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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by leekohler, May 17, 2007.
OK now- I know everybody is fascinated by the arguing in the Gitmo thread amongst me, skunk and Swarmlord, but let's take some time out for something positive.
two thumbs up for me.
its a start at least. baby steps are better than none, right?
Yeah, it's better than nothing.
Hmmm. I hope they've spoken to some heteros about the downside of getting married. I wonder if they'll be as supportive of this after they've paid the marriage penalty and perhaps been subjected to the cost of a divorce and allimony.
I still think they'd be smarter to set up a living trust, appropriate will, and some durable and medical powers of attorney unless it's just to get spouse benefits in healthcare through an employer and SSI after one of them retires.
Sorry for seeing it all from a financial angle, but I'm long past the age of getting the hots for someone and then deciding to marry them. It's a good ruling from a states reciprocity stand point and maybe it will result in a separation of church blessed unions and civil unions some day.
Well, to honest, in a better world this wouldn't be a story because it would be a given. They were married in one state, they remain married when moving to another. What's the big deal? It's actually kinda sad this is a story because it shouldn't be any more than any other married couple moving to a new state.
Sorry to be a downer.
I guess the new trope here is to dispute, deny and denigrate gay people's right to marry... in order to allegedly "protect" the gays from the downsides of marriage . Hmm. Where have we seen this before? Oh right, during the early days of the civil rights movement... you know, "well meaning" whites would advise black activists to "not strive for equal rights" as with rights come so many responsibilities, it would be a net loss for "colored folk". The idea was to infantilize them, as if they were not fully capable agents of their own destiny, as if they were children under the benevolent leadership of whites, for whom it was just a white man's burden. "Get me some beer, boy".
Don't lecture others on the ups and downs of marriage. It's insulting. Gay people have observed marriage for generations. They are intimately acquainted with the 1000 ways, large and small, in which marriage laws discriminate against gay people. Don't try to tell them how they don't see the "big picture". They have been forced into sham marriages by the hatred of society directed against them. And they have grown up in families where marriage was standard. Don't treat them like ignorant children.
Equal rights. No ifs, no buts, no maybes. If you have something you want with marriage - deal with it in your life. Let others make their own determination.
There is no question in my mind, that one day there will be equal rights for gay and straight, in all matters. The law of the land will no longer officially discriminate (private discrimination will exist, as long as there are jerks in this world). And we will look back on these times of vicious discrimination with equal disgust as we do when looking back on Jim Crow laws. We will remember those who argued against gay marriage as we remember those who argued against marriage between black and white people - those who argued so were bigots, just as we have bigots today argue against gay marriage.
So hate on, bigots, but remember, your time is passing... and good riddance.
Wow- the more I know you, the more you scare me.
I can't believe that the USA is so behind on this. When even an African country and some traditionally Catholic nations allow gay marriage, it really is shocking that this debate is still ongoing in a developed nation that prides itself on being The Land of The Free. This should have been settled a long time ago. Shameful.
Thank you, Captain Obvious. I'm sure we hedonists haven't thought of that yet.
Come visit sometime. You'll be really shocked at some of what you find here. We're not showing our best face at the moment. However, the pendulum is starting to swing back from far right to right of center, which is probably the best we can hope for at the moment.
I recommend Texas. It can be a real treat. I'll even take you to a church that tells its parishioners they shouldn't listen to music with bass and drums because it's the spawn of Satan! Really!
Everyone is going to hate me for saying this, but I think that making gay marriage legal would just end up destroying the society.
And I don't say this from a religious point of view, it is just that nature itself wasn't meant to be like this.
It is against any logic, men are supposed to be with women to procreate, to have children. Two men or to women would never be able to do this.
Also, if you let homosexual men or women adopt a child, that child would grow up without even a dad or a mom, and that would create future problems in that child.
Nature is full of examples of homosexual behavior outside of the human population.
Then it follows we shouldn't allow straight people who are unable to have children to marry?
What kind of problems? Care to link to a study?
::: subscribes to thread ::::
this ought to get good.
Tell me exactly how.
We've been adopting and raising kids for decades- the vast majority are just fine, thank you.
The human race is in no danger of dying out. There are plenty of people reproducing- perhaps too many. Homosexuality is nature's form of birth control, in my opinion. It is has been observed in many other mammals as well. Too say it's not natural is simply not a true statement.
FULL? Could you give me some examples? If it is the penguins you are talking about, it is just ONE case.
With homosexuals you are 100% sure they won't be able to have children.
And in the case straight couples can't have them, they can adopt them and raise the children properly.
About why homosexuals shouldn't raise children, it is because a child needs the support that only a dad can give, and that that only a mum can give.
Read this. It gives some examples of how homosexual parents can make the children life problematic.
*makes popcorn and kicks back in chair*
That was hardly a reputable link. That was an op-ed column. You'll have to do better than that if you want to be taken seriously.
And you'll really hate this article.
By the way- I don't expect you to change you're mind. Facts are so inconvenient to belief systems, aren't they? We'll present you with all sorts of studies and facts and you'll ignore them, because they don't fall into your "belief" system, whatever that may be.
Bruce Bagemihl's "Biological Exuberance," published in 1999, documents homosexual behavior in more than 450 animal species. The list includes grizzly bears, gorillas, flamingos, owls and even several species of salmon.
It is going to end destroying it because if you see how humanity has been developing in the last years, you would see how the new teenager that we have are each time able to do so much more thing than not more than 20 years ago where seen as a scandal.
Now it is normal for 14 years old kids to have sex, drugs and alcohol consumption are growing almost exponentially, you see how many kids need to stop studying because either they are pregnant or are in drugs, there are a lot of divorces now days (and don't tell me that divorces don't have a negative effect on children), etc.
Natural way of birth control? In animals the birth control can be explained easily with the survival of the fittest theory. But in humans it is different, we have medicine that prevents us from dying, etc. But homosexuality as a birth control solution is just not NATURAL, and nor correct. If we have the intelligence to have medicine to prevent people dying, I suppose we must have the intelligence to know when to have children.
If the world is over-populating is because the irresponsible thinking of many people, but homosexuality can't be seen as a birth control.
What does this have to do with gays marrying?
So post a link to study proving it.
Where do you people come from?
I accept it, that article was only of personal opinion. Check this one, which haves some statistics and testimonials.
EDIT: As I surely don't expect to change your mind. It has always been the same, and people would never think the same about everything. But at the end one of us must be in the correct thinking, and as you think your are the one correct, I also think the same.
That all this comes because the family as the center of the children life has been changing a lot in the past years. And within these changes come the homosexual parents.
I can't take this any longer!
Your link, roco, is to a place with this on their front page
And you expect people to take anything from there seriously?