WoT Propaganda: Worms Turning?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by skunk, Oct 17, 2004.

  1. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #1

    Of course it's precisely because the media have been so supine in their acceptance of government spin, and because war, fear, death and glory make such profitable headlines, that "public consciousness" has become so receptive to shrill and simplistic fear-mongering. The argument is entirely circular.
     
  2. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #2
    In 1993 we had WTC 1. In 2001 we had WTC 2. We've seen/heard the videotapes of OBL, with his stated goals. We know of the teachings of many of the mullahs in the madrassahs, focussed on "Jihad".

    Are we to believe there is no threat?

    Kidnappings, bombs and shootings occur in the Philippines, Indonesia, Spain and other places. The people doing it claim affiliation or membership in Al Qaida. Are they lying?

    I'm not about to argue against the idea that the degree of fear is overblown, but the whole problem with a widespread hostile group given to devices aimed "to whom it may concern" is that one has no way of knowing if one is or is not in a threatened area...

    'Rat
     
  3. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #3
    Of course one doesn't, but that does not mean one should overrate the infinitessimal actuarial risk and change one's whole lifestyle and world-view to accommodate it.
     
  4. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #4
    Now maybe you can understand why us old hardbutts refer to the "Nanny State". For over 40 years (over 60, if you go back to FDR) we've focussed on safety and security in our society and demanded that these be provided by government. Welfare, Social Security, Medicare, Consumer Protection...

    So, when we find out that there are indeed folks who will die in order to take some of us with them because we are "not them", it's upsetting. "The national psyche is shocked, I tell you, shocked!" This makes it easy for those in government who want ever more controls over us to pass laws and write regulations restricting liberty. WE WANT THEM TO!

    Remember the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta? Polls taken afterwards indicated some 50+% agreed they'd trade some liberty for security. Couple that with the newsies' penchant for "If it bleeds, it leads." and you have today's U.S. of A.

    The only time I'd be somewhat nervous--insofar as any change in my daily affairs or attitude--would be if I were to fly over to Germany to visit my son and DIL. (Odds are I'm at more personal hazard from airport security than from terrorists.) Outside of that, I wander around in the same fashion as in the last umpteen years. The odds are on my side that if anything bad happens, I ain't gonna be there anyway. Odds are, anything bad will be either in a major city or at some infrastructure like an oil refinery, and I have no reason to be in either place. Me and Alfred E. Neumann, I guess...

    :), 'Rat
     
  5. LeeTom macrumors 68000

    LeeTom

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    #5
    This is part of the point that the documentary is trying to make! You're oversimplifying the whole thing, thus making it something it isn't.
    Osama Bin Laden is not waging war against us because we are "not them," that is the most ridiculous thing ever.
    He's doing it because of our support for Israel.
    You know why I think that?
    CAUSE THAT'S WHAT HE ****ING SAID!

    Lee Tom
     
  6. diamond geezer macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2004
    #6
    Here we go, it's the old "they hate our freedom" BS.

    A nice answer that conveniently suggests that America is faultless and should have to look at the realities of its foreign policy.
     
  7. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #7
    'Scuse me. Is it some Big Lie that there are mullahs in madrassahs who are preaching Jihad? This is not happening?

    "Jihad" as being taught is about killing "Infidels". At least that's what's been reported numerous times over the last several years. Allegedly by the writers, that's what they've observed. Seen. Heard. Is all this just part of some Big Lie?

    If not, since I'm an Infidel in the eyes of Islam, I'm a target for somebody's interpretation of Jihad. So are you. There are a billion Islamics, we're told. I leave it to you to calculate what one-tenth of one percent is, in the assumption that only that amount is affected by this anti-Infidel hatred.

    I agree it's not about freedom, as we commonly think about it. But when it is preached that our movies, our music, our women's styles of dress are evil, am I to think that these "freedoms" aren't part of the dislike of western "culture"? I just now had an OldTimer's Disease attack about the name of the guy who ousted the Shah of Iran, but he was big on verbal attacks on what I just described.

    Now, I can understand OBL's views of our support of Israel. Do those views create the right to get guys to die in air crashes into the World Trade Center buildings? "In my view, geezer, you're doing wrong, and I thus have the right to attack your friends and family or whomever else is a symbol of your life." Duh?

    That our foreign policies in the mideast may have been wrong during many of our past and recent administrations somehow creates a right to kill western civilians who are not connected to government? It has been wrong that since Truman's presidency, we've helped to stave off the genocide of all Israelis? IIRC, the Israelis didn't initiate hostilities in 1967 and 1973.

    Our support for Isreal has been an add-on for OBL. He began by foaming against our presence in Saudi Arabia. He said this was the impetus for his hatred of us. We're desecrating sacred soil, he sez. Fine. Isn't his proper target, then, the Saudi government? Aren't we there by their invitation or acquiescence? Would we not leave if the Saudi rulers so requested?

    'Rat
     
  8. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #8
    Is it not also true that there are Christian preachers out there who are preaching Crusade? This is not happening?

    "Crusade" as being taught is about killing infidels. At least that's what's been reported numerous times over the last several (hundred) years. Is all this just part of some big lie?

    If not, since they are Infidel in the eyes of Christianity, they are a target for somebody's interpretation of Christianity. So are their neighbors. There are more than a billion Christians, we're told. I'll leave it to you blah blah blah...

    Do you not realize they use the same arguments we use to justify their actions, while telling us we are wrong for justifying it with the same logic?

    So you agree it's not about them hating our freedom, but then you go on to say it's about them hating our freedom? Now that sounds like a flip flop! :p

    Ok, so OBL doesn't like the way we handle our support of foreign governments, but that doesn't give him the right to violence over it? Then how do you turn around and say that we don't like the way Saddam handles his support of people we don't like, so that gives us the right to invade him? Duh-ble standard?

    That Saddam's foreign policies in the mideast may have been wrong somehow creates a right for the US to kill (not to mention capture and hold without trial, as well as torturing) middle eastern civilians who are not connected to the government?

    Are you starting to understand that your logic is applicable to both sides, and as such is useless to claim the 'moral high ground' with?

    Now you get it. It's not about our freedoms, or hating western culture. It's about the House of Saud, Bush's buddies. OBL wants them gone and the government replaced with a fundamentalist form of Islam. He really could give a rat's ass about the US strategically. 9/11 was about trying to destroy our relationship with the Saudis, not trying to destroy the US. What nationality were most of the 9/11 hijackers again?

    We could do ourselves a lot of good by cutting ties with the corrupt House of Saud, and stopping our one-sided support of Israel.

    Oh and on the topic of the article:
    Don't you natter on all the time about how the threat of guns is overplayed in our media, and how you wish they would get away from the scare tactics that push an anti-gun agenda? Yet when you hear that the threat of terrorism is overplayed, your response is 'Well do you doubt these Islamists pose a threat? Is is all part of Some Big Lie?'. Well, are the threats of gun violence all part of SBL?
     
  9. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #9
    "Senior Moment" sounds much nicer.

    It was Ayatollah Khomeini, btw.
     
  10. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar

Share This Page