“Nothing stops a bullet like a job...”

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by LizKat, Jan 4, 2015.

  1. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #1
    Chicago gave hundreds of high-risk kids a summer job. Violent crime arrests plummeted.

    Washington Post (Wonkblog) link

    The blog post concluded with a quote from the research on the jobs program that was done by the University of Chicago Crime Lab and recently published in the journal Science:

    The WaPo blog does point out that the study doesn’t nail down the “why” of the program’s resulting drop in violent crime (and also notes that some of the money made at the jobs may have gone for drug buys, since drug busts for the treatment group were a bit higher than for the control group).

    But for my money, even if summer job money ends up as cash for drug buys for a few kids, that can be fixed too: via professional substance abuse education and prevention efforts. Now more school districts are participating, even while dealing with budget cuts. They see the face of opiates addiction coming back on the heels of closer restriction of prescription painkillers, and they don’t like the prospects for heroin-addicted children any better than they liked what Mom’s oxycontin offered.

    Meanwhile in other news I saw that Myanmar has jacked up its opium crops. Supply, meet demand... but I hope more summer job programs will be launched in 2015. Having a summer job can shift a kid’s mental gears, open his eyes, show options past learning how not to get busted dealing or buying drugs. Doesn’t matter if it’s folding paper napkins in a banquet hall or shoveling compost in a community garden. It beats the soul-killing experience of 8 week of nothing to do, no money to do it with and too much time to ponder illicit options, ones that can choke off further education and fetch a one-way ride into the industrial-prison system via forays into violent crime. Preventing crime is admirable. Helping a kid avoid a lifestyle that leads directly to prison is priceless.
     
  2. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    So if you give youth low paying jobs, they will avoid the glamorous life of crime. But if you give them educations so they can achieve a life of success and wealth, they opt for crime.

    Who's to blame for that attitude?
     
  3. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    Eh, it's cool. Educated people mostly become white collar criminals, and only hurt people financially. The most they can expect is a couple of years in a minimum security prison, where they'll learn to play tennis, meet some new friends, get out, then push for politicians who want to deregulate Wall Street so they can do it all over again without getting caught.

    Also, where the hell did anyone say anything about low paying jobs vs. education?
     
  4. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    Where did you derive the concept of that attitude? The two don't really overlap here. If you read the article these were summer jobs, meaning that the kids wouldn't be in school. Some districts may offer summer courses, but they're likely to be more limited and more rushed. This seems like a way of keeping high risk kids somewhat occupied.

    Damn you. You beat me to that one.
     
  5. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    I got a new keyboard. It's a pro model that adds about 60 WPM to my typing speed.

    You wanna compete? YOU GOTTA GEAR UP, BRAH!
     
  6. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    It's so easy to be cynical instead of informed.

    Sorry, did I violate forum rules by introducing an element that wasn't in the original article?

    Thinking outside the box am I, yes. /yoda

    We know that when given educations, urban kids will choose to commit crimes. But, when given low paying jobs over the summer, over the next 16 months, they'll commit far fewer crimes.

    It seems that school as it is taught now, is not teaching kids properly, since the merest motivation provided by a small paycheck is enough to keep them from being criminals.

    ----------

    Uh oh! If you read the article, you'll see that the study was conducted over a period of 16 months. So it covers the summer and school terms.
     
  7. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    Clarify this. When give an education, or given the choice of having an education? Either way, you're gonna need to back up this assertion with some stats.
     
  8. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    It's self evident that those kids are being given summer jobs while school is out. Hence they're enrolled in the school system and being given educations. Or are you claiming that urban kids are all dropouts (racism warning!)?
     
  9. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    What dark crevice did you pull that from?

    Source please.
     
  10. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    Oh dear. Did you not read the article? When given summer jobs, urban kids commit 43% fewer crimes than the control group.
     
  11. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    It's self evident that giving them something to do during the down months while they're off from school occupies them, and lowers violent crime rates. But it says absolutely nothing about urban kids and education as a generality.

    Also, I love the way you introduce drama into the conversation, and try to cast doubt on me by putting words in my mouth in order to avoid proving your assertion. If you were a little more subtle about it, I would've had to go on the defensive, and it might've worked out for you.
     
  12. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Non sequitor.

    Please fill in the chasm between these two posts.
     
  13. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    But crime is depicted at being glamorous and profitable, so why does a low paying job interest them?

    Of course it say something about education in general. I'm using the urban kids as an example because the distinction is so obvious in this study.

    So what should schools be doing differently? How about emphasizing the benefits of capitalism if they stay in school and study hard? Or how about making kids attend classes that teach morality and integrity with emphasis on how those topics will help them attain success in life?

    If you'd gone on the defensive, I'd have been disappointed in you. How does pointing out the two choices indicated by your question translate into putting words in your mouth?

    ----------

    If urban kids are committing 43% fewer crimes than the control group. Both sets of urban kids are committing crimes, and would have done more lawbreaking if not for summer jobs.

    Chasm filled.
     
  14. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    Where are you getting any of this? The only thing the article states is that when school's out, having programs that shuffle kids into entry level jobs (thus potentially teaching them the benefits of capitalism and hard work in a direct manner) tends to lower crime rates in the area. It's very simply "giving listless kids something to do when they have nothing else to do decreases crime". It says nothing about education, either directly or as an aside, and only barely brushes against culture.

    Because I never indicated in any way whatsoever that urban kids are dropouts. Those are words you put in my mouth, and are now trying to beat me over the head with them.
     
  15. zin macrumors 6502

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    Nothing like teaching by injecting your economic ideology into the minds of students.

    How about emphasizing the benefits of hard work and intellect? "Capitalism" doesn't even have to come into it. If you teach them to work hard and study hard, they can make their own minds up on political and economic matters.
     
  16. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    I'm using the results from the study to make an argument about education and how it's failing our kids. I've explained that at least three times, so I may be overestimating my ability to make the point.

    Actually, I had asked you a question, which is not an assertion. So no need for drama at your end.
     
  17. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    But it doesn't say anything about what kids do during school, so anything you get out of it would be based upon incomplete data.

    How often do you beat your wife, Duck?
     
  18. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    This is logically unsound.

    I'd explain it to you, but instead, I'll just use the same rationale that you've provided ... it's self evident.
     
  19. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    If that economic ideology is motivating them to live a lawful life, why not help them be more successful by explaining the mechanics of capitalism?

    I think they want to earn money. Lots of money, and more power to them! So teach them how to do so while at the same time making sure they learn about integrity and morality.

    The point I'm making is that the education system is failing to teach these kids how to be successful in life in the way they value.

    ----------

    No really, explain it. Because the only way it's not logically sound is if you're misunderstanding it.
     
  20. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Why should I give you an ounce more than you yourself are willing to give?
     
  21. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    Of course it doesn't say, we're hypothesizing based on the facts at hand.

    Never.

    (It's "when did you stop beating your wife?")

    ----------

    Sure. Never mind.
     
  22. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Agreed. You were never going to source your assertion in the first place.

    What a waste of time.
     
  23. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    Getting up in the morning everyday and punching a clock is mentally and physically tiring.

    Hard to snatch purses and be a douche thug playing the knockout game when you pass out at 2200 and wake at 0730.
     
  24. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    No more tiring than attending school.

    But that's not counting the adrenaline rush.
     
  25. webbuzz macrumors 65816

    webbuzz

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    The Summer Jobs Program is an excellent initiative by the city and great opportunity for the kids.

    However...

    The Truth About Chicago’s Crime Rates: Part 2


    Sure, the kids involved in the program were less prone to commit a crime, violent, or otherwise.

    When it comes to CPD CompStat data, I lose faith.
     

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