Windows Longhorn? 3-D?

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by MacManiac1224, Nov 10, 2002.

  1. MacManiac1224 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2001
    Location:
    NY
    #1
    Read this part of this article:
    ----
    Q: What is "Longhorn"?
    A: Longhorn is the next major Windows release, which will follow Windows XP and XP Service Pack 1 (SP1). Originally expected to be a fairly minor upgrade, Longhorn will now include a number of new features including a revised task-based (or "inductive") user interface, an extensible, dock-like, Start panel, and a SQL Server 2003-based file system.
    ----
    Here is the link: http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/longhorn.asp

    Also, this is what is in longhorn:
    ---
    Q: So what will be new and different in Longhorn?
    A: Though speculation on Longhorn continues, what we know about this Windows release is steeped in generalities and rumors. Given that, here's what we know about Longhorn:

    * Longhorn will feature a task-based (or "iterative") interface that goes far beyond the task-based interface found today in Windows XP. Microsoft has been working to move beyond the dated desktop metaphor still used by Mac OS X and Linux for many years; I explain some of Microsoft's early work on task-based interfaces in my old Activity Centers preview.
    * The Longhorn Start Menu will likely take on the form of the Task Panes from Office XP and occupy a good percentage of the right- or left-most portion of the Longhorn desktop.
    * Longhorn will take full advantage of 3D video hardware to render special effects that will make the screen more photorealistic and deep. This doesn't mean that the basic windows and mouse interface is being replaced, just that it will look a lot better.
    * Longhorn will optionally include the Palladium technology Microsoft is developing with Intel and AMD (see the next question for details).
    * Longhorn will include a database-like file system based on technology from SQL Server 2003 (code-named Yukon). This file system will abstract physical file locations from the user and allow for the sorts of complex data searching that are impossible today. For example, today, your email messages, contacts, Word documents, and music files are all completely separate. That won't be the case in Longhorn.
    ---

    This does not look good for OS X, I hope Apple has something up thier sleves.

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. gorman macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO, USA
    #2
    Let's go through this list point by point:

    * Longhorn will feature a task-based (or "iterative") interface that goes far beyond the task-based interface found today in Windows XP. Microsoft has been working to move beyond the dated desktop metaphor still used by Mac OS X and Linux for many years; I explain some of Microsoft's early work on task-based interfaces in my old Activity Centers preview.

    - I've seen screenshots and read about this, it's really nothing _that_ innovative.

    * The Longhorn Start Menu will likely take on the form of the Task Panes from Office XP and occupy a good percentage of the right- or left-most portion of the Longhorn desktop.

    - Is this a good thing? Seems like the dock does a much better job of what they're doing to do here (again, I've seen screenshots).

    * Longhorn will take full advantage of 3D video hardware to render special effects that will make the screen more photorealistic and deep. This doesn't mean that the basic windows and mouse interface is being replaced, just that it will look a lot better.

    - OS X 10.2 already has this (Quartz Extreme - Apple even notes that other operating systems, obviously Longhorn, won't have this until 2004)

    * Longhorn will optionally include the Palladium technology Microsoft is developing with Intel and AMD (see the next question for details).

    - Again, is this a good thing?

    * Longhorn will include a database-like file system based on technology from SQL Server 2003 (code-named Yukon). This file system will abstract physical file locations from the user and allow for the sorts of complex data searching that are impossible today. For example, today, your email messages, contacts, Word documents, and music files are all completely separate. That won't be the case in Longhorn

    - This is one of the cool features of Longhorn, but I'm sure Apple has something to compete in the works. I know they're doing a lot of work on the filesystem (journaling is included in the next update, for example).

    All in all, I really don't think Apple has anything to worry about. By the time Longhorn is out, OS X will be greatly improved over what we have now, and will continue to maintain it's technological and design lead over Windows.
     
  3. Nipsy macrumors 65816

    Nipsy

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2002
    #3
    Well, I think they both steal from (dock-like), and insult (dated desktop metaphor still used by Mac OS X ) OS X in the same interview.

    As we all know, M$ has never had the same UI skills that Apple has, and likely will continue in this fashion. Remember the bumper sticker "Windows 95 = Macintosh 84"?

    It will continue to be very invasive, especially if M$ ever gets .NET of the ground. Palladium will provide security for the MPAA & RIAA, but the user will still be bombarded by virii, worms, and vulnerabilities. Am I the only one who notices that as Windows becomes more complicated, it becomes less secure?

    Meanwhile, OS X will continue to become faster, and cleaner, as optimaizations and evolution take effect.
     
  4. e-coli macrumors 68000

    e-coli

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2002
    #4
    i think they'll botch the job. and the "3D" thing is basically a windows variant of the OS X QE / OpenGL.

    they won't get it right. they never do until someone comes along and does it better and more intuitive. don't get all worried. The palladium thing is going to drive people to Linux / OS X in droves.

    besides, have you seen the 3D OS X file navigations out there? OS X has so many possibilities, it makes me giddy. the new file searching in windows is likely to be similar to apples "find by content", only it will simply draw out info from various docs and assemble it into a unified package. Apple isn't far away from that. in fact, i'm certain they could do it now.

    don't worry...
    ;)
     
  5. gorman macrumors member

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    Jul 19, 2002
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO, USA
    #5
    e-coli: Could you point me in the direction of some of those 3D file navigation programs? I haven't come across those yet (I'm new to the Mac world :)). Thanks!
     
  6. e-coli macrumors 68000

    e-coli

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2002
    #6
    http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/macwarriors/eoh2k2/3dosx/
     
  7. gorman macrumors member

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    St. Louis, MO, USA
  8. syco macrumors member

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    Jul 31, 2002
    #8
    Gorman, can you link us to some of these screenshots?
     
  9. gorman macrumors member

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    Jul 19, 2002
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    St. Louis, MO, USA
    #9
    Unfortunately it seems their page just went down, so I'm not able to even check out the screenshots myself at the moment. I don't actually _have_ a Mac yet (waiting for my Powerbook Superdrive to ship), I was just curious as to what that program looked like :)
     
  10. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Location:
    VA
    #11
    Somewhat true since MS seems to always seems to be playing catchup with Apple in this regard and takes what it likes for its own upgrades. Although, to expect MS to just wait for Apple to come out with something so that they can 'borrow' it would be foolish.

    I just hope Apple can keep ahead of the curve here.

    D
     
  11. gorman macrumors member

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    Jul 19, 2002
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO, USA
    #12
    Oh, oops, I thought you meant screenshots of the 3D file browser. The link provided above has 'em though :)
     
  12. medea macrumors 68030

    medea

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2002
    Location:
    Madison, Wi
    #13
    nah, apple has always been ahead in the os wars and (hopefully) always will, and I thinks it's obvious they will in the near future, Longhorn looks like a piece of polished up candy crap, the current version of os x is ahead of it and by the time it's actually released windows will be even further behind. Just my thought though.....
     
  13. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #14
    Re: Windows Longhorn? 3-D?

    Anybody else find it funny that 2 companies who esentially stole most of their technology from other companies are implementing these stratedgies stop "piracy".

    Can you say IRONY.
     
  14. macmax macrumors regular

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    Sep 5, 2002
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    caribbean
    #15
    the only difference between the so called innovations of microsuck and apple is that microsuck has great marketing guys which apple lacks.

    If msft has anything that they will launch, it can be a pos and they will still sell it.
     
  15. FattyMembrane macrumors 6502a

    FattyMembrane

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    Apr 14, 2002
    Location:
    bat country
    #16
    few consumers seem to notice that while apple keeps it's developments secret and does not reveal details until a product is actually launched, microsoft has to release details years in advance to try to keep customers. a graphics card accelerated interface has already been done with quartz extreme and "task based interface" means more of the dancing paperclip. i'll admit that their new filesystem sounds neat, but i'd wait to see if they manage to execute it well (launchbar removes my need to be concerned with physical file locations) and what apple has to compete with it. as far as the new start menu on the left side of the screen, i've seen screenshots of this and it looks cool, but it's not that impressive. you can have your msn messenger docked into the side of the screen, or outlook telling you how many mails you have, etc, but osx's dynamic dock menus and menu bar items provide much of this funcion with less screen real estate. if the new start/dock menubar is really that cool to you, check out www.konfabulator.com for info on arlo rose's upcoming osx project.

    if apple really wants to give ms a kick in the pants, they need to bring opendoc to osx (i know, i sound like a broken record). opendoc cleans the floor with just about any other approach to the application/document structure (and it's cross platform!)
     
  16. SilvorX macrumors 68000

    SilvorX

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    'Toba, Canada
    #17
    icky...
     

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  17. syco macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    #18
    Wow..

    That has to be the ugliest thing I've ever seen, even surpassing the ugliness of the original Windows XP. Poop brown, sand, and sky?! What is this, a giant nature milkshake?

    M$ needs to adopt a color scheme that doesn't look like a blind retard throwing paint at a wall.
     
  18. DreaminDirector macrumors 6502a

    DreaminDirector

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Location:
    Ladera Ranch, CA
    #19
    what?!?!

    What are you talking about? Apple has amazing marketing. I have yet to see Microsloth come out with anything close to Apple's "Think Different" campaign or the current "Switchers" campaign. Even the classic "1984" tv spot was better than anything, ANYTHING that M$ has done. In my opinion, Microsloth has put out quantity instead of quality. Apple is the exact opposite.
     
  19. patrick0brien macrumors 68040

    patrick0brien

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Location:
    The West Loop
    #20
    Occam's Razor

    -All things being equal, e.g. looking at OS to OS here, OS X has nothing to worry about.

    Seeing Longhorn in action merely reinforces the addage "Microsoft just dosen't get it". They only sell by force-feeding.

    Otherwise, who would use a computer built on a band-aided, chicken-wired, bailing wired, sheet metaled, stapled, chewing-gummed OS that harkens from 1985 with a few planks of wood for good measure to nail the whole shebang together?

    Yes, DOS is still there...
     
  20. ThomasJefferson macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    Virginia
    #21
    OK wheres my photoshop, this is too tempting, what is grazing in the field behind that puke-green install window. How about a large pile of cow-paddie ... or at least a cows behind. The possibilities for abuse are endless.
     
  21. beatle888 macrumors 68000

    beatle888

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    #22
    i think task based computing is a concept
    that should be FULLY explored. i think it
    would work well...i hate the desktop metaphor.
    im always using DragThing to come up with ways
    to change the way i interact with my mac....
    i have a "contacts" doc that when i move the
    mouse to the left side of the screen a transparent
    doc FILLS THE SCREEN the WHOLE screen and
    it has HUGE 128x128 icons that have one click
    email links that open up a persons email address
    in a new email...all i have to do is type the email
    and send....also my address book and some
    other communications apps are in this doc.


    i think it comes down to organization....and i
    feel comfortable in my belief that apple knows
    how to do that...we dont have anything to
    worry about in my opinion...i am absolutely
    impressed with apple and osx.
     
  22. FattyMembrane macrumors 6502a

    FattyMembrane

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    Apr 14, 2002
    Location:
    bat country
    #23
    notes on the screenshot

    that screen looks newer than the ones i've seen, yet it's still pretty ugly. will ms ever figure out how do do font anti-aliasing correctly? i know that some people will say that the interface is secondary and that features are paramount, which is true, but the windows interface has always been cumbersome and impeded workflow. if this new screenshot is any evidence of what is to come, it looks like clutter and bloat will reign for a good while longer. one of the things i love about osx, is that my computer can sit unatended, and all that obscures the desktop is a 1/4 inch menubar, that's it (no icons on the desktop, the dock hidden). then, with one click, i can launch any application i want, hide them, move them, whatever.
     
  23. cubist macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2002
    Location:
    Muncie, Indiana
    #24
    When Microsoft says "task-based interface"...

    ... they mean the Start button walking menus, which IMHO are a major failure. I don't know anybody who likes them at all. In Windows, I put icons all over the desktop (oddly, just like the Longhorn screenshots); other users like to put the tiny icons in the lower left of the "taskbar", where they function somewhat like the Mac OS X dock.

    I kind of like the Mac OS X dock. Under OS 9 I had shortcuts on the desktop, but right now I don't in Mac OS X.

    Oh, they could also be referring to what they call "Wizards", which should really be called "Idiots" or, more politely, "Scripts". Windows still has nothing like AppleScript, altho WSH (Javascript) is a feeble attempt in that direction. That's where they ought to go if they want to make their system more usable. Windows GUI apps are almost completely un-automatable.
     
  24. barkmonster macrumors 68020

    barkmonster

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2001
    Location:
    Lancashire
    #25
    Why didn't apple patent the 3D based GUI engine ?

    I mean, there's an apple patent on using an 8 bit mask on icons etc... (I read it on here somewhere with a link to it a while ago) Apple can't patent the whole GUI idea but the Dock and QE (or any derivitive) should have been the first things they should have patented to prevent M$ from passing off more (poorly imitated) apple innovations as their own.
     

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