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Thanks for the info.

No problem. I'm perturbed at the fact Apple didn't go with the aforementioned 5400RPM 250GB drive on the 17". I'm picking one up next week and I'd like to get that drive, but don't have the motivation to open the damn thing up. Maybe I'll go with the 250GB, then if I feel I need a boost, swap that out for the 5400RPM drive and stick the 4200RPM one in an external FW-powered enclosure.
 
Here are my thoughts after upgrading/modifing/replacing/repairing a ton of Apple laptops/iMacs/Minis (for myself and others) :

1) Yes, it can be hard sometimes. Especially if you are not mechanically/technically inclined. (Not my case since I've been in related fields for years.)

2) Usually you'll save money, but sometimes it's not a ton. So if you are worried and could not bare to delay yourself- pay for the upgrade.

3) Often you get better choices. Like Multimedia pointed out, the 250GB/5400RPM Scorpio is the best upgrade since the 15" MBP does not even have that option.

4) If you are willing to take the risk in upgrading, remember that it's highly unlikely you completely destroy your computer. Ex: I once ripped a ribbon cable in my new-ish clamshell iBook upgrading a hard drive. It sucked and cost me $120 to find the part, but I fixed it. I learned my leson and have not had any other incidents in 5 years. But you have to gauge your clumsiness.

5) From the looks of it, the MBP is easier to upgrade than ALOT of previous Apple laptops like iBooks and the 12" Powerbook. But it still requires opening the case. Too bad it's not like the Macbook.

--------

I will most likely get the stock glossy 2.4Ghz 15" and upgrade the drive and RAM myself to 250GB/5400RPM and 4GB. Then sell the parts and come out ahead.
 
I agree with neonart & most especially MovieCutter's advise for the OP. Benchmarks mean very little, unless there is a tremendous difference, like btw a 3 or more year old laptop drive and the very latest/fastest drives available.

To OP, nothing you're likely to use (FCP is a "pro app" that can benefit from faster drives when rendering/editing source material that you're not likely to ever use...at least not in the next few years, who knows how fast 4k res video will take to become available for d/l once the Red One ships to indies)

However for someone like MM or FCP users, I'd pass on the 250GB drives and go for installing the just recently (not available just yet at retail level) annouced shipping in volume, Hitachi 200GB 7.2k rpm drive...until faster still 128GB SSD's ship by year's end or early 2008. if you needed more than 200GB, then hookup an external FW800 or Express Card34 3.5in desktop 1TB drive, or RAID or those.

I'm pretty sure someone like MC, having exerience with all those different speed drives recently, could easily tell the difference btw the 7.2k 200GB Hitachi & a 250GB 4.2k drive. Though it might not be a huge difference, it might be enough to make someone lust for that little bit of additional speed in a 7.2k drive (then again, you'll often read about how people installed such 7.2k rpm drives from recent 5.4k drives and claim the speed increase is very significant...to which I say, they speed too much time worrying about how fast their hard drives are ;) ).
 
I have a 200gb drive ordered for my SR MBP. The way I see it, FCS 2 is a 50gb+ full install (I want everything available loaded). I also have plenty of other applications I want loaded and I occasionally would like to use Windows via Bootcamp. The extra space comes in handy.
 
If you want a large hard drive, go with the 200 GB. If you want speed, go with a 7200 RPM drive. If you need both, the 250 GB 5400 RPM drive from OWC would be the best balance of each.

Where's the logic? Surely 250GB "best balance" is bigger than 200GB "large hard drive".

Seagate's 7200RPM 160GB drive is substantially faster than any of those other choices.

That's what I'm going to have on my MBP that should arrive next week. I don't have any first-hand experience yet, but from what I've read/heard this is the drive I'm going to recommend.

My last drive was a 60GB 7200rpm Hitachi which was amazing 4 years ago when I installed it on a 667MHz PowerBook. IMO, if you don't get 7200rpm drive now you'll regret it later! There will always be external drives for storage but there's only going to be one internal boot drive. It's very important for overall snappiness. Huge difference!

I'd take a laptop with 7200rpm drive and 512MB RAM over another one with 4200rpm drive and 4GB RAM. But that may just be me ;)
 
Just Ordered 250GB WD

Ok, I just ordered the WD Scorpio 250GB drive so it's here before I get the MBP.

It's only $189 at newegg.com, which is a fantastic site.

I'll post photos of the install as soon as I get it.


Next I will order the RAM and have that ready too. I'll order the MBP this weekend, I think...
 
Ok, I just ordered the WD Scorpio 250GB drive so it's here before I get the MBP.

It's only $189 at newegg.com, which is a fantastic site.

I'll post photos of the install as soon as I get it.


Next I will order the RAM and have that ready too. I'll order the MBP this weekend, I think...

Great, I can't wait to see! Bee aware you're probably technically voiding the warranty though :mad:

I wish Newegg would get Seagate's 160GB 7200RPM drive in. That's the one I want, but their largest Seagate drive is 100GB.
 
I'm now using 60GB 5400rpm,.... so if I go for 200GB (4200rpm) option, will i notice the difference in speed? I do download movies sometimes (max 1.5 Mbps ADSL). Will smaller rpm affect the performance?

This is complicated. Drives that record at higher density are faster at the same RPM. And a drive that is full is slower than a drive that is half empty, so a 100 GB drive with 90 GB on it will be slower than a 200 GB drive with the same 90 GB on it.

The 60 GB drive is low density; the 200 GB drive is high density. The 200 GB will be faster at most things, even at lower RPM. It has a good chance to beat a 100 GB 7200 RPM drive, especially when you filled it with some data. It is only very recently that you can get high density drives at high RPMs, and they are expensive (like the 160 GB 7200 RPM that you found).

For most purposes, size matters more. Usually the harddisk speed only matters for people who don't have enough RAM and have gazillions of page ins/page outs.
 
Seagate's 7200RPM 160GB drive is substantially faster than any of those other choices. You would definitely notice it in real life, over the 100GB 7200RPM or 160GB 5400RPM models. (Going by Barefeats benchmarks)

This is the route that I am planning on going when I order my MacBook Pro. Let it ship with the stock HDD from Apple and replace it with Seagate's 7200rpm 160GB HDD. I will also probably up the RAM to 4GB, but that is for another thread.... :)
 
This is the route that I am planning on going when I order my MacBook Pro. Let it ship with the stock HDD from Apple and replace it with Seagate's 7200rpm 160GB HDD. I will also probably up the RAM to 4GB, but that is for another thread.... :)

FYI, this voids the warranty-which is why I haven't bought a Macbook Pro.
 
FYI, this voids the warranty-which is why I haven't bought a Macbook Pro.

FYI, no it doesn't...not unless you break it.

And you haven't bought a MacBook Pro because you can't swap the drive easily??? Ability to easily swap a hard drive in a notebook should be like reason #94 out of 100 to buy a laptop...:rolleyes:
 
FYI, no it doesn't...not unless you break it.

Yes, it does. Check the numerous other threads on here on the subject. I've posted a ton of forums, and that's the general consensus. It's also what can be inferred from the warranty.

And you haven't bought a MacBook Pro because you can't swap the drive easily??? Ability to easily swap a hard drive in a notebook should be like reason #94 out of 100 to buy a laptop...:rolleyes:

Don't :rolleyes: me. I want to have a warrenty on a $2500 piece of hardware. If I can't swap drives, then I can't send the unit in for warranty service, effectively meaning I have no warranty. That might be fine on a $200 product, but not $2500.

There are a number of people (and I'm sure even organizations) who have to avoid the MBP and simlilar laptops because of this issue.
 
Yes, it does. Check the numerous other threads on here on the subject. I've posted a ton of forums, and that's the general consensus. It's also what can be inferred from the warranty.



Don't :rolleyes: me. I want to have a warrenty on a $2500 piece of hardware. If I can't swap drives, then I can't send the unit in for warranty service, effectively meaning I have no warranty. That might be fine on a $200 product, but not $2500.

There are a number of people (and I'm sure even organizations) who have to avoid the MBP and simlilar laptops because of this issue.

I'll :rolleyes: you all I want. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

So you're telling me if you NEEDED an Apple laptop with dedicated graphics, an ExpressCard slot, and the fastest processor available, you wouldn't buy it because of the fact you can't change your hard drive yourself??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And as far as the warranty is concerned, I worked for Apple. I have friends who STILL work for Apple. As long as you don't break the machine during a hard drive swap, you're fine. They recommend you go to an Apple Authorized Dealer, but if you can do it yourself without frying the machine, more power to ya!
 
No, it WON'T void the warranty. Trust me. The only way you will void your warranty is to break the thing while you're doing the upgrade. Simply opening the machine does NOT void your warranty.

Yeah I never got the 'If you open your computer it will void the warrantee' thing. I understand if they have seals they can tell but otherwise there is no way of Apple telling if you send the computer back for repair. And if anyone has seen the state Apple send computers in back from repair they would understand, after-all they make my repair work look good.
 
FYI, no it doesn't...not unless you break it.

And you haven't bought a MacBook Pro because you can't swap the drive easily??? Ability to easily swap a hard drive in a notebook should be like reason #94 out of 100 to buy a laptop...:rolleyes:

Actually, the easy upgradeability of hard drive is very high on MY list when I shop for a laptop.

Why?

* Hard drive and memory are the components that I will absolutely, positively want to upgrade sooner or later
* I want to have the option to take out the hard drive with my personal data from the machine, should I desire to do so

Now, I have just ordered a 2.4 GHz MBP with the 7200 RPM Seagate drive. Don't get me wrong - MBP is the best laptop out there right now, warts and all. But that does not mean I am not pissed at Apple for making hard drive upgrade/replacement in one of their Pro machines such an unnecessary PITA.
It has been like that for a while now too - I still shudder when I remember how I was upgrading the drive in my G4 AlBook. That one had some stupid latches you had to pop through the DVD drive slot... Ugh.
Two things suck about MBP: the hard drive replacement process, and the single mouse button touchpad (yes, I want to have 3 buttons).

An, no, replacing the drive yourself WILL NOT void your warranty unless you break something. I did replace the hard drive in my old G4 AlBook. When my machine needed repairs after some time, I went with it to the Apple Store and they fixed it no questions asked. So don't sweat about it.:)
 
And one more thing...

Go for the 7200 RPM drive.

Hard drive is the slowest component in the whole computer. Reading/writing data to disk is the rate limiting step for whetever you do on your machine. And using a 7200 RPM drive makes a lot of difference.
 
Replacing the hard drive will not void the warranty on your entire machine. It simply means the drive is no longer under Apple warranty (it's your drive), and if you spill your beer on the motherboard while you upgrade it, you're out of gas.

Also, the MBP is easier than the Al-PB, the Ti-Book, & all the iBooks.

That said, it'd be nice if the MBP had a door with screws right below the left palmrest where the HD sits. I would take the the hit in aesthetics (of the 2 or 4 screws) for the advantage of easier replacement.
 
Also, the MBP is easier than the Al-PB, the Ti-Book, & all the iBooks.

That said, it'd be nice if the MBP had a door with screws right below the left palmrest where the HD sits. I would take the the hit in aesthetics (of the 2 or 4 screws) for the advantage of easier replacement.

It is most categorically NOT easier than a TiBook.

In a TiBook a hard drive is a user-replaceable part, and the procedure for its replacement/upgrade is described in the user manual. To replace a TiBook's drive you only had to undo 8, I think, Torx screws on the bottom of the machine, take the bottom cover off - and voila, you had full access to innards, hard drive and DVD drive included.

The reason for crappy upgadeabilty of all the subsequent models is one, and one only: money. If you can easily upgrade your existent computer, you won't buy a new one. Apple want to sell you more computers. They don't want you to upgrade.

There is absolutely no technical reason for having no easy access to your hard drive.

And as far as the aesthetics goes - who would care? Certainly not me. That door would have been on the bottom of the machine...
 
So you're telling me if you NEEDED an Apple laptop with dedicated graphics, an ExpressCard slot, and the fastest processor available, you wouldn't buy it because of the fact you can't change your hard drive yourself??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yes, of course. I want a warranty on any notebook I buy, and effectively don't have one on a Macbook Pro if I care about data security-which I do, and so does my employer.

And as far as the warranty is concerned, I worked for Apple. I have friends who STILL work for Apple. As long as you don't break the machine during a hard drive swap, you're fine. They recommend you go to an Apple Authorized Dealer, but if you can do it yourself without frying the machine, more power to ya!

If that's true, that's great, but that goes against everything I've heard from Apple, it goes against what they say in their warranty, people's actual experiences, etc.

Yeah I never got the 'If you open your computer it will void the warrantee' thing. I understand if they have seals they can tell but otherwise there is no way of Apple telling if you send the computer back for repair. And if anyone has seen the state Apple send computers in back from repair they would understand, after-all they make my repair work look good.

True, they have to actually figure out you've done it, but that's a big risk on something I'd be droping $2500 on.

Actually, the easy upgradeability of hard drive is very high on MY list when I shop for a laptop.

Why?

* Hard drive and memory are the components that I will absolutely, positively want to upgrade sooner or later
* I want to have the option to take out the hard drive with my personal data from the machine, should I desire to do so

Yep. There are a LOT of people who this is important to, many who avoid systems where you can't do it. Even entire companies/divisions who won't allow it. (NO company in their right mind should allow something with work data/passwords to be sent in randomly to some other company.)

It has been like that for a while now too - I still shudder when I remember how I was upgrading the drive in my G4 AlBook. That one had some stupid latches you had to pop through the DVD drive slot... Ugh.

Yikes. Thankfully the MBP doesn't seem THAT bad, but there are still latches that sound like they're cracking when you take it apart.

Replacing the hard drive will not void the warranty on your entire machine. It simply means the drive is no longer under Apple warranty (it's your drive), and if you spill your beer on the motherboard while you upgrade it, you're out of gas.

It depends on teh model. The Macbook it's a user accessible part. The MBP it isn't.

That said, it'd be nice if the MBP had a door with screws right below the left palmrest where the HD sits. I would take the the hit in aesthetics (of the 2 or 4 screws) for the advantage of easier replacement.

It's completely nuts that they don't just stick a door there.

It is most categorically NOT easier than a TiBook.

In a TiBook a hard drive is a user-replaceable part, and the procedure for its replacement/upgrade is described in the user manual. To replace a TiBook's drive you only had to undo 8, I think, Torx screws on the bottom of the machine, take the bottom cover off - and voila, you had full access to innards, hard drive and DVD drive included.

I had completely forgotten that about the Tibook. Didn't realize they had actually gone BACKWARDS on the newer systems. :mad:

The reason for crappy upgadeabilty of all the subsequent models is one, and one only: money. If you can easily upgrade your existent computer, you won't buy a new one. Apple want to sell you more computers. They don't want you to upgrade.

If so, that's nuts. They don't realize the sales it's costing them. Just within my own department there are at least two other people who would buy a Macbook Pro RIGHT NOW if Apple fixed this. It's not even an upgrade that I care about (although being able to easily swap it many years down the road could help keep it in service longer, for family members, etc.)

And having a replaceable hard drive isn't going to prevent me from buying a new system any time sooner. The hard drive is the least of my concerns, compared to the GPU, CPU, chipset, and amount of RAM a system can handle.
 
Get the stock. Use it for a year. Then upgrade with whatever is the fastest on the market. HD density is going up by leaps and bounds. And their prices are also falling like crazy. In a year, you should be able to get a 250GB 7200 rpm drive for the same money as a 160GB 5400 rpm drive right now.

Unless you absolutely need the fastest thing right now (and you sound like you don't), go for the best bang for the buck and upgrade later.
 
It is most categorically NOT easier than a TiBook.

In a TiBook a hard drive is a user-replaceable part, and the procedure for its replacement/upgrade is described in the user manual. To replace a TiBook's drive you only had to undo 8, I think, Torx screws on the bottom of the machine, take the bottom cover off - and voila, you had full access to innards, hard drive and DVD drive included.

The reason for crappy upgadeabilty of all the subsequent models is one, and one only: money. If you can easily upgrade your existent computer, you won't buy a new one. Apple want to sell you more computers. They don't want you to upgrade.

There is absolutely no technical reason for having no easy access to your hard drive.

And as far as the aesthetics goes - who would care? Certainly not me. That door would have been on the bottom of the machine...

That's true. I'd forgotten about the Ti bottom. The only thing I've ever been asked to do on a TiBook was a hinge, and I didn't even want to try it. (glued LCD cover).

That said, the MBP is not much harder that the TiBook. Check the instructions. 1) Remove screws from the bottom, battery compartment and sides. 2) Open top case without ripping the trackpad cable. 3) Remove HD.

But if their world domination plan is not letting us upgrade laptops, I wonder why they made the MB so easy, and the MBP not as easy? Both cases were redesigned. Maybe MBP customers are more willing to pay for the upgrade up front, or more willing to pay for professional upgrading. Who knows?
 
So you've done the MBP? What's with that horrible, loud breaking sound you hear in the OWC (I think) video of upgrading the drive? It sounds really creepy-like you're having to practically break stuff to get the top off. It sure *sounds* like if you do it slightly wrong you'd damage it.

Makes a similar noise as you put the cover back on.
 
Sorry to hijack this thread but I'm wondering what happens to your files if you install another harddrive into your MBP?
 
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