world series anti climatic

Discussion in 'Community' started by jefhatfield, Oct 23, 2004.

  1. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #1
    the boston red sox put the curse to rest this week...they have already won five world series in their history, but for the last 80+ years, the new york yankees have owned the boston red sox...every championship pennant, every key at bat, every pitching duel, everything that counted and had the balance of a season at stake...not to mention new york routinely bought out boston players or outbid the team for a key superstar

    no more

    now the red sox may win the world series against the st louis cardinals or they may lose, but being a west coast baseball fan, i don't really care...it's just nice to see that new york can no longer treat boston as a minor league team anymore

    as for championship games, when i watched football in the 1990s, the real superbowl was the nfc championship in the 92-93-94 seasons where the two best teams in the nfl, the dallas cowboys and the san francisco 49ers met up...two times the cowboys won and then went on to win uneventful, one-sided superbowls and once the 49ers beat dallas in a thriller and then went on to win an uneventful superbowl where they routed the san diego chargers
     
  2. Spymit007 macrumors regular

    Spymit007

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    #2
    I honestly don't think the World Series is going to be anti-climatic. You have 2 teams that have such history. The Red Sox and Cardinals are some of the oldest ballclubs in baseball. While it may not be as exciting as the ALCS was, I think it will still prove to be quite entertaining for the fans.

    As for the Red Sox winning the world series, I'll only say this. On the radio yesterday, I heard some DJ's (forgot which station I was listening to) comparing the Red Sox beating the Yankees to the 1980 US Olympic hockey team beating the Soviet Union. While everyone remembers that "miracle", what some people don't realize is that after being the Russians, the US team still had to go on and beat another team in order to win the gold (I think it was Finland, I'm not sure). I feel bad for Cardinals fans if that will be the case because if the Sox win the world series, people in the future might make the mistake that the Sox beat the Yankees to win the World Series, not the Cardinals.

    But I think this will be a memorable World Series. Boston fans have been waiting a long time for this. I was only 5 the last time the Red Sox made it to this point. I can't wait for tonight.
     
  3. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    Jul 4, 2004
    #3
    Even some of us who don't usually care about sports & live in the UK have heard about this particular World Series... (I used to play softball in school, though)

    It'll be playing on my bedside radio as I drift off to sleep.

    Was also reminded of the 'curse' 'cos I was watching 'Cheers' on DVD the other night. Season 1: Tortelli's Tort, where Carla attacks an obnoxious Yankees fan...
     
  4. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #4
    I disagree about the curse... the Sox have beaten the Yankees and won divisions, been to the Series, etc. since 1918, but have never WON the series as compared to the 26 the Yankees have... the curse isn't just "beat the Yankees"... the curse is things like Buckner (nothing to do with the Yankees, though it was the Mets), etc. The Yankees do figure in prominently (like last year), but it is the SERIES... not just the Yankees. I don't think just beating the Yankees and losing the series "lifts the curse" (not that I believe in a real curse).
     
  5. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #5
    I agree... only AFTER the series can we say if it was anticlimactic. It may or may not be. It could turn out to be a classic (like the Braves/Twins) or a dud. I'm old enough to remember the last time the Cardinals and Red Sox played in the series, and it was a classic... I listened to it on a little transistor radio with an ear plug in jr high school.
     
  6. Kwyjibo macrumors 68040

    Kwyjibo

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    Nov 5, 2002
    #6
    Thats a pretty bad attitude ... because they're aren't any cali teams i don't care ... I'm a fan of baseball ... more specifically a cubs fan. I don't like the cards, they're the cubs most hated rival, but they have been playing excellent baseball all season, so I respect them and will respect the quality games produced by these two powerhouses and I will be watching.

    Me and my friends have a small bet on the number of times we'll hear the name bucknner until the end of the WS. The real question would be is Ortiz going to play first during the Saint Louis games and how the redsox will perform in NL conditions ... its much eaiser for the cardinals to gain one bat in the AL than the Red Sox to lose two because they're pitchers aren't especially great at batting.

    I also have a problem with the coverage ... It can't be the best comeback ever AND the worst collapse, because if the collapse was so great, it decreases the qualtiy of the comeback. The Red Sox can only break the curse if they win a WS ...
     
  7. Spymit007 macrumors regular

    Spymit007

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    Massachusetts
    #7
    Why not? I don't see how the Yankees' monumental collapse somehow diminishes Boston's comeback. The Yankees led the American League in wins. On paper, their lineup was top-notch. This was a team that was built to win championships. As of last Saturday night, New York was just one game short of sealing the deal. Again, it's been said numerous times elsewhere but I'll just say it again to reiterate: How a team could be up 3-0 and then allow the opposing team to win 4 straight to take the series has to be the biggest choke job in the history of professional sports.

    Now on the flipside, the Red Sox had history and statistics against them. Agan, after the Yankees destroyed the Sox in Game 3, most people had given up on the Sox, proclaiming the ALCS a dud and Boston as good as dead. I'll concede that after last Saturday, I didn't give the Sox much chance. I figured they might win Game 4 and maybe Game 5 to avoid the Yankees winning the pennant in Boston. But I never thought they would go on to rally back and win the series. Nobody did. And look where we are now. The media was more than willing to point out the fact that in the history of baseball, no team had EVER come back from a 3-0 deficit to win a series. The fact that the Red Sox did just that more than justifies them winning as the greatest comeback ever. I see no problem with intertwining the comeback and collapse together. In my mind, they go hand in hand.

    In regards to the Red Sox winning the World Series, I agree in the sense that if they win, it will make the Yankees defeat seem all the more satisfying. As for breaking curses, I don't believe in it. I'm frankly sick of it. It's nothing more than some media created and fan obssessed euphemism. There is no curse. I doubt ANYONE knows the exact history of the curse. If they did, they'd realize it was all just a bunch of baloney. What sounds more appealing? The fact that the Red Sox have not won a World Series in 86 years because of some voodoo mystical dealings in the supernatural or because they simply weren't good enough or just suffered from some bad plays when it counted the most. Just remember this maxim when referring to the curse:

    An attractive lie sounds infinitely better than a mere statement of truth.

    GO SOX!
     
  8. Kwyjibo macrumors 68040

    Kwyjibo

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    #8
    I think its better to say choke than collapse.
     
  9. wordmunger macrumors 603

    wordmunger

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    North Carolina
    #9
    That was an amazing series. I think it will take something equally unbelievable for the World Series to overcome it. It's like the year Duke beat Kentucky on Laettner's last minute shot. That was in the elite 8, not the final game. Or the U.S. hockey team victory over U.S.S.R.--a semifinal game, not the finals. No one remembers the finals when there's such an amazing contest early on. Even if the Red Sox win it all, it's probably the Yankees series that everyone will remember.
     
  10. Kwyjibo macrumors 68040

    Kwyjibo

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    Nov 5, 2002
    #10
    excellent examples, i had to pause for a second about the laettner thing ... I"m not sure this will be quite the same , people should rememeber the cardinals dominating the whole season ... ALWAYS guard the inbounder!
     
  11. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    Jul 9, 2000
    #11
    that's my main point...in a few years, assuming boston wins this world series, people will be like, who did they beat in the world series??...but any baseball fan will not believe the year boston beat the yankees after they had the red sox down 3-0...it is baseball legend and something we will tell our grandkids about...the way some baseball fans talk about the year maris went for 61 home runs in a season or when reggie jackson hit those three consecutive home runs sealing the title of "mr. october"

    two things would have to happen for me to make this world series just as big

    1) the cards going up 3-0 and then losing to boston who sweeps four in a row

    2) george steinbrenner purchasing the cardinals today and adding all of the yankees to the cardinal's roster...and then having boston beat them...again

    no team is hated in baseball more than the yankees and to see the yankees choke in the post season they way they did, and against boston, is one of those events bigger than the world series

    yes, the us hockey team won the gold beating finland, or somebody, but beating russia en route to the finals was what was on the news highlights and will always be...i remember when the denver broncos were winless in the superbowl but football historians remember "the drive"

    the niners were winless in superbowls once but the catch will be the highlight play of 49ers history, not any single play from their five superbowl wins that came later

    and i predict, one event this decade will be most remembered in baseball...and it won't have anything to do with the world series, or affect the outcome of any key game...it will be, if and when, barry bonds beats aaron for the home run record...yeah, you can talk about steroids all you want or how bad barry treats the press and fans, but it will easily be the biggest baseball story and most played clip of this decade

    part of me wants to see bonds beat the record, but the other part of me wants to see someone else, sammy sosa? or a more popular player than bonds, be the first to beat hank aaron's record...i would also love to see ichiro beat pete rose's all time hits record, but i don't that that it is even remotely a possibility being that ichiro came into american baseball so late in his life
     
  12. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #12
    let's say that boston already had ten world series wins since 1918, in addition to the five they had before the ruth trade, but still never beat the yankees in the alcs...the so called curse would still be alive...as long as the yanks own the red sox in the post season

    the yanks could go on to win the next ten alcs matchups against the red sox and achieve 40 world series wins someday, but it will never erase what happened this week collapsing against the red sox

    the yankees are easily the greatest team in baseball history, but they can never shake the loss to the brooklyn dodgers in '55 and it will be a sore point in their history forever

    the curse is between new york and boston...and the great babe ruth somehow jinxing the red sox from behind the grave...but really, it's about statistics and championships and personal milestones since really there is no curse...too many things have happened in baseball to make any one milestone stand forever...but there was a time when maris and his 61 home runs seemed to be the record which would stand longer than any

    some records stand for a long, long time and i think that ichiro set the bar up high for season hits which will only be broken by him, if at all, in the rest of our lifetimes...and i am pretty confident that 73 home runs in a season will stand for a long time...but then again i thought mcgwire would never live to see 70 passed up ;)

    but the least likely series of events would be for any one, or two teams to kick butt in the next five decades and surpass the yankees in world series rings
     
  13. gwuMACaddict macrumors 68040

    gwuMACaddict

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    washington dc
    #13
    anti-CLIMATIC? whats it have to do with the weather. climaCtic.

    and its gonna be a great series
     
  14. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #14
    Not if this BALCO mess catches up with him :rolleyes:
     
  15. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #15
    just a quick question from somebody not living in the US: why is it called world series ?
     
  16. HiRez macrumors 603

    HiRez

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    Western US
    #16
    Yep, gotta go with the NL team even though I have a soft spot for the Sox (saw my first ML game in Fenway Park in 1987).

    Also agree that the Sox beating the Yanks in one series lifts the curse: it doesn't. They'd have to win the WS at least. But I also have a more sinister reason for rooting for St. Louis. See, I'm a Giants fan. The only two teams who are more cursed now than the Giants are the Red Sox and the Cubs. If they start winning and shed their curses, guess who becomes The Team With The Curse? That's right, the Giants. So, sorry, the Sox will just have to take another one on the chin for the good of us Giants fans. :)
     
  17. wrc fan macrumors 65816

    wrc fan

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    #17
    [SARCASM]Wait? People live outside the U.S.? I didn't think there was anything out there but oil rigs[/SARCASM]

    Being non-sarcastic though, I doubt they would ever change it from being the "World Series" to being the "North American Series" or even "United States and Toronto Series"
     
  18. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #18
    Bonds may well beat Aaron's record, but it will forever be tainted, not asterisked (like Maris' 61 in 162 games). Tainted is far worse than the asterisk. The asterisk says "conditions changed". Tainted says "you cheated but we didn't do anything about it because we wanted the money it brought to baseball".
     
  19. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #19
    Lots of good stuff in game 1 and now we get to see Schilling again... I for one will be watching just to see how he pitches. Would love to see it go 7 games, finish on Halloween with Schilling bleeding on the mound but pitching the Sox to a championship. What a picture that would make for an SI cover... Schilling being carried off the field because he couldn't walk, blood oozing out of his ankle.
     
  20. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #20
    before the giants lost in the world series to anaheim, three teams seemed more cursed than the giants...the cubs, the red sox, and the anaheim angels

    the angels put their curse to rest imho, and boston did against new york this week...and i suspect the cubs will lift their curse before the giants do...the cubs may be cursed but sammy sosa has sure put a lot of good press on the cubs...even out here in northern california, i see tons of cubs clothing and sosa shirts...i wish bonds was as nice and charismatic as sosa

    at least in football san francisco knew how to operate under a curse...with joe montana and company, the niners went from being the worst football team in nfl history, or at least the most laughable, to a dynasty...the year before they won their first superbowl, the went 2-14

    nothing is permanent in sports...the sf giants will eventually prevail and win one world series while a san francisco team but will probably be the last team in baseball with a curse on their head..but when sf wins one, die hard fans will still be sore about anaheim, and really be sore about being blasted by oakland, 4-0 in the earthquake world series...while oakland had better pitching, there was no excuse for the giants to lose four straight like that...and by their neighbor oakland, of all teams...perhaps the only way to lift the giants curse will be to beat oakland in a world series...until then, oakland fans will always brag that their team is better...oakland also won three world series in a row in recent history so they are way ahead of the giants in all respects

    in basketball, a couple of times in my life it seemed that the lakers would be the team forever...in the 80s, nobody would rain on their parade and it looked good for them as they entered the next decade but the bulls had the 90s...and when they had shaq and kobe and three championships, they seemed destined to go on as well as the 80s lakers...who thought shaq would be out?
     
  21. wordmunger macrumors 603

    wordmunger

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    #21
    I think it's called the world series because when it started, we were the only ones playing baseball. Now it's tradition. That and of course we know an American team could beat any team in the world, just like in basketball...

    ... oops... nevermind....
     
  22. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    Jul 9, 2000
    #22
    an american team minus the egos can beat anybody in the world

    but our professional, highly paid, california based los angeles lakers don't have any egos...nada ;)
     
  23. mms macrumors 6502a

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    CA
    #23
    Supporting the Red Sox, I'm happy for their wins in Games 1 and 2 but I'm afraid that the World Series this year are going to be boring if they win too easily. I was originally hoping for another comeback from a 3-0 deficit (I can dream, right?) but now that they've won two games, it's just not as interesting anymore. We'll see how they do when they're no longer in Fenway Park but in St. Louis tomorrow night though.
     
  24. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    Nov 1, 2001
    Location:
    VA
    #24
    Its happened before that the playoffs have been more emotional and interesting than the actual series - even last year, the best games were played before the finals.

    And as long as it goes more than 5 games it will be a great series, you need to have a little drama :D

    D
     
  25. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    Jul 9, 2000
    #25
    the only thing that could happen now to match the great new york-boston battle in the alcs would be for st. louis to now go four in a row and win the world series with some extra inning games thrown in there

    i hope the cardinals win at least two but the way things are going this series will probably be over tomorrow or the next day...i think no more drama could still be there after two seven game contests in the playoffs
     

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