Yet another "success" story...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by professor, May 19, 2004.

  1. professor macrumors newbie

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    #1
    U.S. Says Killed 40 in Raid on Iraq Foreign Fighters

    By Luke Baker and Alastair Macdonald

    BAGHDAD (Reuters) - The U.S. military said it killed around 40 people in an attack on suspected foreign fighters in Iraq near the Syrian border on Wednesday, but disputed reports the victims were members of a wedding party.

    The attack occurred on a day when a U.S. soldier was sentenced to one year in jail for abusing Iraqi prisoners and President Bush prepared to deliver a keynote speech next week to stem slipping support at home and abroad over Iraq.

    "We conducted an operation...against suspected foreign fighters in a safe house. We took ground fire and we returned fire," said Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, top U.S. military spokesman in Iraq.

    Kimmitt said the attack 15 miles from the Syrian border had been carried out within the military's rules of engagement and that Syrian passports, satellite communications equipment and a large amount of money had been found afterwards.

    Dubai-based Al Arabiya television quoted witnesses as saying U.S. warplanes had bombarded the village of Makr al-Deeb near the Syrian border while families were attending a wedding party, killing 41 people.

    Arabiya said casualties included women and children and showed pictures of several shrouded bodies lined up on a dirt road. Men were shown digging graves and lowering bodies, one of a child, into the pits while relatives wept.

    "The U.S. planes dropped more than 100 bombs on us," an unidentified man, who said he was from the village, told the television station.

    "They hit two homes where the wedding was being held and then they leveled the whole village. No bullets were fired by us, nothing was happening," he said.

    FOREIGN FIGHTERS

    The United States, battling to stamp out guerrilla attacks in Iraq, says foreign fighters enter the country from Syria.

    Arabiya's report was screened hours after Washington allowed the world's media to witness the first court martial of soldiers accused in a scandal that erupted when pictures were published of naked Iraqi prisoners being abused and sexually humiliated. **

    more at:
    http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle....WS2AZOCRBAELCFFA?type=topNews&storyID=5197440
     
  2. poopyhead macrumors 6502a

    poopyhead

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    #2
    I'm sure we were just stopping an insurgent breeding/training program after all Iraqis beget Iraqis and we can't have that
    as far as the child deaths
    we were just going forward with a preemptive attack
    this way we are able to stifle the insurgents before they are able to develop a good throwing arm
    after all a live Iraqi child with arms may someday develop into a stone thrower or worse yet a knife wielder (god help us, then any american in a 3 foot radius is likely to be killed)

    finally the bush administration has done something right they have stopped potential terrorists before they were able to develop into cells (villages)
     
  3. professor thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #3
    I get your point. But there must be a way to do this more thoroughly, and for good? :rolleyes:
     
  4. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #4
    All this is very amusing, but seriously for a moment: the Iraqis do not deserve this. Life under Saddam Hussein must have been rough enough. Now they have arbitrary massacres by people who can't even see their targets (I hope, or it's even worse), arbitrary detentions by the thousand, arbitrary torture, mistreatment, economic meltdown, and 150,000 infidels crashing around their ancient country which was civilized five thousand years ago, proclaiming that they are better off now.

    As for the excuses of the military, I don't expect there is any border village in the middle east where you would not find a "significant number of weapons", a stash of cash in various local currencies, and a number of passports belonging to people on both sides of the border. Tribal societies do not, as a rule, pay any attention to national boundaries arbitrarily decided by national governments. It's high time that we all abandoned this pretence that we all know how to run other peoples' countries.
     
  5. poopyhead macrumors 6502a

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    #5
    I agree completely
    we are bombing peoples villages and lives away for no reason and with no apology (not as though that would make anything better)
    This is not the first wedding party we (the US) have bombed (we got a few in Afghanistan) nor will it be the last
    and unfortunately much of the media sees no reason to cover it
    although when a wedding hall collapses in Israel due to shoddy construction it is on the nightly news. (I am not saying that we didn't hear about it because of a favoritism towards Israel, it was just the only remotely similar event I could remember.)
    Atrocities are atrocities and when caused by american soldiers fighting a war in the name (unfortunately) of american citizens, then we the citizenry have a right and duty to know, we are all in some way tacitly responsible for this horror.

    If we only had a poll tax I would know of proper recourse.
     
  6. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #6
    In fact, even if it was a "safe house" - obviously not "safe" enough - is it reasonable to level it from the air and kill 40 or more people on a hunch? This is a nasty, brutal war waged by a nasty, brutal military.
     
  7. poopyhead macrumors 6502a

    poopyhead

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    #7
    militaries
     
  8. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #8
    I was using the word in a collective, inclusive sense! :rolleyes:

    However, it must be noted that the US military is especially prone to this kind of "stand-off killing".
     
  9. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #9
    I'm waiting for more info before I believe one side or the other. On the one hand, we're dealing with people who would have no compunction against using civilian houses along with women and children as a cover for insurgent actions. On the other hand, the US has shot up a wedding party before by accident, so we know the potential is there. Give it a few days to let the dust settle and figure out what happened before we pass judgement.
     
  10. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

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    #10
    I agree, we're just dealing with competing claims right now, but I have to wonder about the prospect of ever learning the full truth about incidents like this. Is the press dashing to the Syrian border to report on it? Unlikely. For the most part, the media's been maintaining a low profile in Iraq and only going where they can be protected by the military. We hear complaints about the Arabic news networks running too much footage of dead and maimed Iraqis in places like Falouja, but in fact we're not seeing any of this on our TVs because Western press coverage is effectively being managed by the military. On account of that, I seriously doubt that we'll ever know what really happened.
     
  11. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #11
    True. However, the information we do have, even from the military, leads me to suspect that this will happen again and again: they "took some ground fire" (Meaning what? They heard a shot? Was anyone hurt?) and responded, not by sending troops over to have a look, but by calling in an AC130 to level "a suspected safe house" (never mind that they destroyed the entire village) at 3 am. Why did they suspect it was a safe house? Because they heard a shot? Or because they were told that by some local rival (cf. Afghanistan)? It's like Waco without the kid gloves. If the "war is over" the US had better learn the difference between war-fighting and policing, because they seem a little confused at the moment.
     
  12. Ugg macrumors 68000

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    #12
    Here is the most detailed story I've seen yet. It sure seems like it was a wedding to me. One of the most famous musicians in western Iraq was there and was killed. The millions of Iraqi and Syrian Dinars that sly was up in arms about turns out to be worth about $800 and the Sat Radio was most likely a satellite phone. Hardly out of place in a desolate spot like this. Which it turns out, was the villa of a large extended family. I've hesitated to weigh in until now but there is no doubt in my mind that it was a real wedding, a double one at that and the brutality on the part of the Americans was phenomenal. To mow down women and children and then claim that because there were more than 20 males of military age, as a sufficient reason is callous beyond belief.

    Well sly, what does the boor/rush spin machine have to say?
     
  13. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #13
    Oh he already posted what Boortz has told him to think about it. The gist is that the 'yellow left wing journalists' of the 'mass media' are once again conspiring to conceal the truth that this was a terrorist encampment. Also that we should listen to the Pentagon if we want the truth of the matter. Apparently he and Boortz were in Iraq the other night and know firsthand what happened long before the rest of the world has figured it out.
     
  14. skunk macrumors G4

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    #14
    Jesus H Christ! I expect.
    This whole story is sick-making. What is WRONG with these guys? THIS IS A FECKING WAR-CRIME! The whole world is depending on you in November!
    :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

    What SHOULD happen is that all units involved should be confined to barracks immediately, the commanders should be shot, yes, SHOT, and Bush and Rumsfeld and Sanchez and Bremer should personally visit the site before being impeached for bringing the name of the US (and the UK) into total disrepute. This has gone far enough. I'm normally a peaceable sort of guy, but right now I'd happily shoot the lot of them.
     
  15. amnesiac1984 macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    Amen to that!
     
  16. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #16
    Well, this one appears to have been successfully swept under the carpet. Either it was a monumental blunder, wiping out a wedding party, or it was a gross over-reaction to a real target. Demolishing a "suspected" safe house at 3am from the air without checking to see if anyone is inside, is a cowardly - yes, cowardly - way to deal with the problem. I want to hear more about this. :mad:
     

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