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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Xtremehkr, Dec 17, 2004.
Are we in the business of political assasinations now?
Umm... you think the US tried to help knock off the more pro-Western candidate?
We've spend 65 million there in the past two years, I posted something else about this earlier.
Considering the article states that TCDD is produced (inadvertently) by manufacturing processes involving chlorine, it seems that it would not be difficult to procure. The fact that there is no commercial development of TCDD does not mean that it is not being produced for private (nefarious) uses by any number of countries/organizations. I do not see a US connection, unless you want to go into convoluted conspiracy theory.
The US poisoned Yushchenko, though purposely not enough to kill him. This was done to purposely encourage speculation that his opposition, Yanukovych, poisoned him, since he obviously had motive. This, in turn, moved public opinion away from Yanukovch and towards Yushchenko, in a closely divided electorate and added to the public's resolve in the wake of a close and contested Election.
The above could be possible, I suppose. Personally, I am an Occam's razor kinda guy.
Isn't it more likely that the dioxins were manufactured for this purpose or they came from one of the many missing Soviet stockpiles of chemical weapons?
What am I saying? The US is behind everything bad in the world. I bet Karl Rove was involved, too.
But if it were John Kerry who was poisoned, it would have been said to be self-inflicted in order to win sympathy.
Right, and that spent despite the pissing and moaning many people in America did when foreign nationals tried to influence our elections. (How dare they!) But I believe we spent that money on the pro-Western candidate rather than the pro-Moscow one. I know I'm no expert on Russian affairs, but my understanding is that Yushchenko's election would have been a blow to Russian projection of power. It would have reduced Russia's influence in that region. All Good Things from a neo-con US presidential advisor's perspective. I don't think if we wanted someone dead in this election that it would have been Yuschenko.
I'd love to suspect conspiracy, but I doubt we're behind it. This was just done so obviously and so badly. Don't make the rest of us nuts look bad, there are plenty of horrible or stupid things this administration has done. You don't even need to look that hard. Somehow, I don't think poisoning one of our allies is one of those thing.
I'm with you. We had NO incentive to do this and Yanukovich had a lot.
Two bits of misinformation so far, yes, this toxin is a by product, but as a byproduct it is not pure and no so concentrated.
Incentive? A weak Russia is incentive enough or there wouldn't have been $65 million spent there. $65 million was spent on nothing? that does not suggest to you incentive?
Just throwing an idea out there. This administration has been lax on torture. Rumsfeld was around when the US supplied Iraq with chemical weapons, which shows we had no problems with them being used to support our cause, when it is handy. It also came in handy 10 years later when we suddenly passed judgement on Saddam having WMDs. Would it really surprise you?
I am confused... If we wanted a weaker Russia and to prempt Putin's consolidation of power in that area... which I am sure we do... why would we poison Viktor Yushchenko the candidate that was aligned more western, not Moscow. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying but a weaker Russia would have been inventive to poision the other guy. Unless you are going with Blackfox's conspiracy theory.
Yes. It would not be out of line with a lot of things that are done out of a willingness to appear to be doing something. Clear Skies, No Child Left Behind etc.
You're jumping way to far out there on too little information. The point is not that the Bush administration couldn't have done this, but rather who are the likely suspects. The men who had dinner with Viktor Yushchenko right before the poison took effect should top everyone's list - not folks in the CIA or US military. Did the head officials of the Ukrainian secret service have US aid? Much more likely the had the aid of their Russian counterparts, if they needed any aid at all. Not everything is caused by the machinations of the US government. I'm with blackfox, a little use of Occam's Razor is in order.
I wasn't being entirely serious.
This article offers a lot more insight and towards the end seems to suggest that it was the work of organized criminals.
you got me! Very good article, btw.
Yep, you fooled me too. I thought you were seriously insinuating that there was reason to believe agents of the US government had a hand in Yuschenko's poisoning.
Another Side to the Story?
if this article is accurate, then i submit that, in college, i was the target of soviet assassins many times.
Only problem with the article, skunk, is that it doesn't account for the level of dioxin found (1,000 times normal per his doctors in Vienna.) He maybe a raging alcoholic, with massive binge drinking problems, but the vodka didn't cause the dioxin levels.
But neither do the dioxin levels, high as they are, account for the very fast onset of his skin problems. Look it up anywhere, the prognosis for this reaction is "medium to long term", not within three weeks. There's something not quite right here. Maybe the Russians have a different compound so far unidentified: after all, we still have no idea what they used at that Moscow theatre siege.
The internet just doesn't do sarcasm well sometimes.
That's what a is for. I also like :sarcasm: :sarcasm: I think the problem is, you didn't realize there are people out there who really think that.
The self inflicted thing passed through my mind, but I don't think he needed it. He was pretty popular already, and didn't really need the sympathy vote. It actually may have hurt him just as politically during the race. Though it does seem to be helping him now.
Except for, you know, making him look hideous and almost killing him.