15" MBP to be discontinued in November

ascender

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Dec 8, 2005
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We've all read the rumors of the upcoming 16" MacBook Pro, but I haven't heard even one rumor of a 14" Apple laptop.
I think when the original 16" rumours started, based on a screen-part leak (?), a 14" was mentioned, but its definitely gone incredibly quiet since while all the "concrete" rumours have been about the 16" only.
 
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infinitejest

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May 1, 2016
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I think when the original 16" rumours started, based on a screen-part leak (?), a 14" was mentioned, but its definitely gone incredibly quiet since while all the "concrete" rumours have been about the 16" only.
Probably because they launch the 16 inch model first and wait a few months before they put a 14 inch screen in the 13 inch model. Kinda like when they started putting retina screens in the 15 inch models first.
 

ascender

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Dec 8, 2005
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It just makes sense right? If they have a way to get a bigger screen into a similar or smaller footprint, it will flow down to the 14" too.

But a bit of me also thinks, if they're redesigning the MBP, why wouldn't the 14" launch at the same time as the 16"? Is that why we didn't hear anything about it at WWDC and we just got spec bumps instead?

They've just got their laptop lineup back to a place where it all makes sense, so I'd have thought they wouldn't want to confuse things again by having a totally different MBP available? Unless it really is this flagship, ultra-premium product?

Interesting to see what happens though.
 

leman

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Oct 14, 2008
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What fragmentation? Currently there's a 13" Air, a 13" MacBook Pro & 15" MacBook Pro.
There are two MacBook Pro 13", with different CPU performance classes and internal components (which is even more confusing). But its certainly better than few months ago when we had the MacBook, the MacBook Pro without Touch Bar and two models with Touch Bar. Let's just hope that we won't have the 16" which is identical to 15" but more expensive on top of it.
 
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ascender

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Dec 8, 2005
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There are two MacBook Pro 13", with different CPU performance classes and internal components (which is even more confusing). But its certainly better than few months ago when we had the MacBook, the MacBook Pro without Touch Bar and two models with Touch Bar. Let's just hope that we won't have the 16" which is identical to 15" but more expensive on top of it.
I think you're over-thinking the details compared to your average Mac buyer. IMO the laptop lineup hasn't been this simple and consistent in years.

You now have the MacBook Air as the default laptop for most people. Need more performance? You go to the MBP which now all look the same with the TouchBar. Need more performance, bigger screen size? They have models for those too.

Previously, even the default laptop wasn't clear with the Macbook, Retina Air, Non-Retina Air and the Macbook "escape".

That's why I'm skeptical its just going to be a standalone new 16" model in addition to the current lineup.
 
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infinitejest

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May 1, 2016
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Orange County, CA
It just makes sense right? If they have a way to get a bigger screen into a similar or smaller footprint, it will flow down to the 14" too.

But a bit of me also thinks, if they're redesigning the MBP, why wouldn't the 14" launch at the same time as the 16"? Is that why we didn't hear anything about it at WWDC and we just got spec bumps instead?

They've just got their laptop lineup back to a place where it all makes sense, so I'd have thought they wouldn't want to confuse things again by having a totally different MBP available? Unless it really is this flagship, ultra-premium product?

Interesting to see what happens though.
Yeah, I think it's the first step of the new bezel-less redesign. Idk why they would start with only launching the 15 inch models, but they've it before. Maybe to sell the more expensive machines to people who would rather buy the cheaper 13 inch model if they were available too - I don't know...
A standalone MacBook Pro "Pro" with better specs doesn't make much sense to me. After all, that's why we have a MacBook Air. A MacBook Pro should always be the machine with the spec they have available.
 
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Steve121178

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Apr 13, 2010
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There are two MacBook Pro 13", with different CPU performance classes and internal components (which is even more confusing). But its certainly better than few months ago when we had the MacBook, the MacBook Pro without Touch Bar and two models with Touch Bar. Let's just hope that we won't have the 16" which is identical to 15" but more expensive on top of it.
Doesn't matter how many configs there are of the 13" Pro, it's still the same model, especially now the non-TB model is dead. Most people know what they want to buy anyway, so since when has a choice been an issue?

It's fairly obvious that the 16" will replace the 15". They might sell the two alongside each other for a period of time but the 15" Pro will be killed off at some point.

I'm sure the same will happen with the 13" Pro as well when that gets refreshed next Spring/Summer. They could easily fit a 14" screen in the same footprint.
 

ascender

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Dec 8, 2005
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Yeah, I think it's the first step of the new bezel-less redesign. Idk why they would start with only launching the 15 inch models, but they've it before. Maybe to sell the more expensive machines to people who would rather buy the cheaper 13 inch model if they were available too - I don't know...
A standalone MacBook Pro "Pro" with better specs doesn't make much sense to me. After all, that's why we have a MacBook Air. A MacBook Pro should always be the machine with the spec they have available.
We shouldn't rule out that there might be all new 16" and 14" machines coming, in a way it would make more sense if they do a complete refresh. The counterpoint to that is that they have just done a refresh of the line, so maybe there will be a new 16" and that design will filter down in 2020.
 
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leman

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Oct 14, 2008
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I think you're over-thinking the details compared to your average Mac buyer. IMO the laptop lineup hasn't been this simple and consistent in years.
Maybe you are right. I suppose my mind is still stuck at the time before the last streamlining took place.
 

Falhófnir

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Aug 19, 2017
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There are two MacBook Pro 13", with different CPU performance classes and internal components (which is even more confusing). But its certainly better than few months ago when we had the MacBook, the MacBook Pro without Touch Bar and two models with Touch Bar. Let's just hope that we won't have the 16" which is identical to 15" but more expensive on top of it.
Frankly the performance difference between the 15W and 28W models is minimal. Having a slightly more robust cooling system might mean the 28W model can sustain performance levels for a bit longer, but this is only going to benefit those who are really pushing the machine hard for a really extended period - at which point you'd seriously be better off with the 45W 15 inch anyway. For this reason, when the 28W model is presumably upgraded to a 14" I think they will differentiate it further with a dGPU, and, depending on if it grows in size, and whether suitable cooler 10nm chips are available, maybe even a H series CPU to match the larger model.
 

leman

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Oct 14, 2008
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For this reason, when the 28W model is presumably upgraded to a 14" I think they will differentiate it further with a dGPU, and, depending on if it grows in size, and whether suitable cooler 10nm chips are available, maybe even a H series CPU to match the larger model.
About this — they probably won't need a dGPU to begin with. Intel's new GPUs are coming out soon and the AMD chips are also scalable enough to produce very small CPU/GPU configurations. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 14" MBP with the same overall size as the current 13" that uses a 10nm Intel CPU + 10/12 CU AMD Navi (or Intel Xe) + HBM2/3 package.
 

Falhófnir

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Aug 19, 2017
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About this — they probably won't need a dGPU to begin with. Intel's new GPUs are coming out soon and the AMD chips are also scalable enough to produce very small CPU/GPU configurations. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 14" MBP with the same overall size as the current 13" that uses a 10nm Intel CPU + 10/12 CU AMD Navi (or Intel Xe) + HBM2/3 package.
Do we yet know how gen 11 iGPUs perform in real world usage? I know they have stated ~1TFLOP+ performance previously, which is catching up to something like a vanilla GTX 1050, so not exactly to be sniffed at, but given a pretty constrained TDP balance (at least for the 15W versions) it does seem like that's going to be a bit much to sustain for more than a couple of minutes, particularly if you're also pressing the CPU cores, 10nm or no. Ultimately the Intel G series which was effectively a 45W quad intel chip sharing a 65W TDP dynamically with a vega M GPU - theoretically the parts were approximately equivalent to what the 2017 15" MBP was using - but even at 65W the TDP was limiting for use cases where both the CPU and GPU were being used intensively. This is why I think they might want to make what is currently the 28W 13" a hair larger to fit more robust cooling in, if they are going to move it more towards workstation territory rather than being basically a glorified ultrabook.
 

jerryk

macrumors 601
Nov 3, 2011
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There are two MacBook Pro 13", with different CPU performance classes and internal components (which is even more confusing). But its certainly better than few months ago when we had the MacBook, the MacBook Pro without Touch Bar and two models with Touch Bar. Let's just hope that we won't have the 16" which is identical to 15" but more expensive on top of it.
16" vs 15" screen. I expect it to be more expensive.
 

HappyIntro

macrumors regular
Apr 30, 2016
193
196
16" vs 15" screen. I expect it to be more expensive.
Yes, I agree it would be a huge surprise if it wasn't. However I like the idea of an entry level 16" that has no dGPU, maybe use the CPUs currently offered in the 13" MBP for good-enough performance and great battery life, along with an enticing price. There's lots of people who want a beautiful larger screen laptop, but don't need tons of horsepower under the hood to get their work done - I'd say that's probably the majority of potential Apple laptop purchasers.
 

jerryk

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Nov 3, 2011
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Yes, I agree it would be a huge surprise if it wasn't. However I like the idea of an entry level 16" that has no dGPU, maybe use the CPUs currently offered in the 13" MBP for good-enough performance and great battery life, along with an enticing price. There's lots of people who want a beautiful larger screen laptop, but don't need tons of horsepower under the hood to get their work done - I'd say that's probably the majority of potential Apple laptop purchasers.
Every 15" MBP today has a dGPU. I would expect that every 16" MBP will have a dGPU. Buyers like me of previous 15" MPBs would be upset if Apple did not include a dGPU so we could offload the CPU/iGPU package. Also, once you get to $2400 or so, $50-100 more for dGPU and associated better cooling system is not a big uplift.
 

Queru

macrumors newbie
Jul 29, 2019
16
11
Yes, I agree it would be a huge surprise if it wasn't. However I like the idea of an entry level 16" that has no dGPU, maybe use the CPUs currently offered in the 13" MBP for good-enough performance and great battery life, along with an enticing price. There's lots of people who want a beautiful larger screen laptop, but don't need tons of horsepower under the hood to get their work done - I'd say that's probably the majority of potential Apple laptop purchasers.
I'd love to see MacBook Air 15,4 inch with current screens from MacBook Pro but with low TDP Intel 10 nm processors and only iGPU. Then they can keep old screen production line, which I assume might be cheaper at this point, while having new more expensive Pro models with even better screen quality and higher price range. This would allow them to keep selling old tech which they seem to love lol.

Yet I'm afraid they will never do it, cus it's kinda what you said - it might cannibalize sales of 15 inch Pro (potential buyers, who care mostly about screen space). And also it would make no to very little sense to buy base 13 inch then... probably it would come down to prices.

What I would love to see in terms of lineup? 13 & 15 inch Air with current design, low TDP 10 nm Intel chips and screen technology of 2016-2019 Pros, and 14 & 16 inch Pro with modern design and top of the line specs.
 

HappyIntro

macrumors regular
Apr 30, 2016
193
196
Yeah, I guess I'm dreaming if I'm thinking Apple will go back to when they offered the choice of a 15" with dGPU or no dGPU, this time in a 16". But who knows? I'd also mention that an eGPU is a solution for those who need to do heavy graphics intensive tasks.
 

jerryk

macrumors 601
Nov 3, 2011
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SF Bay Area
Yeah, I guess I'm dreaming if I'm thinking Apple will go back to when they offered the choice of a 15" with dGPU or no dGPU, this time in a 16". But who knows? I'd also mention that an eGPU is a solution for those who need to do heavy graphics intensive tasks.
Apple is trying to streamline the MacBook line to the Air and MBP. What you are describing is a big screen Air which can be sold at a lower price point than a MBP. Maybe they create one of those one day which will have a lower gamut and brightness large display. But the MacBook Pro will always have more premium parts and performance.

The eGPU would be a benefit to the 15/16 Pro with dGPU, but even more so for an Air or 13" MBP user. But the cost is portability, since it is a 10 pound box.
 

HappyIntro

macrumors regular
Apr 30, 2016
193
196
Apple is trying to streamline the MacBook line to the Air and MBP. What you are describing is a big screen Air which can be sold at a lower price point than a MBP. Maybe they create one of those one day which will have a lower gamut and brightness large display. But the MacBook Pro will always have more premium parts and performance.

The eGPU would be a benefit to the 15/16 Pro with dGPU, but even more so for an Air or 13" MBP user. But the cost is portability, since it is a 10 pound box.
You make some good points. But I am not describing a big screen Air at all.
 

kp98077

macrumors 6502a
Oct 26, 2010
944
243
I don't think I have ever seen so much confusion in all my time in mac rumors lol... I guess no one really knows... I just cant believe I am stuck with this 15" laptop and another week on the return policy...…. but then what would I use between?? ugh