16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

x3sphere

macrumors newbie
Apr 17, 2014
26
8
What SPECIFICALLY do you want to know about eGPU and MBP16,1? Not yet installed .4 update but have eGPU with RX5700XT.
If you have iStat installed, I'm wondering what the value of "Radeon High Side" is when you are connected through the eGPU.
 

gsbabil

macrumors member
Feb 4, 2020
61
28
The thread's title is literally "16 is hot and noisy with an external monitor." That's my last reply to you.
The thread-title you cite above seems accurate, but I think it's a mistake to draw your conclusions from the title only.

I read your previous comments carefully - it's not very clear what your exact point is.

Are you saying that the Radeon GPU chip drawing ~19W immediately after connecting an external monitor to the MBP-2019 in idle mode is a normal behavior?

If yes, I think you are about to find most of the people on this thread in disagreement with you.

Thank you.
 
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gsbabil

macrumors member
Feb 4, 2020
61
28
## Disabling CPU Turbo-Boost in Catalina 10.15.4

Folks,

I have some positive (but no less shameful) results to share - it looks like if I disable Intel CPU turbo-boost in Catalina 10.15.4 final, the overall temperature stays around ~60-62 C, and fans stay around ~2800-3000 RPM in open-lid (non-clamshell) mode with my Dell P2415Q 4K external monitor.

The fan noise feels reasonably bearable on my end for the time being. Some additional notes below:
  • Radeon high side temperature is still at around ~19-20 W
  • I'm using Turbo Boost Switcher to enable/disable Intel CPU turbo-boost
Hope this helps. Thank you.

1585104355740.png
 
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kemo

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2008
746
113
ProtonVPN
Created an account so i can participate in this discussion.

Same exact problem like everyone else here, fans goes to 4000 rpm and mac gets really hot just by watching youtube videos on external monitor. Doesn't seem like there is much of a solution on this thread.

So im really curious, for those that didnt sell or downgrade to an older macbook pro, how did most of you live with this issue? The fans are annoying but my main concern is if the heat and the constant running fans will affect my mbp in the long run...
I can't stand the fans so I degraded my workflow to no external display for now. Still hoping the power draw for dGPU will change with future OS releases - it's very likely GPU's power managment thing.
 
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schertlerbombe

macrumors newbie
Mar 24, 2020
16
7
hey!
I follow this topic for some time now because I also noticed an increase of heat while connected to an external monitor as mentioned in previous posts.

I also observed some other strange behavior after I started to monitor the dgpu wattage in the statusbar with istat menus:
While only using the internal screen and the igpu (light safari browsing for example), the dgpu increases to around 5 watts sometimes and even spikes to as high as 15watts at times while it is not actually in use. (usually 0,0-1W when using the igpu only)

Im not an expert in this topic, yet the aforementioned observation aswell as the 18watt usage with open lid and external monitor look like some sort of power management problem.

edit: those spikes while using igpu only were caused by the WhatsApp desktop app. After closing the app and open it again, the dgpu wattage went back to about 0,1w. strange

edit 2: I tested the gpu powerdraw in bootcamp in idle: internal screen only 13Watts, with 4k monitor (usb-c) and lid open still 13Watts.
Also explains why bootcamp temps are always that high. Even worse driver optimization than in MacOS
 
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MrGunnyPT

macrumors 6502a
Mar 23, 2017
923
567
I don't have this issue in my MBP-2019.

To clarify further, I haven't manually altered the fan profiles and using what Catalina does by default.

Did you modify your fan profiles? For example, you could change them with iStat Menus (screenshot below).

Please let us know. Thank you.


View attachment 900999
- - Post merged: - -



- You'll very likely have the "hot and noisy" issue if are using both the MBP-2019 screen _and_ the external monitor.

- You should be fine if you close the MBP-2019 screen (put it in clamshell mode) and _only_ use the external monitor. This mode requires additional mouse, keyboard, and sacrifices the MBP-2019's built-in touch-bar and Touch-ID sensors.

Some more details here. Hope this helps. Thanks!
Yes I’m using manual control at around 30% latest iStat version
- - Post merged: - -

I upgraded to a 38GL950G monitor recently and I found my MBP's 5500M will now draw 19W even in clamshell mode. Fans are now quite loud. Bummer :( On my 34GK950F it didn't, even at high refresh rates.

Anyone know if using an eGPU avoids the issue? I assume it'll go back to the idle wattage if I connect the external monitor to an eGPU.
eGPU seems to solve the issue. However it’s a big investment just for this in my view.
 

Tnanman

macrumors newbie
Mar 11, 2020
7
1
## Disabling CPU Turbo-Boost in Catalina 10.15.4

Folks,

I have some positive (but no less shameful) results to share - it looks like if I disable Intel CPU turbo-boost in Catalina 10.15.4 final, the overall temperature stays around ~60-62 C, and fans stay around ~2800-3000 RPM in open-lid (non-clamshell) mode with my Dell P2415Q 4K external monitor.

The fan noise feels reasonably bearable on my end for the time being. Some additional notes below:
  • Radeon high side temperature is still at around ~19-20 W
  • I'm using Turbo Boost Switcher to enable/disable Intel CPU turbo-boost
Hope this helps. Thank you.

View attachment 901112
It sucks that this seems to be the only solution.

Calling Apple, talking to engineering did nothing for me. Said it was working how it should.

I wish I could disable the Radeon GPU and just use the iGPU for external displays, but Apple doesn't allow that. The problem, as you've pointed out, seems to be the inability to cool the CPU + dGPU at the same time, since for some reason it automatically starts using 20w from just being idle.

Obviously they could fix this somewhat with a software push, but they won't.
 

gsbabil

macrumors member
Feb 4, 2020
61
28
Yes I’m using manual control at around 30% latest iStat version
- - Post merged: - -



eGPU seems to solve the issue. However it’s a big investment just for this in my view.
>> Yes I’m using manual control at around 30% latest iStat version

Thanks for confirming.

Could you please share a screenshot or some more details so that we can see the kind of custom fan profiles you are using?

Thank you.
 

gsbabil

macrumors member
Feb 4, 2020
61
28
## Forcing dGPU (Radeon Pro) in Catalina 10.15.4

I did a separate test today to see how the dGPU behaves in "forced" mode with _no_ external screen attached. We already know that dGPU is enforced (and can't be disabled) when an external display is attached.

This was just to see if the dGPU (Radeon Pro 5500) draws ~19-20W under the no-external-display-attached scenario as well. It turns out that the answer is - no. It draws around ~6-7 W. Some more details below.
  • With _no_ external monitor attached, if dGPU (Radeon Pro 5500) in MBP-2019 is enforced (I've used gfxCardStatus) it draws around ~6-7 W of power, temperature stay around ~60-65 C, and fan speed remains at around ~1800-2000 RPM.
Hope this helps. Thanks.

Untitled.png
 

gsbabil

macrumors member
Feb 4, 2020
61
28
P=A*V so I wouldn't expect there to be much of a draw on the dGPU with no external connected since the internal is being ran on iGPU.
>> ... since the internal is being ran on iGPU.

Thanks. To clarify, dGPU was being used (iGPU was disabled) to drive the MBP-2019 built-in retina display in the graph here (note the spike from ~0 to ~6.7 W in the graph).

When iGPU is used to drive the MBP-2019 built-in retina display, the Radeon power draw is around ~0.10-0.12 W.

Thank you.
 

An-apple-a-day

macrumors member
Mar 31, 2010
31
39
I just expect that when my computer is IDLE the fans are IDLE.
That's it.
All my other laptops and computers work like that.
Also just because you are used to running your laptop fans at 4000rpm does not make it normal.
Well, with that expectation, you would be disappointed with any non-relic MBP. For years MBP fans have been running at ~2000 rpm even when computer is idle and cold. This is by design. I think that behavior started with the very first unibody ones using the Nvidia chipset.
 

subjonas

macrumors 68020
Feb 10, 2014
2,373
2,153
Well, with that expectation, you would be disappointed with any non-relic MBP. For years MBP fans have been running at ~2000 rpm even when computer is idle and cold. This is by design. I think that behavior started with the very first unibody ones using the Nvidia chipset.
Are you talking about with or without extended desktop? I have a 2012 rMBP and a 1600x1200 monitor, and all day for years I’ve been running an extended desktop with a drawing program, and the fans almost never kick on. But I don’t know what the situation is with newer GPUs and higher resolution monitors.
 

gsbabil

macrumors member
Feb 4, 2020
61
28
Well, with that expectation, you would be disappointed with any non-relic MBP. For years MBP fans have been running at ~2000 rpm even when computer is idle and cold. This is by design. I think that behavior started with the very first unibody ones using the Nvidia chipset.
Are you talking about with or without extended desktop? I have a 2012 rMBP and a 1600x1200 monitor, and all day for years I’ve been running an extended desktop with a drawing program, and the fans almost never kick on. But I don’t know what the situation is with newer GPUs and higher resolution monitors.

@An-apple-a-day

>> ... For years MBP fans have been running at ~2000 rpm even when computer is idle and cold. This is by design.

On top of what @subjonas said above, I'd like to confirm if @silvetti is really claiming that his MBP-2019 with an external monitor running at 2000 RPM is a bad outcome?

Vast majority of the rest of us on this thread aren't keeping such expectations or making such claims i.e. most people would be rather happy if their MBP-2019 stayed at 2000 RPM with an external 4K screen connected.

Thank you.
 

pshufd

macrumors 68000
Oct 24, 2013
1,649
1,539
New Hampshire
@An-apple-a-day

>> ... For years MBP fans have been running at ~2000 rpm even when computer is idle and cold. This is by design.

On top of what @subjonas said above, I'd like to confirm if @silvetti is really claiming that his MBP-2019 with an external monitor running at 2000 RPM is a bad outcome?

Vast majority of the rest of us on this thread aren't keeping such expectations or making such claims i.e. most people would be rather happy if their MBP-2019 stayed at 2000 RPM with an external 4K screen connected.

Thank you.
My 2014 MBP is running at 2,156 RPM at 43 degrees in clamshell mode connect to a Dell 27 inch 4K monitor and playing a video on VLC.

If a 2020 with it's better power and cooling is putting out more heat, it must be a bug or defect.
 

silvetti

macrumors 6502a
Nov 24, 2011
890
298
Poland
@An-apple-a-day

>> ... For years MBP fans have been running at ~2000 rpm even when computer is idle and cold. This is by design.

On top of what @subjonas said above, I'd like to confirm if @silvetti is really claiming that his MBP-2019 with an external monitor running at 2000 RPM is a bad outcome?

Vast majority of the rest of us on this thread aren't keeping such expectations or making such claims i.e. most people would be rather happy if their MBP-2019 stayed at 2000 RPM with an external 4K screen connected.

Thank you.
Did any of you even read what I wrote? :D
Where did I mention that 2000rpms was not expected?

What I said: Also just because you are used to running your laptop fans at 4000rpm does not make it normal.

It’s obvious that when I mean idle I mean base speed for MacBook Pro 16 which is 1800 and other one at 1600rpm.
 

gsbabil

macrumors member
Feb 4, 2020
61
28
Did any of you even read what I wrote? :D
Where did I mention that 2000rpms was not expected?

What I said: Also just because you are used to running your laptop fans at 4000rpm does not make it normal.

It’s obvious that when I mean idle I mean base speed for MacBook Pro 16 which is 1800 and other one at 1600rpm.

@silvetti

>> Did any of you even read what I wrote? :D
>> Where did I mention that 2000rpms was not expected?


Sorry, to clarify my position - I didn't think you did. That was what I was trying to get at :).

Since the "2000 RPM" conversation started, I am not actually sure who did (if anyone) complain about 2000 RPM being "hot & noisy". I personally don't think anyone would be unhappy with 2000 RPM with an external display attached to their MBP-2019 machines!

---

To those who are starting at page-34 of this thread, the fact is that MBP-2019 machines are reaching around ~4200-4500 RPM when external displays are attached, and this is essentially being contributed by the fact that the Radeon Pro 5300/5500 dGPU immediately starts to draw around ~19-20 W as soon as an external display is attached (even when the laptop is basically idle, and there's a minuscule load on the dGPU).

In order to stay at around ~3000 RPM, a cheap workaround is to temporary disable Inter CPU turbo-boost. This will basically make the CPU to contribute with less heat, while the dGPU will still contribute more than desired, and the overall will be around ~60-62 C (leading the fans to ~2800-3000 RPM).

If you are aware of any other details or workarounds, please share.

---

Thank you.
 
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Roystal

macrumors newbie
Mar 22, 2020
2
0
@silvetti

>> Did any of you even read what I wrote? :D
>> Where did I mention that 2000rpms was not expected?


Sorry, to clarify my position - I didn't think you did. That was what I was trying to get at :).

Since the "2000 RPM" conversation started, I am not actually sure who did (if anyone) complain about 2000 RPM being "hot & noisy". I personally don't think anyone would be unhappy with 2000 RPM with an external display attached to their MBP-2019 machines!

---

To those who are starting at page-34 of this thread, the fact is that MBP-2019 machines are reaching around ~4200-4500 RPM when external displays are attached, and this is essentially being contributed by the fact that the Radeon Pro 5300/5500 dGPU immediately starts to draw around ~19-20 W as soon as an external display is attached (even when the laptop is basically idle, and there's a minuscule load on the dGPU).

In order to stay at around ~3000 RPM, a cheap workaround is to temporary disable Inter CPU turbo-boost. This will basically make the CPU to contribute with less heat, while the dGPU will still contribute more than desired, and the overall will be around ~60-62 C (leading the fans to ~2800-3000 RPM).

If you are aware of any other details or workarounds, please share.

---

Thank you.
Regarding this ,are there any downsides to doing this ? Im not much of a tech geek so i really have no idea what Inter CPU turbo-boost is and whether disabling it will affect my MBP in any way.

Ive updated to the 10.15.4 , same problems, same issues, and i only have a few days with apple support as i did not get Apple Care at all.

Im also still experiencing 18-19W on the Radeon GPU even in clamshell mode at 2560x1440 resolution but not 1080p at 60hz, is this possibly a wire issue? Im using a pretty ****** HDMI to HDMI cable with the mac adapter.

And also thank you for being active on this sub, this issue has been bugging since i started using an external monitor this sub has been more useful than Apple.
 

Salomonander

macrumors newbie
Feb 19, 2020
20
0
This is so dissapointing. i saved up four grand to buy the mbp but i simply cant get myself placing an order. this would be my first apple product and seeing how they just dont give a darn really makes me think twice. does not seem like a trustworthy company at all 🤷‍♂️ im reading reviews of windows laptops now. shame on you apple!
 

Spartan23R

macrumors newbie
Sep 14, 2011
25
3
Anyone here tested the macbook 16" with a 21:9 UltraWide (2560x1080) screen? Wanna know if the fans go ultraspeed too with this type of display.
 

itakemycoronawithalime

macrumors member
Mar 6, 2020
55
26
I have (2) UltrafineFine 4k's (23.7") in clamshell and I am at 1850 RPM 42*.

Granted I just woke the MBP a few minutes ago and have only been browsing on Safari. However, I am still driving the (2) displays.

16" MBP.
 

AMTYVLE

macrumors 6502a
Sep 23, 2014
588
409
Southeast Florida
Anyone here tested the macbook 16" with a 21:9 UltraWide (2560x1080) screen? Wanna know if the fans go ultraspeed too with this type of display.
I'm actually getting one of these delivered today, an LG UltraWide 34" 2560x1080. Now that I'm working from home I needed an external monitor. It'll be here hopefully soon - can't wait to see what happens with my 16" MBP.
 

lǝʍɐd

macrumors newbie
Mar 20, 2020
4
2
127.0.0.1
I have (2) UltrafineFine 4k's (23.7") in clamshell and I am at 1850 RPM 42*.

Granted I just woke the MBP a few minutes ago and have only been browsing on Safari. However, I am still driving the (2) displays.

16" MBP.
Can anyone confirm that? I'm getting eGPU next week, but maybe I'll just go with another display...
 
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