XBox 360 different media?

Discussion in 'Games' started by Tommyg117, Dec 3, 2005.

  1. Tommyg117 macrumors 6502a

    Tommyg117

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    #1
    Ok, so I know I have asked this before but I havn't really recieved an answer. I have read interviews with J. Allard where he doesn't sound very convinced about the DVD having enough space for the games in the future. He said "its a good things we have a flexable piece of hardware and we can upgrade to an HD-DVD if the trend goes that way". How would microsoft do this without screwing over everyone that has already bought an Xbox-360? I am just a little concerned because I want one, but don't want to drop 400 dollars when they come out with a better one later on. any one have any advice to put my mind at ease and help me decide on the 360? (because you know I'm dying to get one, I want to make sure!)
     
  2. Nermal Moderator

    Nermal

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    #2
    The HD-DVD drive will only be for movies. The games will still be on regular media.
     
  3. CHROMEDOME macrumors regular

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    #3
    Even IF MS decides to upgrade the 360's dvd drive to HD-DVD, the games WILL NEVER EVER be put onto HD-DVD discs
     
  4. Josh396 macrumors 65816

    Josh396

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    #4
    Right. Someone from Microsoft came out and said this. So it appears you'll be fine.
     
  5. Bubbasteve macrumors 65816

    Bubbasteve

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    #5
    I can second this, I heard the same thing
     
  6. seenew macrumors 68000

    seenew

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  7. jared_kipe macrumors 68030

    jared_kipe

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    #7
    Mmm, so they don't screw over the old customers?

    Besides, DVDs are so cheap if they need more space they can just go dual layer or have a few DVDs in one game.
     
  8. twoodcc macrumors P6

    twoodcc

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    #8
    i've heard that the ps3 will have games on blu-ray disks (or whatever). it seems to me that this is an advantage for the ps3
     
  9. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #9
    Xbox 360 different media?...

    ...would be an extremely bad idea. I'm up to date with the console news and yea its true that official Microsoft folk say that it COULD play HD-DVD in the future but will not be used for games.

    Back to the bad idea. ok, so we're Microsoft. we'll release TWO sets of systems, but just so we don't alienate the Core users and get our arses sued to kingdom come we'll have to have Core as the limiting factor. We cannot assume people will have a HDD so there goes a lot of features. Then we'll release another 360 thats HD-DVD compatible. so all new games will only play on that system, or have games on both HD-DVD and DVD which will bump up disc pressing costs.

    Not even MS are that stupid.
    If I were them I would have kept the 360 back at least 6 months and stuck a HD-DVD player in there. that would have been amazing. certainly a massive push for me to buy one. Maybe they'd have enough time to produce a lot of 360's to keep up with demand... instead of annoying a lot of people :)
     
  10. Abulia macrumors 68000

    Abulia

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    #10
    ^^^^^ What he said, except I do own one and am happy with it. :)
     
  11. grapes911 Moderator emeritus

    grapes911

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    #11
    Yes and no. PS3 games will have the ability to have games that are much larger in size. But many games that come out for both systems will be limited by the weakest link (360 game size). If Blu-ray wins the next-gen DVD war, this will be at huge advantage. You'll be getting a $1000 Blu-ray player for about $400-500. If HD-DVD wins, then it is much less of an advantage. You'll still be able to have more data for games, but you won't be able to play the HD-DVDs that will be coming out.
     
  12. jdechko macrumors 68040

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    #12
    And if MS did release an XBox 360 with an HD-DVD player in it, it would have possibly (but still could) greatly affect the competition between HD-DVD and Blu-ray. As has been mentioned (and may very well happen) Sony is planning on including a Blu-ray drive in their PS3. That may be part of a larger strategy for Sony. When studios start putting out movies on HD disks (Blu-Ray or HD-DVD) Blu-Ray has an automatic built-in user base consisting of everyone who has a PS3.

    Additionally, if Blu-ray takes off with the PS3 and wins the format war, MS could release a Blu-Ray drive for the X360 rather than an HD-DVD drive. I guess it seems to me like MS has too much at stake with the 360 (after the 4bn loss on the Xbox) to include technology (at a hefty price to the consumer) which may or may not pay off for MS.

    So in my mind, it's more of a benefit for Sony than it is a loss for MS. Sony has its hands in the creation of Blu-ray anyway, so it wants to give itself every opportunity for Blu-Ray to win the HD format war - it has to. MS is just providing access to the content, and can do so regardless of which format wins... its just a matter of supplying the right codec for it. I think MS is just trying to hedge its bets right now, and they're playing a waiting game.
     
  13. Abulia macrumors 68000

    Abulia

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    #13
    This is kind of the key. Sony is using one segment of the company (PS3) to ram their video standard of another branch of the company onto the consumer. Sony owns Blu-Ray, so of course they want everyone to use it; having it in the PS3 will pretty much render the format war "over" without really a shot being fired.

    Then, of course, they get to license that technology to anyone who wants to make a Blu-Ray player from here on out. Gotta love Sony and their propritary formats... :rolleyes:
     
  14. jdechko macrumors 68040

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    #14
    That's what I'm saying in all likelihood will happen. We really don't know if that's how it will play out yet because the film studios haven't started releasing HD movies yet.

    Just like all the other proprietary formats, a lot of technology companies have them: MS (too many to list), Sony (ATRAC, etc), Nintendo (with their 6cm optical disks), Apple (w/ FairPlay). Fortunately, a lot of companies are willing to license out their technology (I know that the list I gave had ones that aren't licensed, except for MS), and that's what keeps it so we can use a lot of the tech.
     
  15. Abulia macrumors 68000

    Abulia

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    #15
    I don't fault Sony (too much) for their new technology, just the way they "shove" it down our throats. I have a 60" television with a memory stick port that I don't want nor need, but Sony wants me to have it because SD cards and the five other portable storage mediums just aren't enough. ;)

    I guess I prefer innovation through collaboration, versus one company's idea of what we ought to be using, be it Blu-Ray or VHS.

    Then there's this whole other level of what's better for the consumer? We've spent how many years getting consumers up to speed and converted over to DVD? Now there's Blu-Ray, not compatable (without work). Joe Consumer wants to buy a DVD-HD player because he knows what DVD means and HD means; he has no idea what "Blu-Ray" means. Plus, those movies are going to be cheaper and just as good for his use. Mass confusion ensues.

    Blu-Ray may be a superior technology, but at some level I have to wonder: are we doing what's best for the consumer or for Sony? Beta was the better format but VHS in the long run was better for the consumer. That problem seemed to work out pretty well for everyone in the long run...save Sony, that is.

    Sorry, I'm horribly off-topic now, aren't I? ;)
     
  16. Tommyg117 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Tommyg117

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    #16
    You've got a great point about beta and VHS. I think for gaming, blu-ray is a better choice. For movies? Whatever is cheaper I think will be more effective because a lot of people aren't going to want to spend MORE money to get their stuff again. I for one, don't look forward to having to purchase new forms of media, I have a pretty extensive DVD collection, I don't want to have to buy all new stuff. Ugh.
     
  17. jdechko macrumors 68040

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    #17
    (Trying to address your comments in order)
    1) I agree, there are too many different portable media formats currently. I own a sony camera and laptop (my parents have a sony cam + tv) so that whole thing works out pretty well for us, but its something else that can break for someone like you.

    2) I agree that there should be more collaboration between companies in developing huge technologies. There are companies working together for both formats, but still...

    3) I agree with most of the consumer chaos theory, except a few things. I believe that overall (mainly because of the internet) Joe Consumer is better informed than he was for the Betamax/VHS format war. A lot of this is that we have better stores from which to buy technology and also the internet, which is great for spreding information about new and upcoming technology. Joe can go online and compare the formats side by side, as well as read what the "experts" are saying. Joe now knows a lot more about storage capacity (thanks to computers - Joe knows that Gigabytes are good), his home movies, mp3s and his digital pictures. He knows that DVD's are not limited to his living room, but also his office where his computer is. There is much more interaction between living room and "office" in 2005, and there will continue to be more.

    4) After losing Betamax/VHS, Sony knows that Joe Consumer is interested in price, and that it is Joe's driving force in the decision. The Blu-ray technology is still evolving, and I think that we will see virtually no difference in the price of a Blu-ray disc vs a HD-DVD disc.

    5) Blu-Ray is a superior technology, just as Betamax was. But Joe Consumer has a lot more information on which to base his decision (See point 3). Joe also knows that he can do a lot with the format (either format, for that matter).

    6) The conclusion I draw, and the point I keep going back to, is that Joe Consumer is more educated this time around and can see the benefits (of perhaps a format that costs a little more) but also has more to offer him. Sony is still a company and has to make money for its shareholders, but I think that this time around, the format will swing in Sony's favor.

    7) Maybe we're just a little OT. :eek:
     
  18. benpatient macrumors 68000

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    #18
    See, the problem is that Sony hasn't shown that they've "learned" from betamax. They also "lost" with minidisc.
    and DSD (SACD)
    and that mp3 replacement thing.
    and (soon to be a loss) UMD.
    You've probably not even ever heard of microMV, but that failed too.

    Not to mention the many formats they tried to force on Japan that also failed, but never made it to the US.

    They do NOT learn from this. The only standard they've ever remotely supported is the CD. You could argue that they supported DVD-Video, as well, because they didn't provide a real alternative...

    When they support a standard, they don't dominate the industry, but the industry "gels" and gets behind the standard.

    Oh, and as to beta being "better" than VHS, I would have to argue that making a tape arbitrarily smaller and thus unable to hold a 90 minute movie on a single tape, they killed their own "innovation."
     
  19. jdechko macrumors 68040

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    #19
    OK, so maybe sony haven't learned their lesson because of all of their proprietary formats that haven't been great. And maybe betamax wasn't the best (though improvements to the technology would likely have been made as they were throughout the life of VHS - I'm not the best expert on this as I was born about the time the format war was over :) ).

    But based on what I've read, I still think that the price of a blu-ray disc will be about the same as an HD-DVD one, and I still think that blu-ray is a better technology than HD-DVD.
     
  20. grapes911 Moderator emeritus

    grapes911

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    #20
    I think they have learned their lesson. Sony always got other companies involved in their development of technologies. With Blu-ray, they've taken that to the next level. Some of the biggest names in technology have contributed or are going to support the format. This alone should help propel Blu-ray to the masses.

    Some notable contributers to the format:
    Broadcom, Canon, CyberLink, Dolby, Electronic Arts, Fuji, Kenwood, LITE-ON, Mitsubishi, Mitsui, Nero, Paramount Pictures, Sun Microsystems, Universal Music Group, and the list goes on.

    Some notable companies that have not contributed to the technology, but officially pledged to support it:
    Adobe, Alpine, ATI, BenQ, Daewoo, Memorex, nVidia, Pinnacle, Sanyo, Yamaha, and again the list goes on and on.
     
  21. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #21
    The consumer is no more informed. We're not the usual consumers. A lot of us on Macrumors are the 'prosumers' or the informed consumers. Go check with mom and pop, they won't get what the difference is other than the price tag and some numbers.


    I think the PS3 might swing it over though. If Sony sells it even with a $200 or $300 loss, they can get a Blu-ray player and their video game system in every home, and take the loss to own the movie market and retain their position in the video game market. They'd make the money back on Blu-ray eventually.

    If Blu-ray...Sony will be in biiiiig trouble, taking a massive loss on the PS3.
     
  22. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #22
    On the subject of XBox 360 media; anyone heard that one of the upcoming titles, possibly Oblivion, may ship on four disks? :eek:
     
  23. Abulia macrumors 68000

    Abulia

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    #23
    I agree 100%. Perhaps I'm a cynic at heart, but I never underestimate the stupidity of consumers. ;)
     
  24. Abulia macrumors 68000

    Abulia

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    #24
    Yea, that rumor squeaked out yesterday. We'll see. On one side "see, we needed DVD-HD," on the other, "perhaps, but our DVD-ROM drive reads the data faster."

    I would hope that multi-disc Xbox games (if they exist) would be smart enough to check for the presence of the hard drive and doing some caching if at all possible.

    Four discs. That's crazy-insane if true.
     
  25. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #25
    Oh yeah, I got it from here.

    http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000903070963/

    It wouldn't be such a big deal if the latest fad wasn't expansive games. Think of Ultimate Spider-Man or Grand Theft Auto or Zelda: Wind Waker with incredibly large worlds. You can't keep going and going if you have to pop in a second disk to load the other half of the world.

    In the case of a linear game, multi-disk games aren't that big a problem.

    I wonder whether to hope for it being true or not. Because if true, that means:
    1) Disk swapping will be a pain, but
    2) Oblivion will be an INSANELY detailed game.
     

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