besides if all you use Windows for is to install and open the games, stability isn't too much of a problem

People with lots of money invested in Windows software: I have a friend who does graphics and web design who would LOVE to switch to mac, but its expensive to rebuy all that software for Mac even though, yes its a available.

Niche software: For some there are only apps out there available for windows, admittedly its usually obscure but it does exist. Hopefully this one improves as the Mac market continues to grow.

People who actually are more productive on Windows: I have some friends who have spent time on both platforms and actually do feel more productive and comfortable on windows, its rare but it happens.

NON-LEGITIMATE REASONS TO SWITCH

Its more expensive: Study after study shows that the long term investment can actually be cheaper, heck even when comparing machines with similar specs Macs are competative sometimes even cheaper. Sure you can get dirt-cheap PC's, but they are dirt.

No software: Gimme a break, how many word-proccesors do you need? Other than games you aren't missing out. Not to mention 100 crappy software programs aren't exactly an advantage.

Everyone else uses windows: So what? Files are still compatible. You can e-mail, send photos, chat, share wordproccesor apps, etc. Everyone used to think the world was flat too. Mob mentalities aren't great.

 

[comictimes]

This is exactly the reason for there being Apple Stores IMO.
And maybe to another extent, iPods.
Some people are open minded, some not, but once they walk into one
of those stores...

I actually hadn't thought of this before, but it's a good point. People will go to an apple store in order to find the apple product which has gotten the most attention, ipods. However, by going into the store, and seeing what apple offers, Windows users are introduced to macs, and some, hopefully, will switch as a result of this...
Also, does anyone have any idea why apple is seen by so many people as a horrible company to be associated with? I mean, while the ipod is the best- known apple product, and its sales are incredibly high, if you look at any set of "user opinions" of it, such as those on cnet, or the comments whenever a place like bensbargains.net posts something on the ipod, at least half of the people will say that it is stupid or gay or whatever, simply because it is an apple product...

 

[FuzzyBallz]

One word: Cost. As some one mentioned, people can get a game or work PC for as little as $500 or less, depending on whether one's retail or DIY. A Mac on the other hand doesn't come cheap. period.

 

[Mav451]

Expensive to the general public?

No, if you factor in the general public's overall lower computer competence, then Macs will have lower TCO, and lower daily "time/productivity" opportunity loss.

Expensive to enthusiasts?

Yes, very much so.

An enthusiast can construct a mid-range system, with high-quality, brand-name components for easily < $800. You want to see my $500 bill for my setup + $86 for 512MB RAM, purchased last year, you can PM me for it. Actually, better yet, I'll post a screenshot of it as I've already posted it a few times on this forum, and some people STILL refuse to believe its possible.

*Yeah, I didn't buy a new video card--I just reused the ATi 8500 I had in my old box*

This is something I wish Apple would do, but doesn't--barebones? Maybe I'm dreaming, but the point is that alot of people have components (hard drives, SuperDrive, video cards, etc.) that they'd love to recycle into their new system...but even with BTO, this problem can't really be alleviated. These components can cost up to two, or three hundred dollars EASILY.

(E.g. video card = 100, Super drive = 150, 80gig HD = 50).

If there was a headless iMac G5, with a BTO "barebone" option, those three hundred dollars saved would be huge in the iMac's $1200-2000 range, but ESPECIALLY at the lower end. Imagine being able to take $300 off a $1500 iMac, for example, because you already have a SuperDrive/ATi 9600. And of course, b/c I made this situation up we'll say the educational discount still applies...voila! A mid-range iMac G5, for $1080ish, b/c you didn't need to purchase the off-the-shelf model...haha I wish

The lost time/productivity argument pretty much goes out the window when Firefox is used, BV's services tweak is applied, and Spybot S&D is installed.

(1) Firefox is used--this has no bearing on productivity, in fact, it actually increased my productivity with NO pop-up ads, versatile extensions that block annoying Flash/"Click Me" ads on-page, tabs, etc.

(2) BV's service tweak is a one time thing. Click it and its done.
It is not a "daily maintenance" thing. This tweak is done once, and only once (at installation, now, tomorrow, tonight, basically anytime). And, while reducing bloat, it increases stability b/c a lot of those bloated services are actually causing the instability in the first place.

(3) Spybot S&D:
It serves 2 purposes for me:

a) If I am, forced to use IE for some unforgiving site, then Spybot has already blocked Active X and malicious dialer download vulnerabilities. Again, one-click is all it takes.

b) If, and it is a big if, some form of adware/spyware slips through Firefox, then Spybot will remove it for me. I have run Spybot a whole 3 times in the past 8 months. It only found spyware when I had to use IE for a e-card...it was my big mistake -_-. Other than that unfortunate intrustion, Firefox makes spyware a thing of the past...isn't it ironic how the Firefox switching campagin mirrors alot of the word choice and tone of an Apple switch campaign?

("more productive", "no spyware", "less expensive to maintain", etc.)

 

[Jalexster]

I know a person (who I talk too over MSN Messenger) who once I told him that I have a Mac, sadi that they sucked. Just plain sucked.
I asked him why.

He said the usual things; no software, not compatible, etc...
But he also said some of the stupidest things i've ever heard like:

Windows is more stable than Mac OS X
ALL Mac hardware is propriatary
No Games at all for Mac
Mac OS X sucks becauase it is based on Unix
He says only Linux is good
Linux more stable than Unix, and is a better server.
Mac OS X dosen't support SSH, FTP, etc...
He claims that Mac OS X dosen't support Apache

I'd like to know where he pulled these things from. He claims to know alot about computers. On a similar note, he has a website which he hosts himself, and is running a crappy router, that dosen't block all ports (only port 80 should be open), and he claims he dosen't need a software firewall. He also claims that ZoneAlarm sucks.

I have no idea what is wrong with him. Oh wait, yes I do: He is an anti-Mac fanboy.

I really wish people would learn...

 

[Timelessblur]

You know I figure I might like to point out some windows uses have very valid reasons for not switching over to a mac. Me being one of them. I do plan on buying my self a Apple lap top in a few years because I will not have those issues on the laptop(basicly right before my last year of collage got to take advatage of the student discount).I see laptops as sendondy computers and I am talking from experices here on trying to make a laptop my primery computer and it just sorely lacks compared to a desktop in power. I see laptops as moble computers.


Either way my primery machein will more than likely always be a windows based computer.
Reasons
1. I like to play computer games. I am not a big gamers but there are a lot of computer games I like to play. Most of these games are not adviable for Macs end of story.
2. Lack of software and for me it is a legimet reason. I am currently in school working on becoming a civil engineer I currently use Autocad quite a bit and on the mac well it sucks (I have used it so I do know). It lags behind the windows verson of it by 4-5+ years. It does not have as many add on packages for it. Mac is short on drafting software. My degree is in a field that uses auto. I do some light programing and there are issues programing on macs that come up from time to time in compailing where it will run on the mac but you can not get it to run on a PC where it will be graded. I uses a program call mathCad Very very heavy and there is no verson of it advible for macs. Also there is a lot of downloaded programs that you can only really find for PCs but not a big deal.

3. The oh no spyware and virsue I dont deal with I tend to really keep my computer up to date really well and automaticed most of it for me. I run a firewall (and any one who does not needs to it not a good idea not to run one if you have hispeed). Spyware well general adaware keeps me pretty clean and then again there my firewall. Also I dont use IE I use Firefox now and it a great brower

4. Yeah the PC was a cheaper to build and what not. I got all my software legitly. from nouthing to fullbuild monitor speakers and all 2100. about 550 of that was for my monitor. There is no mac computer short of a the G5 tower macs that take my computer. yeah the Daul G5 will be a lot faster than mine but it also cost 600 more with monitor and I have a lot more ram and better video card that it. Upgrade those you get the idea. the g5 Imac that are coming out my beable to match my computer for speed but it going to cost them more than I paid.

5. You can not build a mac from the noughting and I really enjoyed building my first PC. AMD 64 is my CPU so I do have a 64 bit and by the in the next few months SP2 comes out and it will start using some of that power. (WOOHOO)



Are macs good yes. Would a lot of windows uses gain advatage on them yes. But there are people like me who have very good reason for not switching. I though about it when I build my computer a week ago but for the reason above I choose not 2.

 

[MyLeftNut]

Beat me to the punch!

Since totally switching I've noticed a few things...

I get strange looks from my friends when they ask me about what computer I use. Almost like, "I don't know you anymore" or "Am I talking to a criminal or something?". I dont even bother with arguments, but the looks I get annoy me.

It's definitely a misunderstanding on their part, but I also think that when PC users get together there are a lot of relationships that are created by people sharing problems. Its almost like a status thing with PC users, sort of like; "Well, I got this new video card and it's giving me so much trouble but I sorted it out by downloading and installing such and such, blah, blah, blah...", a game of one-upmanship.

The response might be, "Yeah I know what you mean, I had similar trouble with drivers etc, but I managed to fix it after 2 hours of stuffing around".

Its almost like having problems and fixing them is a badge of honour or something. That frustrates me. Not because I dont have problems with my Mac (just not that many) but other PC users dont know how to relate to me and I'm standing there thinking, 'These people are not PC geeks, they should get away from all this', to which they'll ask me about similar problems on the Mac. I can only say I havent had any relating to drivers/viruses/hardware conflicts etc and the looks are of absolute disbelief. End of conversation.

Sounds like I'm a snob right? Not really. I think with Apple's mindshare there is a bit of jealousy or envy when others realise you've spent what appears to be a lot of money on a computer. Apple is probably a bit to blame for that one, but its the same in nearly every product category where a manufacturer is more discerning in terms of design or manufacture. Its not as if you can't spend the same amount of money on a PC, just that, as the saying goes, results may vary.

I have learned to put together a couple of PCs by purchasing all the components and learning to do setups etc and that has been a steep learning curve. But what a f**king waste of time. Saved some money but time is more important, I can't buy back the time I lost!!

Do I think Macs should rule market share. Its not necessary, but I think with a multiplicity of OSes openly working with each other it could help people out of their narrow mindsets. Its the mindset that has everyone stuck, (I used to be one of them), don't worry it takes time to come out of it and I wasn't convinced for a while but after I matched my expectations with reality I could deal with the changeover.

I too have worked with XP and installed Spybot etc but Im constantly irritated by reports of security breaches et al. XP is fine but it lacks finesse and most people are happy with that. If Longhorn becomes a quagmire of issues as some people believe don't worry there will be switchers a plenty.

 

[7on]

lol, they only problem I couldn't solve with my Mac was the recent Sherlock fiasco (if you know my from the IRC channel you'd have an idea). Turned out I could fix it. Apple was having server problems.

People don't use Macs because Apple has basically no advertising. They had good sales when advertising was the best in the biz, but now Dell has the majority of all computer sales -- yet they are the crappiest manufacturers. This is because there is at least one Dell commercial on at anytime of the day. I exceptionally like the term paper one, because someone could have lost his term paper on a Dell too -- both computers used Windows. It just struck me as odd that a hardware seller was boosting superior OS... when it used the same OS 97% that other manufacturers used. Oh well, more advertising can never be a bad thing. Jeff Goldbum is though.

 

[hulugu]

Linux/OSS makes PCs suck less

Expensive to enthusiasts?

Yes, very much so.

An enthusiast can construct a mid-range system, with high-quality, brand-name components for easily < $800....*Yeah, I didn't buy a new video card--I just reused the ATi 8500 I had in my old box*
[/QUOTE]

Enthusiasts and hardcore PC gamers would be better off on a Wintel box, but the trouble with using the above quote is first you have to add in the cost of a video card, reusing the parts from other machines isn't fair to the cost of a new Mac which does have a new video card. But, that's just nitpicking.
For the enthusiast who knows what he or she is doing building a computer can be great fun and a very cheap way to get a really impressively spec'd computer, however I have seen many a kludge job with homebuilt PCs. There are numerous machines I've dealt with that were 'built by my nephew' that were totally buggy with mismatched parts and drivers. So, again I think the TCO can come to bear negatively against homebuilt machines.
Lastly, the maintenance for PCs is ridiculous, even a well-maintained machine running Firefox, Spybot, Adaware, etc. will still begin to have problems, I managed to gnarl the registry on mine just by adding and removing two programs I needed for temporary use. I spent a good hour reformatting everything and then replacing the files that had been erased so my settings were back in order.
It's amazing how much time you can waste just coddling a PC through the day.
The hardware isn't the problem really, its the software really.

Lastly, Windows users ..."don't buy Macs because [they] don't know anyone who can fix them!" Actual quote from a guy who insists that PCs are better than Macs.
Windows is like a crack habit, there are enablers (sysadmins at home and at work), dealers (Dell, HP, Alienware) and cartels (Microsoft), including the addiction and the psychological reflex to keep on doing the same thing because it's comfortable.
People use Windows because they're afraid of change, they're afraid of being different, they're afraid to learn a new concept (news flash, if you could learn how to use Windows, you must certainly retain the faculties to learn OSX; it doesn't come stamped into your brain just yet), they're afraid they'll spend too much, and they're afraid because of all the Fear Uncertainty and Doubt that is passed around about Apple. (beleaguered anyone?)

 

[hulugu]

Do I think Macs should rule market share. Its not necessary, but I think with a multiplicity of OSes openly working with each other it could help people out of their narrow mindsets.

Exactly, there are some standards that can be used to make this happen: Mp3, JPEG, email, Java, PDF, RTF, HTML, etc. And if there was a fairly even spread of OSes out there a new product would be *required* to work with other systems. Then you could have the best tool for the job.

I'd be happy with 20% OSX, 55% Windows (let them keep their largesse, it will be the first target for Russian crackers), 20% Linux, and the remaining to various remaining *NIX products.
Hell I'd be happy if OSX was 10%.

 

[Mav451]

Expensive to enthusiasts?

Yes, very much so.

An enthusiast can construct a mid-range system, with high-quality, brand-name components for easily < $800....*Yeah, I didn't buy a new video card--I just reused the ATi 8500 I had in my old box*

Enthusiasts and hardcore PC gamers would be better off on a Wintel box, but the trouble with using the above quote is first you have to add in the cost of a video card, reusing the parts from other machines isn't fair to the cost of a new Mac which does have a new video card. But, that's just nitpicking.
For the enthusiast who knows what he or she is doing building a computer can be great fun and a very cheap way to get a really impressively spec'd computer, however I have seen many a kludge job with homebuilt PCs. There are numerous machines I've dealt with that were 'built by my nephew' that were totally buggy with mismatched parts and drivers. So, again I think the TCO can come to bear negatively against homebuilt machines.
Lastly, the maintenance for PCs is ridiculous, even a well-maintained machine running Firefox, Spybot, Adaware, etc. will still begin to have problems, I managed to gnarl the registry on mine just by adding and removing two programs I needed for temporary use. I spent a good hour reformatting everything and then replacing the files that had been erased so my settings were back in order.
It's amazing how much time you can waste just coddling a PC through the day.
The hardware isn't the problem really, its the software really.

Lastly, Windows users ..."don't buy Macs because [they] don't know anyone who can fix them!" Actual quote from a guy who insists that PCs are better than Macs.
Windows is like a crack habit, there are enablers (sysadmins at home and at work), dealers (Dell, HP, Alienware) and cartels (Microsoft), including the addiction and the psychological reflex to keep on doing the same thing because it's comfortable.
People use Windows because they're afraid of change, they're afraid of being different, they're afraid to learn a new concept (news flash, if you could learn how to use Windows, you must certainly retain the faculties to learn OSX; it doesn't come stamped into your brain just yet), they're afraid they'll spend too much, and they're afraid because of all the Fear Uncertainty and Doubt that is passed around about Apple. (beleaguered anyone?)

Well, its your word against mine. Anecdotal vs. anecdotal -_-

Since nearly all the people I know who have built computers, completely illiterate to comp sci majors, were all done well--because they did the research BEFOREHAND. What might also be an issue is that they are all college students, so again, this may have a bearing on the quality of "home-built". I, too, did not build until I was in my sophmore year (2003). There's no way in hell I would trust a middle schooler to build my PC, a high schooler, MAYBE, just maybe if he was experienced enough.

On registry getting blown by programs? That the program's fault, not necessarily the OS itself. I've installed tons of games and the odd number of programs on my computer, legit AND unlegit. Nowhere in these installation/uninstallations did I run into any registry problem. The supposed "slowdown" hasn't been experienced by myself at all--I'm going 16 months strong, just like its new. I do, however, use JV16 PowerTools to clear out old entries, ocassionally. Maybe every 2-3 months, heck, more like every start of the semester...which is like only twice a year.

I do know one guy who had to reformat, unrelated to registry problem from install/uninstall. He ran one of those "turn your PC into a Mac" programs...and apparently the program didn't back up the original XP icon/images. And for that reason, he reformatted, only b/c he hated the fake Mac look.

I, of course, was also slightly considering that option--however I got my iBook a few weeks later (and of course I heard of his experience), so that was avoided

 

[mfogel2002]

i have been buying in to the "everyone has windows" and "there is more out there for the pc" excuses for several years ..... then i finally liberated my self from the evil world that is windows a few days ago. i was a little worried at first but my mac powerbook is so easy to use. it is a little hard to find things but i am catching on quick.

 

[m.r.m.]

to start of let me say, i own a windows desktop pc (amd athlon64 3000+, ati 9600xt) and a 12" powerbook. of the 2 i much prefer my powerbook because of it's superior os. i'd much rather only have macs (i dream of a powermac with the new 20" display). however, i am a hardcore gamer; actually, i only play one game. i'm a fairly decent and successful counterstrike player. this game (mind you it's the most popular game on the internet worldwide) hasn't been ported to the mac. imo apple should sit down with the folks at valve and other gaming studios and work out something that all big future releases should be ported to the mac. teenage boys spend a immense amount of money on pc's. it's never the cost of a powermac+display, but they buy a new computer close to once in 1,5-2 years. catering to this group will get you a huge chunk of the market. not just for now, but future customers as well. imho apple is too locked up on their business clients. not everyone is in photo and graphics. macs have been heralded for years to be better for such tasks (like photoshop etc. etc.), i think getting into the gaming market is just a logical step. why give up customers without offering a choice? for all you out there who say that there are plenty of games available for macs, not a single progamer i've ever heard of plays on a mac. these are the players countless teenagers look up to. pro counterstrike players often make between $1500-3000 a month. warcraft 3 players in korea f.e. get appartments additionally. you wouldn't believe the amount of teens buying intel, amd, ati, nvidia windows computers, because their favourite players use such machines.

 

[ddtlm]

Here's a reason everyone has missed: because they don't care. A lot of people do not want to spend any time thinking about it, and PCs familiar, cheap, and everywhere. I know a lot of those people.

Anyway, on the cost side, at the house where me and some friends live we've got 4 pretty good gaming PCs, 3 large Linux software raids, and a few other misc Linux and Windows machines playing firewall, desktop and music machines. (And my Mac, a dual G4 800.) So how would that work in Mac-land?

First lets get those raid boxen out of the way. They have no equivelent in Mac-land. I take a cheap case and saw holes in it wherever it seems right, put fans all over, pack it with disks, old hardware that was in gaming machines, throw on Linux and boom there's your 1TB dirt cheap reliable raid. We can do this for pretty much the cost of disks, 7 to 9 per machine.

Those gaming machines in Apple land would each be a G5. We upgrade the gaming machines just whenever it seems appropriate, and spend just exactly what we want to spend to fix the slow spots. Doom 3 will probably see 2 or 3 of the 4 getting significant upgrades. Lots of video card boosts and possibly a couple of them will go to A64's from ~2ghz Athlons. The equivilent of that would be really painful in Apple land, we'd be looking at a new G5 or two.

3 of our 4 gaming machines are in cases that are 6+ years old, 2 of the 4 with original CD drives, 1 of the 4 with an original power supply (got quiet ones). They have outlived monitors, outlived residences. Those cases have seen K6's, Celerons, Durons, and Athlons, they've been PC66, PC100, PC133, DDR266, DDR 333, DDR 400 RAM, they've seen voodoo2's, Rivas, G200s, G400s, GF 4200's, Radeons, R-9700's, they've gone from plain CD-ROMs to DVD writers.

How many brand-new Macs would I have had to purchase over the years to achieve that feat? Where would those beige G3's be today? A typical motherboard/processor combo stays in a gaming machine for 1.5 years max I figure, and since Macs can't upgrade the motherboard I'm thinking that we'd be looking a 4 generations of shiny-new high-end PMacs to keep up with our ever-morphing PCs. 4 generations of 4 machines per generation: easily $45k of Macs. But, you say, since for a long time Macs did not significantly advance then we wouldn't need to upgrade the machines! Heh heh. Yeah true, I'm being generous even assuming that Macs could have kept up during those years.

Anyway, nice to see that G5's and OSX are here but we'll be meeting them with A64's, windows patches, firewalls and happy wallets. Definately no reason to switch. It really is not that hard to keep a Windows machine running smoothly.

 

[Xenious]

Just switched

Finally the new monitors came out and I've switched. (It counts if its still on order doesn't it? eheh)

What I will miss from the Windows world:
New games (god bless blizzard)
Microsoft Money (Can't stand Quicken)
Microsoft Streets and Trips (I do not like Route 66 at all)
Microsoft Media Center (no good TV hardware exists for mac with digital cable box control)

How do I plan on fixing them? That's easy, dual monitors with a KVM switch. I get the best of both worlds. My windows box is still around for playing new games and watching TV. I can update my video card if needed and my 2 year old 2.5GHz chip is still usable.

My Mac is my true joy for doing my day to day work. If a game comes out for both platforms I'm set. If not I just get the Windows version and lump it.

To the person that mentioned a high cost of switching: Give your software companies a call (if they make the same products for mac) and ask about cross-platform upgrades. I got adobe to give me a cross platform upgrade for $5 shipping (your current copy has to be the same version).
-jim

 

[Mav451]

Here's a reason everyone has missed: because they don't care. A lot of people do not want to spend any time thinking about it, and PCs familiar, cheap, and everywhere. I know a lot of those people.

Anyway, on the cost side, at the house where me and some friends live we've got 4 pretty good gaming PCs, 3 large Linux software raids, and a few other misc Linux and Windows machines playing firewall, desktop and music machines. (And my Mac, a dual G4 800.) So how would that work in Mac-land?

First lets get those raid boxen out of the way. They have no equivelent in Mac-land. I take a cheap case and saw holes in it wherever it seems right, put fans all over, pack it with disks, old hardware that was in gaming machines, throw on Linux and boom there's your 1TB dirt cheap reliable raid. We can do this for pretty much the cost of disks, 7 to 9 per machine.

Those gaming machines in Apple land would each be a G5. We upgrade the gaming machines just whenever it seems appropriate, and spend just exactly what we want to spend to fix the slow spots. Doom 3 will probably see 2 or 3 of the 4 getting significant upgrades. Lots of video card boosts and possibly a couple of them will go to A64's from ~2ghz Athlons. The equivilent of that would be really painful in Apple land, we'd be looking at a new G5 or two.

3 of our 4 gaming machines are in cases that are 6+ years old, 2 of the 4 with original CD drives, 1 of the 4 with an original power supply (got quiet ones). They have outlived monitors, outlived residences. Those cases have seen K6's, Celerons, Durons, and Athlons, they've been PC66, PC100, PC133, DDR266, DDR 333, DDR 400 RAM, they've seen voodoo2's, Rivas, G200s, G400s, GF 4200's, Radeons, R-9700's, they've gone from plain CD-ROMs to DVD writers.

How many brand-new Macs would I have had to purchase over the years to achieve that feat? Where would those beige G3's be today? A typical motherboard/processor combo stays in a gaming machine for 1.5 years max I figure, and since Macs can't upgrade the motherboard I'm thinking that we'd be looking a 4 generations of shiny-new high-end PMacs to keep up with our ever-morphing PCs. 4 generations of 4 machines per generation: easily $45k of Macs. But, you say, since for a long time Macs did not significantly advance then we wouldn't need to upgrade the machines! Heh heh. Yeah true, I'm being generous even assuming that Macs could have kept up during those years.

Anyway, nice to see that G5's and OSX are here but we'll be meeting them with A64's, windows patches, firewalls and happy wallets. Definately no reason to switch. It really is not that hard to keep a Windows machine running smoothly.

Yes, indeed...the case I had my '99 Athlon Tbird had originally housed a P1 233 with the unstable Intel BX chipset. That beige case saw Windows 95 in 1997, 98 in 1998 and 98SE in '99 while switching to a spanking new Athlon Tbird. And then finally a Athlon Palomino in the Fall of '02 (both are Socket A, mobo switch/upgrade was NOT necessary as it was a seamless upgrade) before finally dying out on me...it was running on a Enlight 250W after all That's 5 years worth of computing, switching out, and well, stress for the years I used the god awful Intel chipset (thank god I got rid of that). I'm not saying the Via KT133 was much better, but perhaps the combination of 98SE and a tested AMD board proved to be less of a headache than Intel's -_-.

 

[Mav451]

Expensive to enthusiasts?
Yes, very much so.

An enthusiast can construct a mid-range system, with high-quality, brand-name components for easily < $800....*Yeah, I didn't buy a new video card--I just reused the ATi 8500 I had in my old box*

Enthusiasts and hardcore PC gamers would be better off on a Wintel box, but the trouble with using the above quote is first you have to add in the cost of a video card, reusing the parts from other machines isn't fair to the cost of a new Mac which does have a new video card. But, that's just nitpicking.
For the enthusiast who knows what he or she is doing building a computer can be great fun and a very cheap way to get a really impressively spec'd computer....

After rereading your post, I do have to be nitpicky

The strength of the PC is exactly that. You can't bring an older video card to a new Mac to save costs--it isn't fair, but its the truth of the situation. You just can't, and that is one of the main strengths of the PC. I could use an old card or a new card in a new PC. Regardless, it is not locked into any one configuration and it can go into a new configuration just as easily.

This is why, again, I emphasize that Apple devise a barebone option. You get the Apple-quality engineered (1) Case + fans (2) Processor (3) Motherboard. The rest (hard drive, Superdrive, video card) can, and SHOULD be recycled from current configurations.

To answer your question, though yes, that makes your old Macs useless (unless you sell those Macs as barebones as well ). But the fact is, would you rather have 2 Macs, one slow and one new, but spending a whole lot more money? Or just ONE new Mac, at a reduced cost?

I'm sure alot of people would love the New Mac, for a reduced cost.

 

[DJY]

I'm a very recent switcher.... and there are a couple of things I think "we Mac" users (notice how quickly my allegance has changed!) need to also throw into the equation...

Most humans are like sheep... pack mentality... group opinion... peer influence... all these things are strong.... basic psychology means a group of people can very easily influence one person.

Linked to this point is that Mac's are a set above... they aren't for everyone... they are more discerning... like people often buy the cheaper car that isn't as reliable, and doesn't contain as many features, and even when you point out these things - there will always be a arange of reasons why people will still buy a cheaper less reliable car.

Another factor that I believe is relevant (and I hope I'm 'not breaking the rules by writing this), is Windoze users believe not only that they have all the software... but it is the illegal software, the crackz, the ability to through several mates, a holiday, or just about anywhere on the net, obtain illegal / free / pirated software - so they don't have to pay full price...

Think about it... I know I did (think about it), and the majority of people I know have software bought from South East Asia for a couple of bucks, or brought home a company version, or borrowed it from a mate, or have a dodgy version of one piece of software, or haven't actually paid and have the full rights to have all the software on their machines.

Thats my quick two cents worth anyway.
I for one as a new switcher am very happy, and now can't believe I didn't listen to my mates years ago! Grat new Powerbook, great OS, everything is good, and already I'm a very proud Mac user... and happy to tell people about it (even when they dothen look at me strangely and ask WHY!??!?!)

 

[aus_dave]

People with lots of money invested in Windows software: I have a friend who does graphics and web design who would LOVE to switch to mac, but its expensive to rebuy all that software for Mac even though, yes its a available.

I'm not sure if this is true, but it has been mentioned here before that it is possible to contact the company and surrender your Windows software license in return for the Mac version (which makes sense to me, but then I'm not Adobe ).

 

[ddtlm]

Mav451:

This is why, again, I emphasize that Apple devise a barebone option. You get the Apple-quality engineered (1) Case + fans (2) Processor (3) Motherboard. The rest (hard drive, Superdrive, video card) can, and SHOULD be recycled from current configurations.

How about nothing more than a "reasonably" priced ATX G5 mobo that will install OSX? I'd go for that.

 

[5300cs]

...On registry getting blown by programs? That the program's fault, not necessarily the OS itself...

If windows was a robustly designed & coded OS, then we wouldn't have to worry about the registry getting screwed up. But it's not, so therefore we have to. Actually, I shouldn't say "we" because I don't use windows.

I'm a member of a computer club in my city, and I'm one of 2-3 people who use Macs, the rest are windows users. Most meeting topics are interesting, but when it comes time to troubleshoot, it's a nightmare and a neverending one at that.

Case in point: at the last meeting the presenters did a demo on sharing files. So they set about trying to share files between a desktop pc w/win2k and a notebook w/xp. It was really quite funny watching them trying to get it to work: "ok, so just click here and.. uh.. ok hold on. Hmmm, it's not showing up, uhhh ... .ok waitasecond...uhh." Then they rebooted the notebook, then the desktop. Then the notebook again. How many times I cannot remember; I wasn't paying attention after the first 10 minutes. Finally, after 25 minutes of moving the machines around, sweating and much profanity, they got it to work. "See? There we go!"

They also wanted to see a Mac demo, so I got Panther & Jaguar to see each other (over wireless mind you, try that with XP & win2k) in under 2 minutes. It was over before it even started.

I've never really understood people who brag about how they built a super athlon positron 5hgz ultra blaster pc for under $300. I'm real proud of you and would pat you on the head if you were here. The thing is though, Macs have never been designed for people who like to tinker with hardware (not since the AppleIIs I think) so the point of those comparisons would be ...? I also wouldn't hold my breath for a bare-bones system if I were you, 'cause I don't see it ever happening.

 

[topicolo]

Here's my two cents:

To the typical ignorant windows user, buying a macintosh seems risky and dangerous. For example, would you invest 3-4 thousand dollars in a computer made by only one company which (to their estimation) could go bankrupt eventually, or buy a windows box and never worry about losing software and technical support since so many more companies and people use windows?

They don't know enough about Apple to make sound decisions and they are unlikely to want find more info on the subject, despite what they're missing out on. Truthfully speaking, there IS more hardware and software support on the windows side (the biggest one for me is 5.1 Dolby Digital sound support built into many new computers nowadays).

On the other hand, the mac is plagued with far fewer adware/spyware and viruses/worms. After finding keyloggers and tons of adware and spyware installed on my computer, I'm getting sick of using ANY windows machine. For this reason alone, I'm getting a powerbook as my next computer.

 

[johnbro23]

For me, I would have never switched if it wasn't for my iPod. I spent a lot of time on the Apple website, and I finally started checking out the other products (i.e. iMacs and PMs). Then I finally found out about this site, and after talking with some of the MR community, I took the plunge and got an eMac. I couldn't be happier. After a month of having my mac, I havent had one major problem.

I'm actually typing this on a Windows machine. I'm on vacation and I'm on my dad's laptop. I thought I'd put in a CD to listen to... so it asks me what I want to do (open it with WMP, RealPlayer, ect.). So I try WMP. Error. Real Player. Error. Some other odd program it tells me to use. Error. lol. Now that I'm a switcher, I'm like, typical windows. So, I go into "My Computer" (which I have to look for that; it isn't on the desktop like I remember it). I go into the CD drive and double click on the individual track. No go. So I go into programs and try to open up all the programs previously menioned to see if they would work. Finally I get RealPlayer to work. I can't just click on the CD like in iTunes. No... I have to go file>open and open the track I want. It wont even play the CD all the way through. If I want it to play the next song, I have to open it up. I'm so glad I switched. I'm not looking back.