Windows is the "biggest beta test in History" - Gartner

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Lincoln, Sep 22, 2004.

  1. Lincoln macrumors regular

    Lincoln

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    #1
    I saw this in my dily "The Regsiter" email today:

    The story can be found here:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/21/gartner_security_summit/

    Unfortunately I have to use and support Windows as part of my job, but at home this is becoming less of a problem as I switch to the mac platform. Most of my friends are also considering the switch as they get sick and tired of the constant security problem with Windows.

    Personally I am lucky as I do the sensible thing, up-to-date Anti-Virus software, router with NAT and firewall, install most current Windows Updates, don't open emails from people I don't know, etc, etc. But all of this is a chore - a few years ago the above wasn't necessary.
     
  2. munkle macrumors 68030

    munkle

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    #2
    Pity he didn't mention the alternatives availiable, at least not in the article.
     
  3. Zaty macrumors 65816

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    #3
    Good point! I guess this is THE reason why so many people at least think about switching to either the Mac or Linux. You can keep your PC more or less secure but it requires so much work and time. All that time (and money) could be spent for productive work rather than maintenance tasks.
     
  4. Chappers macrumors 68020

    Chappers

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    #4
    Windows keeps IT jobs alive and well. Can you imagine what would happen if windows and its software was more secure? Lots of people out of work - its about the economy stupid. (Obviously I'm not directing that at any individual)
     
  5. thatwendigo macrumors 6502a

    thatwendigo

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    #5
    The money and time wasted on Windows could be far better applied to creating real solutions that would be up, thus guaranteeing more and better business for the companies that were relying on a faulty system. If you have more business, you need more IT, and thus the professionals are still employed.

    It's not only dishonest, but predatory and unethical to recommend something just because it'll keep you in a job. Would you like it if your doctor treated when he could cure, a policeman let a criminal go because he could bust him again later? It's the same thing.
     
  6. gluemeat macrumors newbie

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    #6
    You're right - it is dishonest and predatory, but I for one believe it does indeed happen.

    I'd go as far as to say that the majority of people lack the foresight to create such endeavours, and/or lack the expertise to get their points across to those who have the bucks to finance such ambitious new projects. It's as simple as saying: it ain't broke, don't fix it. The current problems and security issues currently do bring in loads of cash and generate lots of jobs. Creating solutions to these situations would demand re-thinking the whole thing, and we're so well entrenched in these systems, which are maintained in place by billionaires on every end of the IT racket, that retooling seems too gargantuan a task to undertake.

    Doctors DO treat instead of curing sometimes. Why? Because of deals they have set up with pharmaceutical companies, or because surgery waiting lists are so long that smaller "defects" that could be cured by an operation are dealt with in different ways. Policemen DO release criminals on smaller charges knowing they will eventually bust them on something bigger down the line, that's reality.

    Red tape and human nature, baby.
     
  7. Chappers macrumors 68020

    Chappers

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    #7
    I was being sarcastic but overly subtle in my first comment.

    My work is mostly Mac (thank God) but IT is always pushing the usual tripe about windoze and the Mac. They are kept busy patching windoze and they look like gods repairing things. I even over heard IT tell someone that macosx isn't truely based on UNIX and thus UNIXheads can't use it.
    Also your idea about creating real solutions would damage the status quo and business doesn't like that.
     
  8. thatwendigo macrumors 6502a

    thatwendigo

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    #8
    You misunderstand me, then. I wasn't implying that it doesn't happen, but instead commenting on the sad state of affairs in the current IT market.

    I'll apply the same counter argument to this that I did to people who told me they would never, ever vote third party if they didn't like either of the main candidates. The only reason why things never change is that everyone is so defeatist and down on anyone who bucks the herd that there's no chance they can make a difference. Stand up for your beliefs, push for a change if it's what you really, really believe in, and I guarantee that I'll either be at your elbow or across the line shoving back.

    The only enemy of progress is apathy. Anything else can be overcome.

    Let me spin out a little metaphor for you, while admitting ahead of time it won't be perfect.

    Way back when, some people were really unhappy with the way that a manager was telling them to run the budget according to his policies. He didn't really give them any choice in anything, took most of the profit for himself, and even told them what they could and couldn't do while on the company grounds. The employees got fed up, left, and started their own corporation to try to stop this kind of thing from happening. When their previous employer made a bid for a hostile takeover, they repelled the attempt.

    Name that historical event, and tell me why it's relevant to what I said above.

    Maybe I've been spoiled by growing up the child of - and around other - ethical doctors. I know that the corruption exists and many physicians have selfish reason for their methods, but I just don't see it as much as people claim. I know all kinds of insider information about the way the medical system operates (where I live, at least) and know a good bit about national trends because my mother's an activist/lobbysit for her professional association.

    The issue with "lesser treatment" has more to do with patient consent, the ignorance and "magic bullet" attitude of most patients, and pressure of the drug companies and legislation on physicians. When you can lose your practice over someone else botching a surgery you recommend, or a patient doesn't want to wait for a full diagnoses and pushes you repeatedly for something more drastic that later turns out to be unnecessary, all it takes is a greedy insurance company to break the average doctor.

    It's not that simple.

    "If I accept you as you are, I will make you worse; however if I treat you as though you are what you are capable of becoming, I help you become that."
    -Goethe

    Reality is not static, things can change, and washing your hands of the issue with a glib statement that "it's how it is" doesn't help anyone but the people already in power. You'd think that mac users, of all people in the technology commmunity, might have grasped that you can't just sit back and let everyone else do things however they want.

    You know, because Microsoft justs steals things. That's reality.
     
  9. gluemeat macrumors newbie

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    #9
    I appreciate everything you stated, Wendigo. In fact, I agree with everything you said, being a soft-hearted idealistic leftie myself. In a sense, I was playing devil's advocate.

    I am conscious of the fact that progressive thinking does not profit those who end up power broking the messed up systems that are established at the current time. Outside of revolutionary action, there is no way to make things different in the short term. Besides, problems such as apathy are rooted into daily contact people have with the world, through television, advertising, magazines, music and every level of cultural living which some people try to pass off as "culture." There's an entrenched division of the world if I ever heard one.

    I believe in the inherent goodness of people, not the opposite. I believe people are misinformed and undereducated, and deserve to be enlightened. I'm an activist myself, I try hard make the right choices and make better. Key words: try hard. I understand how 80% of the people of my city shop at Wal Mart's at least twice a month: because it's so bloody easy. I understand it. I don't like it, but I understand it. I see the consequences of actions such as that. Some people don't. Some people won't. Some people do, but don't care as long as they get their instant gratification. We're not compelled to think independently, to search for our own answers, to make up our own minds, or even to think of others, if you can believe that.

    I can sit here and quote Goethe myself up and down and talk about how great things can be if we all got along, and how letting yourself succumb to your disillusionment is against your human nature, but I will not keep myself from being completely blinded to what our corporate culture has done. One cannot reject the unreasonable daily acts of lazyness and boredom our society has motivated people to do. You're right, tough: reality isn't static; I start with my own reality and try to promote positive change and intelligent choices around me. But reality as it is, exists. We don't have to like it. But we have to see it. Then we can change it.

    PS: Can it be, that I'm actually having an interesting discussion with someone on a MESSAGE BOARD on the INTERNET that doesn't start with someone asking A/S/L???!? :eek:
     
  10. thatwendigo macrumors 6502a

    thatwendigo

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    #10
    Correction:

    I am a semi-softhearted left-leaning Libertarian, but definitely an idealist. The problem is finding a workable middle ground between pragmatism and the ideals, which is why I'm not a full, party-line Libertarian. :p

    Also, as a philosophy and psychology student, I'm well aware of the way that apathy is drilled into people by the grind of daily life. There's an awfully complext layer of factors that go into it, ranging from the ingrained training of youth (the Southern culture of 'mah daddeh sayed" comes to mind) to the fact that it takes more and more work just to achieve a reasonable standard of living (families with two wage-earners have as much buying power as one did in the seventies). When you've got to bust your butt constantly to provide a comforable life for your kids or yourself, it's a lot harder to care as much about the things that society has done an amazing job marginalizing to us "kids."

    Despite what conservatives would have you believe, the "liberal media" has done an incredible job of making certain topics sound like class warfare, jealousy on the part of poor, young idealists, or otherwise minimizing the debate on important issues. You can't dislike the WTO without being seen as a liberal, nor can you question the corporate handouts and crony capitalism of both parties (even though the Republicans are vastly more involved in it, the Democrats are guilty, too).

    People are not inherently good. People are not inherently anything, really, other than a collection of genetic predispositions and potentialities that we've decided to label as "human." This has been shown more than once by feral children recovered in the wild. They have no sense of morals, no development of innate language, or anything else that most people would consider to be a characteristic that applies the label. Aside from sharing out genetics, all that keeps us from becoming just another animal is the artificial construct of social grouping and inherited knowledge. That's it.

    I shudder to think of what we're passing down when we condone Wal-Mart and Halliburton, though. Intellectual laziness ought to replace all the "sins" as the worst crime, because it's the one that permits all the others.
     
  11. Mechcozmo macrumors 603

    Mechcozmo

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    #11

    In short, no.

    In long, they are dumping spyware/adware/pornware (yknow what that is...dont' make me describe it) onto your computer. And your Mac is saying ".exe is an unrecognized filetype, cannot execute."

    :D
     
  12. gluemeat macrumors newbie

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    #12

    All I can add to that is "aye aye."

    Seems like we're both very close to promoting the same ideas; details err, is all.

    This was very refreshing. And reassuring.
     
  13. asphalt-proof macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    I sometimes wonder if its more inertia. I have talked to our IT guy several times, but he just doesn't want to change things. He's used to Windows and doesn't want to change it even though he readily admits that its a headache to administer. If it was quick, painless, seamless, he didn't have to learn anything new, and it was done for him he MIGHT make the switch.
     
  14. thatwendigo macrumors 6502a

    thatwendigo

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    #14
    "Well, I don't know. If I had my job done for me, then I'd be okay with it."

    What a tool. Your company should fire him and hire someone with the corporation's best interests in mind.
     
  15. rueyeet macrumors 65816

    rueyeet

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    #15
    The Register's Thomas Greene says essentially that in this article, which concludes with:
    If this isn't the first and best reason people think of when contemplating switching, it damn well should be.

    I don't actually buy that IT departments run Microsoft in a deliberate attempt at job security, because I used to work for one. It's not that they know the benefits of running a non-MS system, and purposely eschew them in favor of keeping their budgets/staff. It's that too few of them know anything about anything EXCEPT Microsoft. Apple and Linux and whatever just aren't even on the radar of most of these people. MSCEs are a dime a dozen, and all the "computer career centers" cranking them out are just inundating the corporate IT landscape with that many more Microsoft drones. All anyone's ever seen or dealt with is Windows, and all anyone reads are the Wintel-centric tech publications.

    When your only concept of "tool" is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And if it doesn't, either bang on it until it does, or change the data to fit your worldview.
     
  16. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #16
    I remember when a local teacher won a grant for some free Macs in a cash starved school. The IT guys didn't know much about Apples, despite the fact that the school already had some older Macs. So the administrator, for various other stupid reasons as well, told him he couldn't have the free Macs. The school board's solution was to buy used PCs. That deserves more :rolleyes: than exist. There was an uproar in the community, even among the non-techie parents, but the decision was made.

    I try to fight the ignorance as well, but we all know it can feel like an uphill battle against the ignorance. I don't think people are necessarily evil. Just close minded, and stubborn at times. And ignorant. It's unfortunate, but true.

    Edit: BTW, were you talking about the American revolution? Because that's what I was thinking.
     
  17. asphalt-proof macrumors 6502a

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    #17

    Unfortunately I work for the public schools as a psychologist. Firing ANYONE who has a job with the state takes far more effort than some people thinks its worth.
    Obviously I am exaggerating his ineptitude. Partially because I am still peeved he required Psych services to buy Gateways instead of the iBooks I wanted. I argued with him about compatibility issues, networking, security, etc. To no avail.

    I also talked to an architect friend of mine the other day. He was buying a new comp from Dell. Said it was maxed out component-wise. I tried to remember a recent article about how fast an unprotected comp was attacked when hooked up to the internet. Since I couldn't pull up the article I think that he was dubious about my assertion that putting putting a Windows computer on the internet with IE is asking for trouble and quickly too. At least he said that he would put up a firewall this time. The point of this is that mostly, he is just comfortable with Windows. He doesn't care about added security (yet) nor ease of use. This is a very learned and rational man yet continues to blithely go along with a-less-than-satisfactory- experience because its what he is used to.

    "People are not inherently good. People are not inherently anything, really, other than a collection of genetic predispositions and potentialities that we've decided to label as "human." This has been shown more than once by feral children recovered in the wild. They have no sense of morals, no development of innate language, or anything else that most people would consider to be a characteristic that applies the label. Aside from sharing out genetics, all that keeps us from becoming just another animal is the artificial construct of social grouping and inherited knowledge. That's it."

    This is kind of an interesting statement and idea. I'm not sure if you are including "inherited Knowledge" as being a necessary to be 'human' or if is a by-product. I would say that its necessary as it seems to be one thing that separates us from the other animals.
    I would agree that there is no gene labeled "morality" but I would argue that there is a genetic disposition that encourages cooperations, altruism, etc... characteristics normally associated with humanity. I think this disposition is what enables a small group to survive under very harsh circumstances, something akin to prehistoric earth. So maybe social grouping is more than an artificial construct and more something necessary for long-term survival. Your example of feral children is interesting because once they were introduced back into society I believe they adapted quite quickly. (Not sure about the language though... its been awhile since my college days) :p
     
  18. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

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  19. BornAgainMac macrumors 603

    BornAgainMac

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    #19

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