Winning the hearts and minds of Iraq

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Sayhey, Apr 28, 2004.

  1. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #1
    With fools like these who needs al Qaeda to organize against the US; we do it ourselves.
     
  2. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #2
    how stupid does the american military have to be to use, and abuse within, the exact same prison that was such a horrorshow under saddam's rule?

    symbolism and irony is completely lost here
     
  3. diamond geezer macrumors regular

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    #3
    That BS website "insight" has a teaser on it.

    Note that "Iraqi prisoners", no doubt defending their homeland against an aggressive invader, are renamed "muslim terrorists" in their article.
     
  4. radhak macrumors regular

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    #4
    Iraqi Prison Photos mar US Image

    I missed the actual broadcast. Did anybody see it? The description seems seriously depraved enough; and till recently i was thinking the military was in a muddle created by others. seems like they are out to dig their own hole deeper.


    well said.
     
  5. toontra macrumors 6502

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    #6
    According to today's lunchtime BBC news, this story is only covered by 1 newspaper US today (in Baltamore). I just checked a random few online and sure enough didn't see any mention.

    What the hell!! This is probably the most explosive single news event of the last year comming from Iraq, and will have untold consequences for the reconstruction.

    So much for the liberal media!!!
     
  6. Sayhey thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #7
    Be prepared for any Arab, particularly Iraqi, response to these outrages to be laid at the feet of Dan Rather and 60 Minutes. The Rush/Hannity line of questioning the patriotism of the messenger is as inevitable as day follows night.
     
  7. numediaman macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    You are absolutely right. In order to get more news about a story that was first covered by CBS News, I have had to read online newspapers from overseas.

    But wait, next we hear that the State Department has put out a report that terrorism is down! Bush has saved the world. Of course, the report does not include attacks in Iraq -- I guess they didn't want to include US actions.


    US military in torture scandal

    Use of private contractors in Iraqi jail interrogations highlighted by inquiry into abuse of prisoners

    Julian Borger in Washington
    Friday April 30, 2004
    The Guardian

    Graphic photographs showing the torture and sexual abuse of Iraqi prisoners in a US-run prison outside Baghdad emerged yesterday from a military inquiry which has left six soldiers facing a possible court martial and a general under investigation.

    The scandal has also brought to light the growing and largely unregulated role of private contractors in the interrogation of detainees.

    According to lawyers for some of the soldiers, they claimed to be acting in part under the instruction of mercenary interrogators hired by the Pentagon.

    US military investigators discovered the photographs, which include images of a hooded prisoner with wires fixed to his body, and nude inmates piled in a human pyramid.

    The pictures, which were obtained by an American TV network, also show a dog attacking a prisoner and other inmates being forced to simulate sex with each other. It is thought the abuses took place in November and December last year.

    The pictures from Abu Ghraib prison have shocked the US army.

    Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, deputy director of operations for the US military in Iraq, expressed his embarrassment and regret for what had happened. He told the CBS current affairs programme 60 Minutes II: "If we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1206725,00.html
     
  8. Sayhey thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #9
    I saw a story on this on my local CBS affiliate's Eleven O'Clock broadcast last night. Not all US media is ignoring the story. To be fair, CBS sat on the story for two weeks out of concern for US and allied citizens being held hostage by Iraqi militia. I'm sure that is part of the reason for the tepid response to this news and I wouldn't want to be one of those hostages or their relatives for anything in the world this morning. All of that doesn't mean that this could be held back indefinitely.
     
  9. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #10
    Indeed a quick perusal of the sites SlyHunter uses for sources (ie Newsmax, Boortz, Drudge etc.) show nary a mention of this story. At least there is tepid mention of this story in the mainstream media. The conservative media wants it to go away, so they won't talk about it.
     
  10. radhak macrumors regular

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    #11
    I don't know about that. I found a whole list on http://www.google.com/news

    I found this interesting, additional post on USA Today : Accused Soldier tells of questions. Reactions from the family members of the people accused / identified in the pictures...
     
  11. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #12
    i just saw those pictures in german tv....

    truly disgusting how those prisoners got treated but i havn't found any pictures online...

    i guess somebody should have read this :
    http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm
     
  12. SlyHunter macrumors newbie

    SlyHunter

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    #13
    Actually Neal Boortz reports
    http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html
    and Drudge Report has their story here http://drudgereport.com/flash2.htm
    And it is kind of pointless to repeat on every news source one single news story when its already being covered so throughly. But they apparently did anyhow.
    [​IMG]

    Worldnet Daily didn't have their own story they posted a link directly to another papers story instead.
    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-te.guard29apr29,0,6084344.story?coll=bal-home-headlines
     
  13. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #14
    Well it's all over the papers in every other country.
     
  14. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #15
    Ok, first, it is just wrong what these soldiers did. They did not kill them, mame them, they humilliated them, and yes, it is wrong, but how exactly do we know these are Iraqi's?

    I thought people in this country were innocent until proven guilty?

    This is not the US military, but yet the actions of a few stupid people.
     
  15. SlyHunter macrumors newbie

    SlyHunter

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    #16
    What I havn't heard on the liberal mass media are stories like
     
  16. SlyHunter macrumors newbie

    SlyHunter

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    #17
    They are guilty.
    The ones who took the pictures gave them to people who gave them to people who are now prosecuting them. Sit in your room with a paper bag over your head then think what it would be like if your arms were tied and you couldn't remove that bag. That is standard operating procedure for handling prisoners and I doubt I would live thru just that with my sanity intact and that is legal. Add to it what they did and well they deserve much worse than they are going to get. They're just going to go to jail for a couple of decades.
     
  17. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #18
    Well it wasn't there yesterday when I looked. Guess even they can't ignore it anymore.
     
  18. Danrose1977 macrumors regular

    Danrose1977

    #19
    Despite the actions being by only a small group, they do represent the US military and all coalition forces. This is the kind of thing that can only increase resistance and anger, thus endangering all coalition forces. If it is found that troops from the UK have been involved in such activities I will be deeply ashamed. I'm not a nationalist, but the actions of a countries soldiers reflect on the country, as they are ambasadors for the nation they represent.
     
  19. SlyHunter macrumors newbie

    SlyHunter

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    #20
    Are you going to say that when heads start to roll in this oil for food scandal? Or are you going to say we can't condemn the entire UN for the crimes of a few individuals?
     
  20. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #21

    You seem to think the entire Palestinian populace is complicit in the suicide bombings of a few individuals...
     
  21. SlyHunter macrumors newbie

    SlyHunter

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    #22
    I think that they are not policing their own. That they are not going out and arresting or prosecuting the terrorists in their society. For that they are guilty. They are thus enablers.
     
  22. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #23
    I guarantee you this isn't the only incident of prisoner abuse. Probably most don't get reported, arrested, or prosecuted. By your logic the US citizenry are complicit in the Iraqi prisoner abuse.
     
  23. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #24
    true (i hope so, anyway), but the damage to the US' image is devastating. w/ no WMD turned up, that leaves freeing iraqis of the abuses of saddam as the sole legitimate reason for the invasion. now the world is being told the US is just as bad, if not worse, than saddam.

    think back to the weeks after 9/11 and how the world felt about the US. it's a stunning turnaround.
     
  24. toontra macrumors 6502

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    #25
    Let's not forget the irony of this in reference to the larger picture.

    War was justified by the US on 3 grounds:

    1) WMD

    2) Ties with Al Qaida

    3) Humanitarian

    The first two have been debunked.

    If the occupying forces are seen to be acting no better than Sadam, bang goes the third, and there will have been no point whatsoever in the loss of countless thousands of lives.

    It will then look to an increasingly skeptical world that the real reason was in fact a fourth one - i.e. geopolitical ambition by the US.
     

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