yea- bush is fearing for his job - 911 movie earnings for the weekend...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by gallagb, Jun 27, 2004.

  1. gallagb macrumors 6502

    gallagb

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    #1
  2. gwuMACaddict macrumors 68040

    gwuMACaddict

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    #2
    bush may have reason to fear for his job- but that movie will have nothing to do with it. it was a lame excuse for propoganda. i went in to the movie extremely excited to see it, and left completely discouraged.
     
  3. csubear macrumors 6502a

    csubear

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    #3
    you can think what you want, but everything presented in the movie was fact. and if you ask me at the end when Mr. Moore is parralling 1984, it truely got to me. having bush say "We will prevail" , was very frighting. there are just to many things that 1984 and our current international and homeland situations have in common, like AirStrip One. :)
    next thing you know FOX will start using New Speak. :)
     
  4. gallagb thread starter macrumors 6502

    gallagb

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    #4
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3844573.stm

    and the brits agree
    the movie made $

    i should back up my previous statement-
    true- this movie might not mean the downfall

    however- this movie does mean that documentary films have the potential of making $ in the theaters

    although there is a healthy debate of if this was a 'true' documentary or, as you said it, propaganda

    my opinion: is yet to be determined- i need to see the movie.
     
  5. musicpyrite macrumors 68000

    musicpyrite

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    #5
    Even though I'm (mostly) Republican, I'm dying to see the movie. :confused:

    I wanna see Michael More ride around in an ice cream truck reading the US Patriot Act. :D


    And when he also did the movie about gun control, Bowling for Columbine, he should have robbed the bank when they gave him the gun. :cool:
     
  6. applebum macrumors 6502

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    #6
    Yes, and nothing was left on the cutting room floor, nothing was edited, this is exactly the way everything happened and there is absolutely no insertion of personal opinion, and no attempt whatsoever to paint things with the filmakers paintbrush. The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth...

    Actually I don't enjoy movies like this, because they are presented as absolute fact, and yet I find myself wondering if there isn't more to the story than just what is shown onscreen. It seems I am immediately skeptical of what is presented by someone with extreme right or left beliefs/propaganda. I feel this way whenever I read something written by Ann Coulter as well.

    I just wonder if the majority of everyday Americans are just fairly central in their beliefs with left and right leanings - depending on the issue.
     
  7. KingSleaze macrumors 6502

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    #7
    Statistics are like facts, you can prove anything you want with the proper set of statistics.

    I don't care to see this movie. For the copyright infringements on 'Fahrenheit 451', which Moore acknowledged that he didn't respond to the call from Ray Bradbury until the movie was too well known. And because Moore himself acknowledges that he chose his facts to make the movie present his views.
     
  8. Soc7777777 macrumors regular

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    #8
    This movie was very well done by mike moore, but it only presents one side of the story...

    actually i enjoyed the film... i dont really agree with the conclusions moore draws from the facts... but that makes the movie all the more interesting...

    Example... Mr. Moore completely and totally showed, and proved the relationship the bush family has with saudi arabia, BUT, moore draws the conclusion that bush treats them better than he does the american people (actually he directly said that)... Is the bush family connected to the saudis in many different ways... YES... does that mean that that is affecting the way bush runs the country... NO...

    Another Example... Moore showed, and proved that the administration gave the bin ladin family a free pass out of the country on sept 12-13, then says taht bush did nothing with the family to try and see where osama was... the first part is true... but, the FBI is very secretive on issues of national security, and they very well could have interviewed the bin ladin family... heck they might not have wanted the family to have a lawyer so they could have shipped them out of the country THEN asked them the tough questions... who knows.. (only the FBI and CIA)...

    Moore brings up VERY interesting points, but he tends to take facts and DRAW conlcusions...

    I think if we made a movie out of all the presidents and focused on the negetive aspects.. we coudl make alot of them look bad... clinton had alot of chances to get bin laden... just like bush and the CIA had info that said bin laden wanted to hijack planes...

    overall i think this is a film that people should see... but in no means is it objective... its basicly like seeing facts, but though the glasses of michael moore (which may or may not be distorted, depending on your opinion)...

    one last note.. mr. moore found the part of the military and interviewed the anti bush part, but the military has ALWAYS in the last 15 years voted for the REP. party, esp in 2000... but yet all i saw was images of soldiers who disliked bush...
     
  9. jamdr macrumors 6502a

    jamdr

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    #9
    Hey GWUMacAddict--I used to go to GW. Is SJT still the highest paid idiot in the country?
     
  10. logicat2001 macrumors regular

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    #10
    :confused:

    Come on people, please wake up and smell the coffee: ALL media is slanted. All media is propaganda. ALL media is skewed.

    That is one of the central tenets of producing a work of media: you take something that is too huge (human experience) and constrain it to the boundaries of a media format (spoken word, text, photography, moving picture, etc.) In the process of doing so, you are simultaneously imprinting your own personal views, grievances, prejudices and promotions upon it.

    But that's the way it should be. We are human. Media is not.

    ALL truth that comes from without is mediated. The important connection is how you discern your own Truths from within, once you've shared a taste from that collective media pool.
     
  11. jywv8 macrumors 6502

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    #11
    Exactly. We all know where Moore's political affections lie. The movie presents his view of the 9/11 and the Bush administration, because, well, it's his movie. All these so-called 'grass roots' organizations trying to get it taken out of the theaters need to shut their collective pie holes. If you want to see the movie, go see it and enjoy it. If not, then stay home.

    I saw the movie last night. I thought it was excellent.
     
  12. Amani macrumors member

    Amani

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    #12
    Gallagb, thanks for getting this thread started. I was blown away by the movie and I plan to go see it again--and that, as a married man and father is something I never get around to, but I can't wait for the DVD to come out.

    The movie is difinitely propaganda, like most of the media and Bush regime reports. So there's nothing new abuot that. And yes, like all film makers, Moore exploits many of the subjects in the film in order to get his points across. Nothing new there either.

    But I ask--seriously asks--who else in film media is working that hard to bring another perpective about the Bush regime specifically, and geopolitics, race, and class in general?

    I don't need a balanced view! I need a perspective that I can't get from ABC, CBS, CNN, or Fox News. I don't need to hear more retired generals, conservative or liberal think tank analysts, Firing Line talking heads, or pretty face Diane Sawyers's. Hell, even NPR (Nationialist Public Radio) is tired and outdated. I need to hear from someone who has done the work of investigation and is not afraid to put his critical opinion and analysis out there. From there I can do more research and draw my own conclusions.

    This movies raises critically important questions that need to be examined. I imagine the information he provides--in what, a 90 minute movie?--is only the icing on the cake.

    And if anyone can leave from seeing that movie and not feel the utter horror of the bombing attack that the Bush regime carried out on innocent Iraqi people, then something is seriously wrong. I don't give a damn what Saddahm did, the bombings of that defenseless nation can never compare to what has happened to Americans. I don't like to make those kinds of comparisons when it comes to violence and I never have done so, but I no longer have patience for listening or responding to anybody who tries to defend the U.S. terrorist attack on Iraq. After seeing the movie, I just don't have the patience. The **** was wrong no matter how you slice it up. I knew that before going to see the movie, but seeing those images of the bombing and the attack on the people just did it for me. (Sadly, out of the hand full of reviews that I've read so far, none of them talked about impact of the bombing. Man, are we in denail or what?)

    Anyway, it's gonna be hard for me to respond to the right wing folks on this thread, for like I said I just don't have the patience. I'm just too saddened and hurt by what this country has done.

    But for those who haven't seen the movie, please do. You owe it to your children, grandchildren, or unborn children. Moore and his team bear witness and the least we can do is hear him out.
     
  13. Amani macrumors member

    Amani

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    #13
    FACT: the U.S. bombed, terrorized, and killed lots and lots of people in Iraq, and is continuing to do so. The **** is wrong. Plain and simple.

    I'm going to bed before I explode....
     
  14. LeeTom macrumors 68000

    LeeTom

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    #14
    I just finished seeing this movie, and I think it was excellently done. Perhaps more than any contemporary documentary filmmaker, Moore provokes emotion.

    His use of 9/11 footage was a nice touch. (Anyone that has seen it will know what I am talking about, i.e. the Kill Bill 2 coffin scene)

    For anyone that argues otherwise, Moore does not present this as an unbiased piece. I agree with other postings, that it is nice to see well-researched and documented work infused with critical thought and opinion, without "unbiased" pretentions.

    Also, to anyone that feels compelled to comment on this movie one way or another, without actually having seen it: I urge you to watch it first, then give your comments.

    Lee Tom
     
  15. believo macrumors regular

    believo

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    #15
    Yes, the movie does reflect Moore's fact-based opinions, if that's what you mean by propaganda (not propoganda, by the way.) He did write and direct the movie, that's not the point. Let's move beyond that and explain why you disagree or "left completely discouraged."
     
  16. Metatron macrumors 6502

    Metatron

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    #16
    Screw Kerry!!!

    I would still vote Bush if he was the bloody anti-christ. A socialist Kerry administration isn't just scary, its down right insane. It puts all of you, even the Moore's of this country, in harms way.

    I don't know about you, but I could care less about the rest of the world liking America from the lies Kerry would give them at the cost of my security. Kerry is a Hitler clone. If he had his way, we would not even have the right to vote.

    Know, this is not a I hate Democate rant. I think Edwards would have made a great President even though I would have still voted Bush. And don't you DARE try to reply with the whole he lied about WMD's. Even if (because I believe they are still yet to be found) he did lie, any American who says fighting for the freedom/lives of there fellow man from scum like Saddam was not worth the loss of Americans, which i must add is the lowest death toll of any war by FAR!!!, or going to war, than not only are you not American, you are just as guilty of Crimes Against Humanity as Saddam is. :mad: :mad:
     
  17. mouchoir macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    Dude. He lied about the WMD.

    And you're right – i'm not an american.

    Are you typing from the gulf? Because if you're not, who are you to say what death toll is acceptable?
     
  18. Savage Henry macrumors 65816

    Savage Henry

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    #18
    As opposed to the perfectly sane alternative of voting the Anti-Christ in power :rolleyes:

    Why do you think he's lying but at the same time refuse to consider that Bush is lying, desite Powell admitting that the many sources of 'intelligence' on WMD proved wrong?! :rolleyes:

    I'm puzzled where to begin with that one. So I'm going to assume you must be bored. :rolleyes:

    Folks, the President won't be voted out by citizens merely watching a film. Arguably it could actually lead to strengthen his vote with Republican supporters who haven't voted for years coming out and supporting their man. As long as the film has led to intelligent debate in the democracy then it has been a good thing ... just so long as the debate is intelligent! :rolleyes:

    Man, my eyes are hurting from rolling them so much!
     
  19. CmdrLaForge macrumors 68040

    CmdrLaForge

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    #19
    An interesting aspect on this movie is that it was not planned to show it in the US before it won at the Cannes film festival. After that they decided to show the movie in the USA. Interesting.
     
  20. mouchoir macrumors 6502a

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    #20
    It was always planned to be shown in the US. Moore just decided to premiere it at Cannes.

    '...going to Cannes in the first place let him assume the mantle of an exile, as though the film could not be shown in his native land. In France he could be received as an alternative diplomat... ...Meanwhile, acres of press coverage later, the film's lack of US distribution is presumably a matter of fine-tuning a contract geared to ever-increasing profitability, a matter that will be presumably sorted out in time for Moore's cheerfully announced dream-date opening on 4 July.' B. Ruby Rich, Sight & Sound July 2004
     
  21. frankzeg macrumors member

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    #21
    After having seen the movie last night, some of the most telling aspects were the expressions on the W's face. This guy smirks like a guilty schoolboy as he prepares to make propaganda-infused statements that you can clearly see he has no actual belief in himself. I wish there was a scientific method of accurately interpreting body language and facial expression. Based on my own limited abilities the W consistently telegraphs "LIAR" like no one I've ever met.

    This movie is criticized as propaganda- I would argue that the BS that has been handed out by this administration ranks as some of the most bald faced propaganda EVER. The most intelligent & thoughtful folks in the admin- Rice and Powell- are shown to be accessories to this campaign of deceit. That is perhaps one of the most important lessons- that even smart people can be twisted by the big LIE once it is set in motion. After having read Woodward's latest book I can't see how Powell lives with himself after kowtowing. But then again it is DUTY before HONOR in that code....we civilians should always remember that- and what the consequences of setting HONOR second implies to our society.

    The people interviewed by Moore come across as REAL people who have heart-felt beliefs founded often in personal tragedy. They didn't telegraph BS. You can see the fear in the young soldiers- it is palpable. You can understand them having to get amped up to go into combat- and the toll that what they have to do and witness takes on their souls. And when you hear the wailing of the Iraqi woman who has lost five relations & friends in the past day- when she exhorts God to stop us- I think that a lot of people in the audience came to HER side- even though she was asking God to destroy OUR houses. THEN you realize what an abomination this administration has foisted on US- it is nauseating.

    I challenge every Bush-hugger to attend this movie and come out unchanged. Ignore the inuendo of why the W did this and that and the overtones of elitism and oil-induced greed. Forget ALL that. Just remember what the father of the dead soldier said. He died....and for what....? FOR WHAT? I think that any rational person will come to the same realization that the mother from Flint did- despite the best intentions and a heartfelt patriotism this war NEVER made sense and the dire consequences of this incredibly bad decision are huge. If you are religious- and so many of Bush's supporters say they are- I want you to think about the W's supposed faith-infused decision making during this movie and how the consequences of HIS decisions add up on God's tally sheet.


    The little old ladies quip- it summarized the whole thing: "We were duped". I don't think she intended to be duped again. And as Bush pathetically tries to say himself in the end....fooled twice.....

    I left with the thought that the damage that this administration has done both to the US and to the world is hard to really gage and may take another generation of fence mending to reconcile. I hope we are up to the task.
     
  22. musicpyrite macrumors 68000

    musicpyrite

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    #22
    Even though I'm pretty sure you don't think death is acceptable (I don't) this has been one of the best wars. Far less people are dying/dead. (I mean US personel only)

    And if you think death is unaccptable in war, you have a serous problem.

    If you wanna see what war is like go watch Black Hawk Down, that will give you a pretty good idea what war is like.

    sheesh, some people won't be happy until we fight a war that has no deaths. And guess what? A war without deaths, isn't a war.

    (basically that means we fight our wars with politicians :eek: )
     
  23. musicpyrite macrumors 68000

    musicpyrite

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    #23
    So all Americans (and the world) should side with this woman who's 5 friends/relatives are part of the problem?

    What if those friends/relatives were terrorists?
    What if those friends/relatives were not complying with the soldiers?
    What if the soldiers had reason to suspect that the friends/relativies were going to attempt to harm them?

    You know, men can kill? So can women. So can children.

    From the post avove, I brought up the subject of Black Hawk Down. (if you happened to watch it) do you remember the scene when one of the soldiers got separated from the others? The soldier was about to exit a building when he slipped and fell. On the soldiers left was a father, on the right was the kid of the father.

    The kid saw the soldier and started to fire his AK-47 at him, but like I said, the soldier slipped and fell. Of course the bullets when over the soldiers head and right into his father, killing him.

    Edit: I forgot to mention that the boy was about 10 or 11 years old.

    So the point of that small story is that everybody could be the enemy. Not just men.
     
  24. Savage Henry macrumors 65816

    Savage Henry

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    #24

    And everybody could be our friend. It's just the difference of beliefs and cultures seems to be enough for some people to vindicate those unkown to them.

    An Eye for and Eye doesn't work, because you soon run out of eyes.
     
  25. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #25
    You should try to take long, slow, deep breaths. Maybe sit down and and close your eyes and try to think about something comforting before you blow a blood vessel.

    Now, are you ready to have a discussion or do you just want to go off on some more nonsense?

    I must ask if you are calling Kerry a socialist because the word "liberal" isn't getting the reaction you want? Socialists want to nationalize what are now private industry. Kerry has never advocated such things, but does that fact matter or do you just need a convenient "hot button" word to call him? I see you must think it is not working because not only is he a socialist, he is also a Nazi? Which is it? They are not the same (ask Tony Blair who does belong to a socialist party and supports your man's war.) Oh yes, kindly show me were Kerry advocates taking away the right to vote. Interesting charge. Totally devoid of any truth, but an interesting charge.

    I'm curious where you learned that disputing the validity of a war policy takes away ones US citizenship (or should accomplish this objective - I'm not sure if you are stating it as a fact or a wish?) In any case, if we follow such standards, not only will we be rewriting the Constitution, but we must dig up some old americans like Abe Lincoln and throw them out of the country.

    Perhaps before you go on again, you should not only calm down, but you should check a few facts.

    edit: oh, yes, I need to know are people who did not object to and supported Saddam's crimes while the worst of them were happening subject to your war crimes tribunal? If so, let me know when you indict Bush's father along with Rumsfeld, Cheney and quite a few others. Reagan is dead so a charge does make much sense.
     

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