Wierd Issues with cMP, GTX 980 Ti and Premiere

[Bytehoven]

After a Mac Pro Classic hardware overhaul to better support a 4K workflow, primarily in Premiere Pro, and after a couple of projects under my belt, I have been making some recurring observations…

- “something” is contributing to the onset of sluggishness of various aspects of Premiere AND sometimes the over all Finder response. Things like…

- Program Monitor goes BLACK while Premiere continues operate in other ways.
- Movement of items in the editing time line, like dragging any audio, video or graphic element, can take up to about a sec from the time I click on an item, until I can start to reposition the item i=on the timeline.
- Similar to the drag and drop delay, a delay in being able to grab and move an EFFECT item from the menu to something on the timeline or into the items effects editing window.
- Sometimes I will get random noise pop up on the Program Monitor and it’s usually followed no long after by Premiere crashing to the desktop.
- Every once in awhile, I will get a OS X crash, where all screens go black and the Mac Pro will initiate a restart.

- When there is the type of sluggishness in Premiere mentioned above, there is generally a similar sluggishness in the OS when trying to operate within other programs or even launch other programs. In some cases, other programs which have a KEY, like Compressor, might launch and ask for re-activation.

- I started a new 4K edit with a lot of PSD title elements and rasterized text. The project 1st started out with the PSD document being 10K x 6K pixels to better support the clients InDesign files. All of the above was brought on much more quickly. So I took the time to rework the InDesign -> PSD from the larger 10K/6K format to a 4K format, and while this delays the onset of the problems, it does not eliminate them.

I also found, switching the main desktop 4K monitor from a 4K resolution to 2560x1440, also delays the problems.

In some cases, when the problems get unbearable , simply restarting Premiere does the job. Sometimes I have to restart the Mac Pro.



SO, I am curious if anyone else has had similar observations? If yes, have you found a cause and/or a solution?

Is there a recommendation for the technical setup of a multi layers PSD file for use within a Premiere edit? A set up other than the typical RGB color configuration.


Here are my specs…

OSX 10.10.5 running on a Samsung EVO 850 500GB SSD - all other data on separate HDDs or SAS RAID0 volumes.
Adobe CC 2015 (latest installs)
GTX 980 Ti GPU
64GB System Ram
(3) Desktop Monitors
- Display Port -> ViewSony 2780VP 4K Monitor (2560x1440)
- Display Port -> Dell U2711 (2560x1440)
- Display Port -> Dell 2408WFP (1920x1200)
- HDMI -> Sony HD Projector (1080P)

Thanks in advance for any feedback or questions you might have on this post.

Cheers

RJ Miles
Mactunes
….

 

[Bytehoven]

... follow up ....

a new item to add to the list of weird things... when I some of the other problems mentioned, I'm also seeing...

- areas on one of my displays where the desktop has digital noise which wipes away as I move my mouse cursor over the area.

- trying to use the space bar to quick view does not work with QT files, reporting a file type error. I can still open the same QT files in QT, but it takes maybe 5 times as long to open the files as normal.

I have run TechTool tests on system ram and the GTX 980 Ti and I'm not seeing any errors.

Does anyone have any tips on what I might be looking for as the possible cause of these issues?

I'm assuming it's a memory leak within Premiere Pro but I can't find any other reports of similar issues.

The patches of blocky digital noise on various desktop screens is making me thing it's the 980 Ti.

Any help would be welcome.

Thanks

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

All I know is that Nvidia's web drivers drivers have been problematic on OS X. In Photoshop they can crash the app if try to enlarge an image with OpenCL activated and lately artefacts have started to appear when using any brush tool.

Take some comfort, lately the quality of Nvidia drivers has been falling on Windows too.

 

[Bytehoven]

All I know is that Nvidia's web drivers drivers have been problematic on OS X. In Photoshop they can crash the app if try to enlarge an image with OpenCL activated and lately artefacts have started to appear when using any brush tool.

Take some comfort, lately the quality of Nvidia drivers has been falling on Windows too.

Last night when I was having the problem again, I tried running Tecg Tool Pro to test both the video memory and system memory and they both passed.

 

[rawweb]

From my experience, some of the problems listed here aren't tied to the cMP setup. I've got a 6,1 D700x2 that experiences some similar issues at work. Also, my 5,1 with GTX 770 and 4,1 R9 280x have similar issues. Fact of the matter is, Premiere Pro is a buggy app, always has been. It gets frequent updates that tend to break things and projects. The adobe forums are chock full of similar complaints.

I posted an issue on adobe forums about a year or two ago, (maybe CC 2014) that was asking for a fix to the slow timeline issue you mentioned. Another dude with a pretty powerful 12 core comparable win-box backed up my claims. Seems to suggest some of your issues aren't limited to OS X. The PC guy ended up reverting to an earlier version of creative cloud where the problem didn't exist. Either way, it does indeed suck when you pay them monthly...

 

[Bytehoven]

From my experience, some of the problems listed here aren't tied to the cMP setup. I've got a 6,1 D700x2 that experiences some similar issues at work. Also, my 5,1 with GTX 770 and 4,1 R9 280x have similar issues. Fact of the matter is, Premiere Pro is a buggy app, always has been. It gets frequent updates that tend to break things and projects. The adobe forums are chock full of similar complaints.

I posted an issue on adobe forums about a year or two ago, (maybe CC 2014) that was asking for a fix to the slow timeline issue you mentioned. Another dude with a pretty powerful 12 core comparable win-box backed up my claims. Seems to suggest some of your issues aren't limited to OS X. The PC guy ended up reverting to an earlier version of creative cloud where the problem didn't exist. Either way, it does indeed suck when you pay them monthly...

Thanks for that info... I have wondered about how a Premiere Pro memory leak might present itself... for instance, if I open Photoshop 1st, it runs smoothly in this scenario. However, If I open Premiere and then Photoshop, I quite often get a crash to the desktop wwhen hopping back to Photoshop to tweak and save layers. I'm starting to assume
[doublepost=1460482541][/doublepost]OK... Here is a pic of the digital errors on one of my displays. I feel like I snapped a pic of a Unicorn.

 

[rawweb]

Thanks for that info... I have wondered about how a Premiere Pro memory leak might present itself... for instance, if I open Photoshop 1st, it runs smoothly in this scenario. However, If I open Premiere and then Photoshop, I quite often get a crash to the desktop wwhen hopping back to Photoshop to tweak and save layers. I'm starting to assume

Admittedly, I rarely if ever get entire program crashes, but do experience extreme lag at times on timeline and even worse lag when simply command tabbing between applications (I often run Premiere and After Effects simultaneously). When I switch back to pP I might see between 5-15 seconds of spinning death before the app becomes responsive. Although I love Premiere Pro, I think it's pretty obvious that it's not all puppies and sunshine.

Back when I reported the bug (and the others that chimed in) it seemed to be limited to projects of vast size (longer than a certain amount of time, can't remember) and or projects that were created in older versions and 'updated'.
[doublepost=1460482843][/doublepost]

[doublepost=1460482541][/doublepost]OK... Here is a pic of the digital errors on one of my displays. I feel like I snapped a pic of a Unicorn.

OK, that looks like video card issues. Either bad board or buggy driver. EEEK!
Verify and test with stock video card?

 

[Bytehoven]

Admittedly, I rarely if ever get entire program crashes, but do experience extreme lag at times on timeline and even worse lag when simply command tabbing between applications (I often run Premiere and After Effects simultaneously). When I switch back to pP I might see between 5-15 seconds of spinning death before the app becomes responsive. Although I love Premiere Pro, I think it's pretty obvious that it's not all puppies and sunshine.

Back when I reported the bug (and the others that chimed in) it seemed to be limited to projects of vast size (longer than a certain amount of time, can't remember) and or projects that were created in older versions and 'updated'.
[doublepost=1460482843][/doublepost]

OK, that looks like video card issues. Either bad board or buggy driver. EEEK!
Verify and test with stock video card?

Here is another pic far worse.

 

[Shamgar]

Sounds a lot like a video card problem. What model is the 980 Ti? Has it been flashed? How are you powering it?

 

[Bytehoven]

Sounds a lot like a video card problem. What model is the 980 Ti? Has it been flashed? How are you powering it?

Is's a Zotac standard , non-overclolcked version I bought from B&H. It's has not been flashed. It's powered by a 6->6 and 6->8 off the MB mini GPU power slots.

I have not had any issues accept with Premiere Pro, and not with Premiere Pro until my latest 4K project with lots of layers of Photoshop titles. I'd also say the problem seems to happen more quickly and with greater impact when I EXPORT a timeline to AMC and then let AMC run while Premiere Pro is still open. Some how that back and forth, switching data in/out of the GPU is magnifying whatever data mapping issues is going wrong.

I have made contact with Zotac support and they looked at my pics and said they thought it was a driver issue. Zotac had me run the Mac version of Heaven Benchmark, however they too asked about how the GPU was powered.

Last thing, I just recently allowed my 10.10.5 to do the fall security update and nVidia driver update. I think the problem got worse with the update.

A couple of things I plan to try...

- I'll switch powering the 980 Ti to: MB (6pin+6pin)-> GPU 8pin & MB ( SATA + SATA)-> GPU 6pin
- I still have a back up clone of the PRE fall OSX security patch, so I was going to see if the pre-patch OSX does exhibit less issues and decide from there.

- I did up my fan speeds in SMC to 150 rpm all around. However, the problem happens even on a COLD start up, so it does not appear to be a heat/temperature fault.

- I'd also note, playing several MMOs on the PC side with 3 screens up and the main screen running at 4K resolution, I have not had a single issue, pointing again to Adobe-OSX as the root cause.

- Lastly, several members of the After Effects email list server have noted similar issues between Premiere and OSX. In many cases where they could switch to the OSX driver, there display digital noise problems went away, but they too still had the GUI lag I mentioned, made worse when switching between multiple programs during their workflow. Unfortunately, running the OSX driver is not an option for these GPUs.

I will make the power supply adjustment as well as try the rollback and follow up with a report.

However, It seems I may be at the mercy of some long known technical bugs/conflicts between Adobe and OSX.

Thanks again for all of the feedback.

Byte

PS... usually someone from Adobe on the AE mail list would have spoken up, but since Todd (one of the more active Adobe associates) is no longer in that role, I have not see anyone from Adobe posting lately. So I will see about contact Adobe as well after I tweak the power supply to rule out the GPU entirely.

 

[rawweb]

Is's a Zotac standard , non-overclolcked version I bought from B&H. It's has not been flashed. It's powered by a 6->6 and 6->8 off the MB mini GPU power slots.

I have not had any issues accept with Premiere Pro, and not with Premiere Pro until my latest 4K project with lots of layers of Photoshop titles. I'd also say the problem seems to happen more quickly and with greater impact when I EXPORT a timeline to AMC and then let AMC run while Premiere Pro is still open. Some how that back and forth, switching data in/out of the GPU is magnifying whatever data mapping issues is going wrong.

I have made contact with Zotac support and they looked at my pics and said they thought it was a driver issue. Zotac had me run the Mac version of Heaven Benchmark, however they too asked about how the GPU was powered.

Last thing, I just recently allowed my 10.10.5 to do the fall security update and nVidia driver update. I think the problem got worse with the update.

A couple of things I plan to try...

- I'll switch powering the 980 Ti to: MB (6pin+6pin)-> GPU 8pin & MB ( SATA + SATA)-> GPU 6pin
- I still have a back up clone of the PRE fall OSX security patch, so I was going to see if the pre-patch OSX does exhibit less issues and decide from there.

- I did up my fan speeds in SMC to 150 rpm all around. However, the problem happens even on a COLD start up, so it does not appear to be a heat/temperature fault.

- I'd also note, playing several MMOs on the PC side with 3 screens up and the main screen running at 4K resolution, I have not had a single issue, pointing again to Adobe-OSX as the root cause.

- Lastly, several members of the After Effects email list server have noted similar issues between Premiere and OSX. In many cases where they could switch to the OSX driver, there display digital noise problems went away, but they too still had the GUI lag I mentioned, made worse when switching between multiple programs during their workflow. Unfortunately, running the OSX driver is not an option for these GPUs.

I will make the power supply adjustment as well as try the rollback and follow up with a report.

However, It seems I may be at the mercy of some long known technical bugs/conflicts between Adobe and OSX.

Thanks again for all of the feedback.

Byte

PS... usually someone from Adobe on the AE mail list would have spoken up, but since Todd (one of the more active Adobe associates) is no longer in that role, I have not see anyone from Adobe posting lately. So I will see about contact Adobe as well after I tweak the power supply to rule out the GPU entirely.

Careful with contacting support. You'll likely be dismissed because you're using the card in a system (OS) they don't allege to support in anyway what-so-ever. They may even go as far as to say using it in this matter destroys the warranty (doubtful of course, but maybe they could come up with a reason because the mac pro power wattage, etc)

I would just ask for an exchange, or return it to B&H. My opinion, I really thing it's a defective card based on the pics you sent. Do you have bootcamp, or a windozzze box to test in?

 

[Bytehoven]

Careful with contacting support. You'll likely be dismissed because you're using the card in a system (OS) they don't allege to support in anyway what-so-ever. They may even go as far as to say using it in this matter destroys the warranty (doubtful of course, but maybe they could come up with a reason because the mac pro power wattage, etc)

I would just ask for an exchange, or return it to B&H. My opinion, I really thing it's a defective card based on the pics you sent. Do you have bootcamp, or a windozzze box to test in?

I understand. I'm up and running with the tweaked power supply. I'm gonna open another Premiere project which never gave me problems over the last 4 months too see what happens. If I get the same problem, I will go for some kind of exchange or replacement.

Thanks

 

[orph]

are you ruining it as a cuda card?
can you switch it to opencl/gl mode (not used cc) & how much video ram is reported by osx.
CUDA-Z is worth a look http://cuda-z.sourceforge.net/

 

[Bytehoven]

6143 MB is what system report says about the GPU. I am running it as a CUDA. I'll try the switch you mentioned, although running in that mode would defeat the purpose of having a CUDA processing boost within Premiere.

 

[orph]

im trying to think of simple things that will help trouble shoot the problem.
it will show if the problem is something to do with cuda or the card, might just be you need to reinstall the cuda driver or nvidia graphics driver.

or cuda in cc might be borked

or a bad card

 

[Bytehoven]

im trying to think of simple things that will help trouble shoot the problem.
it will show if the problem is something to do with cuda or the card, might just be you need to reinstall the cuda driver or nvidia graphics driver.

or cuda in cc might be borked

or a bad card

I wish it was as easy as the card being bad. However, I have zero issues running any MMO games while under Windows 10 AND my other Premiere 4K edits don't have any problems. Just this project with roughly 100 Photoshop layers spread across a 1-2minute timeline.

And whatever is going on with this one Premiere project, sending export queues out to AME makes things worse, such that often AME never fully quits, can't be force quit and requires a system restart.

I will try uninstalling and reinstalling both the CUDA and nVidia drivers.

 

[orph]

when i do opencl/cuda i see my card used much harder than when i play games, might just be the stress is showing some kind of problem be it power draw or fault.

if it's just the one project thats the problem if you still have your old card to get the project out the door might be worth swapping till the project is done then troubleshooting after.

 

[RhymeAnimal]

I'm having the exact same problem as Bytehoven-- with almost same specs. 10.10.5, Adobe cc 2017, GTX 980ti.

Did you ever figure it out? Wondering if it's a Yosemite issue.

 

[Bytehoven]

I'm having the exact same problem as Bytehoven-- with almost same specs. 10.10.5, Adobe cc 2017, GTX 980ti.

Did you ever figure it out? Wondering if it's a Yosemite issue.

Hi Rhyme... While it's been almost a year since I had posted in this thread, my issues have almost gone completely away. Only wierd things that still sometimes happens which may be related, is images in something like Ebay are scrambled. Or when I log into the MacPro from a MINI using screen share, sometimes moving the mouse around cause the screen to erase away.

Otherwise, performance in Premiere and other apps has been very good, knock on wood.

I'm trying to recall what hardware/software changes I may have made to help the issue go away. Still running 10.10.5. I did do a complete clear and reinstall of all nVidia goodies. I'm only running (3) screens, all at 2560x1440, including my 4k Viewsonic. I have been continuously updating CC as updates become available. I still have the original 980 Ti card I bought from B&H.

It may have been caused when I tried adding the (4) screen to host a video projector at 1080P, but I have not used that setup in awhile.

If there are any additional things I can check for you, please let me know and I will report back.

Regards

RJ
....

 

[RhymeAnimal]

Hi Rhyme... While it's been almost a year since I had posted in this thread, my issues have almost gone completely away. Only wierd things that still sometimes happens which may be related, is images in something like Ebay are scrambled. Or when I log into the MacPro from a MINI using screen share, sometimes moving the mouse around cause the screen to erase away.

....

Thanks Bytehoven. Wondering how much RAM you have installed?

I'm also beginning to suspect that FxFactory plugins are making my machine crash in Premiere. I use them & Red Giant. But it seems that if I stick exclusively to Red Giant I'm in better shape. My specs:

Mac Pro 5,1
Yosemite 10.10.5
2x 3.46 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
32gb ram
GTX 980 Ti 6gb

-RhymeAnimal
[doublepost=1489691007][/doublepost]

Hi Rhyme... While it's been almost a year since I had posted in this thread, my issues have almost gone completely away. Only wierd things that still sometimes happens which may be related, is images in something like Ebay are scrambled. Or when I log into the MacPro from a MINI using screen share, sometimes moving the mouse around cause the screen to erase away.
....

sorry - I just noticed your specs listed underneath your post. Thinking I might move up to 64gb. I'm adding a lot of effects direct;y onto clips in Premiere these days.