“You know, I'm, like, a smart person." Donald J Trump

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MacNut, Dec 11, 2016.

  1. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #1
    So Trump's response to ignoring daily intelligence briefings.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/trump-briefings-232479
     
  2. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #2
    What a ****ing idiot.

    If any terror attack happens on his watch, these words will come back to haunt him.
     
  3. edk99 macrumors 6502a

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  4. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #4
    This is not going to end well.

    It's all very well to delegate responsibility to subordinates. But at the end of the day, the President is - in the immortal words of George W. Bush - the "decider in Chief." And if Mattis, Flynn, or Pence and Kelly don't agree on something, they are going to either come to Trump to make the decision, or they are going to start acting on their own authority. And then they are going to start arguing about who is in charge. And while they are arguing, their subordinates at Defense, at the CIA, at the State Department are going to lose precious hours waiting for a decision to come down. Or they are going to start wondering if the orders and instructions they just got are legitimate Presidential directives. Or something else entirely.

    There is a reason we don't have "Co-Presidents" in the United States.

    If Trump didn't want to put in the time, energy, and effort required for the Presidency - he had no business running for office.
     
  5. MacNut thread starter macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #5
    I have heard this rumor making the rounds through "teh tubes" today. Got a back up for that claim.
     
  6. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #6
    There is a difference between not taking action on an agency's or analyst's specific recommendation - and "ignoring" them.

    To cite one well-known example: When the CIA believed it had located Osama bin Laden in Pakistan, there was a split between the members of Obama's staff about what to do: VP Joe Biden and Defense Secretary Gates urged caution. Secretary of State Clinton, Joint Chiefs Chairman Mike Mullen and Counterterrorism Advisor Brennan all urged that the operation should go ahead.

    Obama didn't "ignore" the information in his Intelligence Briefings. He didn't "ignore" the information he was getting from State; from the CIA; or from the DoD. He listened very carefully.

    Because he knew, and understood, that at the end of the day two things were going to happen: US servicepeople were going to go on a very dangerous mission. That if anything went wrong it could cause very serious repercussions for the United States. He also understood that by not acting the US would lose a perhaps unique opportunity to take out bin Laden.

    Obama understood the value of the Intelligence Briefings. He understood that they often are going to contain "repetitive" information (ISIS is going to be a problem next week, and the week after that. We are going to be concerned about Chinese moves in the South China Sea next month, and six months from now.) But you can't just blow the briefings off. Because the day is going to come when one of those issues is going to turn into a crisis. And you haven't got time to review six months or a year of briefings before making a decision.

    Trump's blowing off the Intelligence Briefings is the equivalent of skipping a semester's worth of classes and homework, and then expecting that a night of cramming is going to get you an A on the final.

    Life doesn't work like that in college. God only knows it doesn't work like that in the Oval Office.
     
  7. Scepticalscribe, Dec 11, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #7
    There is a considerable - and significant - difference between not attending these briefings, - and deciding not to act upon the advice that has been given to you.

    Indeed, I am surprised that you appear to be unable to distinguish between choosing not to attend the briefings your own specialists and experts give you, (and, thus not being adequately informed), and choosing not to act upon, or take the advice, tendered at such briefings.

    You do have to listen to your advisors, and experts, - so that you are adequately informed before you arrive at, or take a decision; nevertheless, you are not compelled to take their advice, although it is usually considered advisable to think about doing so.

    However, the President has the final say, - the final responsibility, and the final decision: That is what executive authority is all about; but he (or she) needs to be briefed on all options, backgrounds, contexts, nuances, problems, situations, alternatives, and issues before being in a position to be able to make an informed choice, or take an informed decision.

    Are you so uninformed that you do not realise how such things - these things - actually work in practice?

    Two - actually three - things will arise from this:

    The first is the President will be catastrophically uninformed, and this, of course, will have consequences as to how his administration responds to crises, or a crisis. And much of government activity ends up being about framing a response to the unexpected, the unwelcome, and the unwanted. For, as president, the buck - and responsibility - does - ultimately - stop with him.

    Actually, it strikes me that the man is intellectually lazy, and has no real interest in remedying the deficiencies in his knowledge, lacking as he does, intellectual curiosity, or an interest in the boring bureaucratic stuff of day to day governance.

    Secondly, delegating is not the answer on such matters, as it makes your selected subordinates unaccountable gatekeepers not only on key matters such as who gets to have access to you, but also - even more importantly - they become gatekeepers on what you are told, and on what information gets passed on to you.

    A practical problem that arises from this sort of situation is that of subordinates who will tell a narcissistic authoritarian what he wants to hear, not what he needs to know.

    For a President to be kept out of the loop - even if this is his (or her) own choice is not unprecedented, but it is most unusual in the modern age.

    Thirdly, this - over time - will lead to those tasked with briefing him to need to cover their own posteriors when things get tough, - as they inevitably will - so that they cannot be hung out to dry on the charge that they failed to 'brief their principal'.
     
  8. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #8
    Ah, thank goodness we elected someone with stamina.
     
  9. steve knight macrumors 68020

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    #9
    I am sure trump gets his reports directly from the ether. all of it is pumped directly into his skull he does not need any silly advice from mere morals.
     
  10. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #10
    Please source that Obama ignored his daily briefings.

    Bless you.
     
  11. zin macrumors 6502

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    #11
    President Obama had an attendance rate to daily briefs of less than 45% during his first term[1].

    Not that I'm criticising him for it. Apparently he preferred to get his briefs through secondary sources throughout his administration, similar to the way Trump is being attacked for today.
     
  12. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #12
    I'm glad he told us. I feel much better now. I wonder if it's also this easy for him to make us forget all of his actions over the last 18 months or so, and oops, what's happening practically daily? :rolleyes:
     
  13. citizenzen, Dec 11, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #13
    What I had read just in the last day or so was that he preferred reading a 5-10 page written report rather than receiving it orally.

    When do you think was the last time trump read 5-10 pages of anything?
    --- Post Merged, Dec 11, 2016 ---
    Zin, can you tell us any information that might be pertinent regarding the source you just cited?

    Anything about a certain someone who co-founded it?
     
  14. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #14
    @zin: There are reasons you do not attend such briefings - nobody will have a 100% - or close to - record of attendance.

    These reasons include: You are out of the country; you are in another part of the country; you are on sick leave; you are on actual leave.

    However, if the statistics quoted about Mr Trump's attendance record at his briefings are correct - and nobody has queried their veracity - then his attendance is well below even the cited 45% of Mr Obama's first term.

    It is closer to 16% - and this is unacceptable. It is especially unacceptable at this stage of the cycle when the responsibility of governing has yet to settle on his (patently unsuitable) shoulders.

    This period - when responsibility is not yet his - is the time when he should be taking full advantage of the opportunities to be briefed and to learn as much as possible about what the job entails.
     
  15. appleisking macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    I never understand the argument that Obama didn't do it, therefore Trump doesn't have to either. Didn't you elect Trump in the hopes that he would be better than Obama?
     
  16. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #16
    It's a bogus claim anyway.

    Here is a factcheck on the issue: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...ebee9c66e190_blog.html?utm_term=.97840e978bdf

    I'm sure @zin will rail against a Washington Post factcheck, and prefer material from an organization co-founded by Steve Bannon. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Abazigal macrumors 604

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    #17
    Sounds like pretty good time management if you ask me.
     
  18. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #18
    Gives trump more time to devote to the Apprentice.
     
  19. zin macrumors 6502

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    #19
    The material is nothing more than numbers added up from White House calendars. My post was absolutely correct and I really do not care for the secondary source if the numbers are correct. I had no idea it was co-founded by Steve Bannon. I found it via a Google Search.

    If the White House says Obama reads his briefing every day but does not choose to attend them because that's the way he prefers it, then great, I was not aware of this comment from the White House. Perhaps the way Trump has chosen to do it will also work out. It is important to note that what he said is that if 'anything changes', he did instruct his officials to contact him immediately. I'll reserve judgement until he assumes office, when we will know if his methods reflect well or poorly on his administration.
     
  20. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #20
    Well ... now you know.

    And the second source explains why the numbers are specious and the conclusion isn't accurate.
     
  21. Jess13, Dec 11, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016

    Jess13 Suspended

    Jess13

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    #21
    Trump is at war with the deceitful “Deep State,” Trump is what Obama promised to be: real change.


    http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2016/09/de...veals-why-he-backs-donald-trump-over-hillary/

    “I only have one choice really. And we're already trying to influence that, we know people who know him, we're trying to feed him with information to make sure he doesn't buy into all of this bamboozling gobbledygook that the intelligence community throws at a President when they first come in. You know they bamboozle them into thinking they really know something. They're really idiots, I know them all anyway. I know them personally - I know [Director of National Intelligence James] Clapper, I know [General Keith] Alexander, I know [Former NSA Director] Mike McConnell, I know all these people.”​


    “We’ll do it right this time.”

    mZlwUIM.png
     
  22. LizKat macrumors 68040

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    #22
    Trump was elected because he wasn't Clinton or because it was really exciting to tell the establishment to stick it. And, some just held their nose on assorted Trump-related issues and voted for the Republican nominee on a strictly ideological (social and/or fiscal policy) basis.

    On the briefings: I regard this brouhaha as another "watch the birdie" moment. A distraction, possibly as a sop to those who want to see things "shaken up" in Washington. I certainly agree it's a terrible idea to let someone else be briefed on intel and then pass along what they feel they should let through. That may work for political proposals. Intelligence briefings are not that.

    The intelligence services must (and will want) to serve the new President however they can, so I presume they'll try to find some way that presents to him personally what he must know every day, even if it's just an outline on a single sheet of paper with indicators of special significance where that's the case.

    It's pretty clear that Mike Pence will be requesting a full briefing every day. The president behind the president. We only thought we saw that sometimes with Cheney and Bush: this time Trump has practically signed off on it as par for the course. And yet it's Trump who'll lead the government when he feels like it. Like in the middle of the night from his godblasted Twitter account.

    If you ask me the Republicans are really playing a dangerous game with this guy, and have been since they let his nomination go forward. Donald Trump is a complete black box on almost everything, and where that's not the case, what we do know is even more alarming.
     
  23. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #23
    Trump is acting like the presidency is just another resort or golf course, just slap the Trump name on it, and sit back and bask in the greatness while everybody else does the real work.

    Enjoy, America.
     
  24. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

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    #24
    Even better -- he should just spend 100% of his time in Trump Tower watching TV, and let somebody else play President. Perfect time management that way!
     
  25. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #25
    "I don't have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day for the next eight years. "

    Unlike his supporters I guess.
     

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