Yet again my broken heart........

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Backtothemac, Mar 18, 2005.

  1. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #1
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150890,00.html

    Another angel has been taken from her family too early. What has to happen in this country to stop the child molestation and murder.

    Simple. If you are convicted of child molestiation, life, no parole. Period. End of discussion. How can this little girls father continue to breath? I know that I would shrivel up and die without my child. How can someone be so cruel to a 9 year old child. :mad: :mad: :mad:
     
  2. Roger1 macrumors 65816

    Roger1

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  3. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #3
    That is so sad.

    I have to agree with you about sentencing. As to how people continue to live on after such a tragedy...well, somehow they do. Time heals...eventually.

    The family's going through hell right now, though. :(
     
  4. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #4
    Very saddened by the story, and very interested in stopping future events.

    But. Punishing the molesters after they have committed their crimes is not going to stop these events from happening.

    What really needs to happen is prevention, which is better on many levels. Prevention saves both the molested and the molester.

    Those who have been molested often go on to molest themselves. So the answer does not lay simply in locking up the molesters, it should also include helping the molested. Not everyone person who has been molested will molest, but they may act out in other ways which are destructive to themselves and/or others.

    In other cases, molesters, especially underage sexual perpetrators tend to come from seriously messed up families. Most of these kids do get punished, but the mechanism is still left in place. Unless some of the more heinous cultural conditions are solved, they are going to continue producing people whom turn their anger upon society in many different forms.

    If you really care, I think that you would support removing the cause, and rehabilitating the victims and the perpetrators. True, in many cases, the only solution for adult perpetrators is to lock them up, but that alone will not prevent the syndrome.

    Unfortunately, this situation is not as black and white as it seems. If it is treated that way it will not stop. We will gain a small amount of satisfaction from seeing the perpetrators punished but will not stop people of all ages from becoming new victims.

    It is a cycle, and the best result is both stop the cycle and prevent the conditions that initiate these horrible crimes. Simply punishing the guilty will not stop it from happening again. I feel that if you truly care you would want to see it eradicated completely, which will not be a simple task.

    My Psychology Professor was especially active in this area, more than half of her time was dedicated to this issue. If you are really interested in this subject I can refer you to her, she teaches at two JCs locally and devotes a lot of time outside of teaching to deal with this issue.
     
  5. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #5
    Aw christ, not again.... what a freakin scumbag. I'm gonna go punch something.
     
  6. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #6
    Here is my take, and this is going to be considered flamebait, but it isn't. You can help comfort the victim who is molested. You cannot, and I don't care what anyone says, rehabilitate a molester. They continue to work through their victims until the end result is what this poor child has experienced.

    Look how many times this guy has been arrested for this before. He broke into someones home and molested a child while playing with himself. And yet he is walking on the street afterward. Pathetic. The justice system is a joke. Personally, I think if someone is caught on the first offense of molestionation, life no parole. Period. Remove that person from society completely. Do not give them a second chance, and sooner or later, they will all be locked up. If it is a genetic flaw, lock them up. If it that they are sick pervs, lock them up FOREVER.

    I just don't understand why a meaningful law cannot be passed to protect our children. It is a disgusting fact, but these guys kill after many molestations.

    Jessica Lundsford, Samantha Runion, the list is to long to write, and the names rip the very fabric of my soul to pieces.
     
  7. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #7
    As I stated before, I'll wait until they find the body and have some evidence.

    Some people are sick enough to admit doing this for the attention, and some people just get shafted by the police (like the guy in Utah that was killed in jail, or the innocent guy here that was tossed in general lockup by the sheriff and softened up by inmates -- both of which ended up in oopsies, wrong man.)
     
  8. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #8
    You are missing the point. Psychologists agree that adult offenders are most often beyond rehabilitation. Once an offender of this type has reached adulthood they have lost the ability to sympathize. most often. It is very rare that an adult offender is rehabilitated.

    However, victims of molestations will often go on to commit the same crime themselves. Though, molesters are also borne of other circumstances as well. It's a cycle amongst abusers and the abused, and a problem created out of certain situations.

    So, simply punishing the abusers will not stop the abuse from occurring again. It will either occur again due to those abused reenacting the abuse perpetrated upon them, or by new abusers whose familial situations cause them to act out in deviant ways.

    To stop the situation, you have to segregate the abusers from new victims, or punish them however you see fit. Though, it is not always sexual in nature as it is often a form of sadism, ie castrating the abuser will not always remove the desire. Basically, they have to be removed from society.

    You also have to reach the abused and somehow help them with the evil that they have been affected by. They need to be personally absolved of those crimes in order to be free of them so that they are no longer affected by what happened.

    To prevent it completely, you need to remove the conditions that cause people to act out in this way. Believe it or not there are juvenile offenders who perpetrate sexual crimes as a result of the conditions in which they are raised.

    To restate, the solution to the problem is simply more than punishing the perpetrators. It involves punishing the perpetrators, rehabilitating those young enough to be reached and removing the conditions that cause this behavior to appear. Anything else is simply a reaction to actions that will not prevent future actions from occurring.

    If you really want this to end you should learn enough about it to understand the punishing the perpetrators is not enough to prevent it from occurring again.

    It's a social disease borne of many different problems that does not have a quick fix. I know we are used to quick fix solutions, but this by all of what is known currently is not an easily solved problem.

    Really, look at how long the penal system has been around. Crime has not gone away. I don't want to widen the scope of this subject, but punishment alone is not the answer.
     
  9. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #9
    Really, in the vast majority of cases this is completely agreed upon.

    Think of it this way. At some point, someone may have said, let's try to rehabilitate the molesters. That is not a bad idea. Punish them yes, and rehabilitate them, lots of molesters have kids and families who would benefit from them being stable people.

    However, over the years (as I learned in a Psych class I took recently from someone who is currently in the field and a PBS documentary she showed us in class) it has been determined that by the time an offender reaches adulthood, they are in the vast majority of cases beyond saviour. From viewing the tapes myself I think they have lost all of their humanity and really are better off locked up somewhere.

    It's just that the problem does not stop with them. Simply removing and punishing them is not going to solve the problem.

    That lesson having been learned, less money can be spent trying to save them and more spent trying to reach those who they have affected and those whose situations cause deviant behaviour.
     
  10. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #10
    sunbaked, the guy passed a pollygraph, told them where the body is, what more do you need.

    As for the rest of the topic. I understand the need of the academics to try to treat the condition. The reality is that if you kill the molester, or lock them up for life, they cannot hurt anyone again. That fact cannot be disputed.
     
  11. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #11
    Ah, my head asplode. Chicken or the egg? Chicken commits a series of crimes and leaves a bunch of eggs that have the potential to be just as bad once they are hatched.

    Agreed, punish the Chicken, but what of the eggs?

    Unfortunately, killing the Chicken alone will not prevent the eggs from hatching and potentially being the same bad Chickens.

    Or the situation that creates the bad Chicks who will lay the bad eggs.

    You really want to make things better, punish the chickens, fix the eggs and prevent more bad Chickens and more bad eggs from being laid.

    Would pictures help?
     
  12. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #12
    The body, and some physical evidence.

    Otherwise everyone is acting like a lynch mob.

    And there are some people who would gladly walk down and shoot the guy for a confession alone.

    If he confessed and told them where the body is, we'll know soon enough.

    I'd rather people wait to lynch him after the body turns up, instead of before.
     
  13. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #13
    Unfortunately, here it is. :(

     
  14. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #14
    Thomas, exactly.

    Xtremehkr. Lets see if you can understand this without pictures.

    Chicken kills egg. Egg is dead. Chicken should be dead too.

    Chicken sexually assaults egg. Egg needs help. Should get it. Chicken should be shot so that the chicken never hurts another egg.

    sooner or later, all the bad chickens are gone, and all the eggs have gotten help.
     
  15. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #15
    That's not true BTTM, because your description always is reacting to the 'chicken'. You put away every 'chicken', but in order to become a 'chicken' you have to abuse someone, which leaves behind the 'eggs'. I suppose if you catch the 'chicken' after a crime in which the child is killed then the 'egg' isn't laid. But the whole point is to stop these guys before they reach the point where they are both molesting AND killing. First offense, you're gone. But then you need to help the kids who are molested.

    Molesters need to be put away forever, that's not in dispute. But there isn't a sufficient mechanism yet to deal with their aftermath, nor the development of this fantasy through other methods.

    On a side note, I'm wondering now why charges aren't being brought against people in my town for obstruction of justice charges when they didn't report their suspiscion that a crime had taken place when charges are being filed against those who suspected something in this case. I can understand the charges against Couey's sister, she provided material support by buying him a ticket, but the other two only knew that Couey was wanted by the cops and didn't turn him in.

    In my town, a 13 year old kid beat an old man to death with a skateboard in the old guy's trailer. Several people in the park suspected that something had happened, but no one came forward to call the cops. No one was charged.

    If it was me I would have wanted to bring charges against people who kept quiet because at the very least you are providing the killer a chance to cover their tracks, or escape.
     
  16. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #16
    mactastic, I agree. Here is the problem. This guy had been arrest 24 times for various crimes! He actually served time for breaking into a home and molesting a child. And yet he is on the street.

    You actually state my point better than I. Lock them up forever on the first offense. Do not give a second chance. EVER.
     
  17. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #17
    something wrong there. were they all in FL? anyone know enough about FL law to know if he legally _should_ have been out in the first place?

    i.e. maybe it's that old thing where the legislation is in place but the enforcement is lacking.
     
  18. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #18
    Well my dad was a cop there for 20 years, and my best friend is a D.A. there. The problem is the parole system. This guy has gone through the system suffled because for some reason they would rather keep a guy in jail that has sold pot than a convicted child molester.

    Pathetic.
     
  19. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #19
    The face of an angel.
     

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  20. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #20
    The face of satan himself.

    Look at this piece. Can you imagine the horror that he inflicted on her, on his previous victims in his 24 crimes?

    Can you imagine her calling for her dad for help. There is no justice cruel enough that could befall this man.

    Perhaps being put in general population in the state pen would suffice. I doubt he would make it one day.
     

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  21. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #21
    so where to best direct our energies? into revenge for jessica, or towards fixing a broken penal system?
     
  22. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #22
    Zim, refer to my first post in this thread. Change the law so that 1st offense is life no parole. That solves the problem.
     
  23. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #23
    it may solve this particular problem, but that was the solution for drug offenders: mandatory sentencing. and _that's_ the root enabling cause of the story here.

    i think the thing to do is undo the mandatory sentencing laws and let judges set sentences. perhaps their discretion applied to particular circumstances, rather than broad legislation, is the solution.

    after all, prison space is a resource, and it needs to be allocated properly.
     
  24. Backtothemac thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #24
    I don't have a problem with that as long as that judge is accountable.
     
  25. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #25
    Much as I despise what happened to Jessica, Xtremehkr has some good points. While this guy apparently should be put away for good, simply doing that to all molesters will not, as he says, break the chain, since there's a good chance that at least some of the victims (who are not as unfortunate as Jessica) will go on to become molesters themselves. These people need lots of counseling to try to keep them from becoming what Couey has become.

    I'm not arguing against putting this kind of person away, simply agreeing with Xtremehkr that that is not the whole solution.
     

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