16 illegals sue rancher

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by FX120, Feb 18, 2009.

  1. FX120 macrumors 65816

    FX120

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    #1
    This story is a about a week old, but I didn't see it posted on here and I found it quite interesting:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/09/16-illegals-sue-arizona-rancher/

     
  2. No1451 macrumors 6502

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    #2
    I'm surprised this hasn't been tossed out yet, it's fairly ridiculous.
     
  3. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #3
    Agreed. There is no way I would ever vote guilty if I was on that jury.
     
  4. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

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    #4
    I see one possible charge there: assault (kicking the woman). Otherwise, he had legal right to hold them under citizen's arrest.
     
  5. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #5
    What an idiot. I'm glad he is in court and I hope he loses.

    He had no legal right. A citizens arrest can only be made if the guy actually saw them commit a felony. So unless he saw them physically cross the border, he's in a lot of trouble here.

    All this guy did was see a group of hispanics, assume they were illegal (typical in Arizona :rolleyes: ), and then hold them at gunpoint. It doesn't matter if he was right about their immigration status, but he didn't see them commit a felony.

    The wanna-be cowboy should have just called border patrol and left himself out of it.
     
  6. thebassoonist macrumors 6502a

    thebassoonist

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    #6
    What are "illegals?"







    Oh... illegal immigrants.
     
  7. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #7
    Yeah, you have to make them less than human to hate them real good.
     
  8. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

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    #8
    His word against theirs. If he has binoculars, it's reasonable to assume he could have been looking at the border. If he says he was, it's a stalemate. Since it's proven they were illegals, there's no question they crossed the border at some point, it's just a question of whether or not he was there to witness it, no?
     
  9. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #9
    Sorry- I vote that they lose. Throw out the case. This is silly.
     
  10. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #10
    Although I only went to Wikipedia Law School, it appears that he had to witness the felony to make a citizens arrest. Otherwise, he's in a lot of trouble. But hopefully someone with more knowledge on the subject can clear this up.
     
  11. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #11
    Thanks for insulting Arizonan's, appreciate it. Anyway, to get back to reality here. This guy has been dealing with this for years, they come across the border into his property, trashing the place, causing harm to his cattle. He has every right to defend his property, just like you have the same rights.

    I will assume by your stance on this subject that we should just allow people to illegally cross our borders and then automatically have the right to sue you, get healthcare for free, not pay taxes, cause your taxes to go up to pay for what they don't? I hope this guy wins, so it does set the bar even higher when it comes to illegal immigration, because if he loses then illegal immigrants can come over, sue you for god knows what, and take you American dream away from you.
     
  12. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #12
    Well we disagree then. I guess I hear about things like this more since I live in a border state, but crossing is extremely dangerous for the people doing so, and the last thing they need is some nut-job rounding them up and threatening to shoot them all. Here in Arizona we actually have groups opposing water stations for the immigrants. God forbid we treat people like human beings, but that would require that these people admit that immigrants are not less than human.
     
  13. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #13
    Maybe they shouldn't be crossing illegally, there are other ways to get into this country that will benefit them. Sorry, but illegal immigrants should not get the same rights as people who immigrate to this country legally...
     
  14. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #14
    Bingo. Ship them back, end of story.

    No- the last thing we need is more illegal immigration and cases like this that make it look easy for people to abuse our system. This lawsuit is wrong- plain and simple.
     
  15. thebassoonist macrumors 6502a

    thebassoonist

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    #15
    How on Earth can anyone live in the US and not pay taxes? Do they not buy anything? No food, no clothes? And, if they are using fake Social Security numbers, paying into a program that they will never see anything of, they are directly benefiting the elderly. Not to mention the incredible amounts of money that banks, and therefore the government, make off the backs of these hard working and often invisible people who send money back home.
    They should have the right to sue. There are certain rights that ANYONE on US soil should have.
    If there was damage done to his property, he should have involved the police. If the police weren't doing enough, he should have petitioned the city/county to have more police force. He shouldn't have threatened and held a group of people at gunpoint.
     
  16. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #16
    I live in Phoenix, Arizona. I know full well what the people in this state are like. One only has to look at the reelection of Arpaio in November to see the prevailing attitude in this county.

    What was this particular group of people doing, besides walking on his property? You think holding 11 people at gunpoint, threatening to shoot them, is a reasonable response to trespassing? No warnings? It's not likely this group of people knew they were on private land, and the rancher most likely did not see them commit a felony.

    I wouldn't have to worry about getting sued by any immigrants, because I'm not dumb enough to kidnap any. But free healthcare, eh? Maybe you'd like to explain that one. I know it's a typical talking point for anti-immigrant Arizonan's, but it's simply not true. Undocumented immigrants do pay taxes if they work. In fact, they pay into the system but get nothing out of it (social security). They pay property taxes if they own a home. They pay sales tax on anything the buy. So maybe you'd also like to explain the tax one to me.

    So you disagree with the water stations, or treating everybody like a human being, regardless their country of origin? What was the "no" for?
     
  17. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #17
    I guess you don't know the under-the-table tactics that happen with illegal immigration. Most do not get paid through any type of payroll system that will take out the taxes or social security you talk about. They get paid in cash...

    And no, just because you are on American soil does not give you all the rights of a citizen of this country, that is the whole meaning by the word "illegal".
     
  18. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #18
    I assume you have data to back that up?
     
  19. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #19
    Look- I don't think anyone is anti-immigrant, but I think a lot of people are anti-illegal immigrant. I live in Chicago, BTW- and we have tons of illegal immigrants. I've worked with some when I worked in restaurants. It's not that I don't like them, it's just that they need to come here legally.

    I worked at a few places that did exactly that. How could you get data to back up something that isn't being recorded in the first place?
     
  20. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

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    #20
    It's difficult when it is different offenders every time. The ability to defend one's own home and property recognizes law enforcement cannot always be there in a timely fashion.
     
  21. SmartIndianKid macrumors regular

    SmartIndianKid

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    #21
    Then where do you draw the line on rights?

    Do legal tourists have the same rights as citizens? How about legal immigrants or green card holders? Do you think that natural born citizens should have more rights than naturalized citizens?

    Do you believe that certain groups of people should be able to be assaulted and held at gunpoint with no consequences?
     
  22. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #22
    I love how you pick one side of the case. Maybe you should move to Mexico since that is who you are supporting. Screw Americans that want to protect their land, right? THEY OBTAIN THE ABILITY TO HAVE A HOME WITH ILLEGAL ACTIONS... What part of this is not understood? If they have a social security number, they obtained it illegally, if they have a home they obtained it illegally.
     
  23. thebassoonist macrumors 6502a

    thebassoonist

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    #23
    Your first point is a problem with the employers. And I too would like to see that backed up with data. And your second point, I'm not talking about ALL rights. I'm not talking about being able to vote, etc. I'm just talking about being protected from, say, being murdered or raped, or being assaulted and held at gunpoint.
     
  24. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #24
    Of course they do- they're legal.

    Perhaps not. But when those very people were breaking the law to begin with, I don't think they should be able to sue.
     
  25. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #25
    OMG... we are talking legalities here. And you proved it, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS should not be afforded the same American rights and laws. I am not saying they are less of a human being, but they are not legal citizens of this country.
     

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