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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by diamond geezer, Jun 10, 2004.
I'm so glad I'm not American, and live in a proper democracy.
TERESA HAMPTON & DOUG THOMPSON are paranoid
And Im glad your not an American either
Are you saying this isn't happening, or that it is happening and you aren't worried about it?
Little of column A...Little of column B
Well I'll guarantee that it's happening. Two professors of mine were involved in this kind of information gathering stuff and I got a few lectures on how computers can sift through the mountains of data necessary to make these systems work. It's still in an experimental stage, but it will be a reality within a decade.
On the flip side the consumer applications of this will be nice too. Imagine a super smart search engine capable of searching the web contextually. No more 7 billion hits when you search for something. Sort of like an Ask Jeeves that understands you and can answer correctly. Or smart software that can sort through your emails (some people get thousands a day) for the ones you need, kind of like a secretary would do with your messages. Software that can keep everyone connected during something like 9/11 for the different public agencies. Some of this stuff is available now, some is under development. It's not a matter of if, but when. The only thing to do is make sure the rules are in place to prevent it's misuse.
Unfortunately I don't trust the Bush administration to set an environment where those rules are followed.
You realize, of course, that statement is nonsensical.
This country scares me more and more every day.
I find myself wondering each day at work whether I'll do something to set off a homeland security alarm. Today I asked a website the value of 10,000,000 Swedish Crowns (curious as to the current value of a Nobel Prize), then I did a search for ammonium nitrate (fertilizer for an experiment in the greenhouse), then I did a google search for "kill office assistant" (I wanted to find a way to demolish in as grisly a way as possible that irritating little MS office paperclip).
Under TIA I'm guilty of attempted currency laundering, building a bomb, and conspiracy to commit murder. That's a lot of time in jail for an uneventful day at the office.
If your not doing anything illegal, then there is nothing for them to find. Who cares
anyone who cares about the constitution, i'd say. you're (the contraction of "you" and "are") more than welcome to give up your own rights, but don't tell me when i should surrender mine.
maybe you'll understand when you actually have something to lose, eh?
And what exactly is there to lose?
Oh god, the government knows what Im doing.
Big freaking deal...
Privacy is overrated
That's why I'm going to work nekkid tomorrow.
I've heard these rumors for decades. The NSA is supposed to have all these supercomputers listening for code words. I don't believe it, but I also don't rule it out. As someone who does value my constitutional rights (something you might take up, dopefiend) I'd like to know how wiretap authority is granted for every phone capable of being tapped into. There is that little thing called the Fourth Amendment.
diamond geezer (aka Pinto), I've got to make it to New Zealand sometime and see this democracy you talk of. All I've ever heard is that it is a wonderful place.
I've been doing that for years, colleague soon tire of it, despite the different dance I do each morning.
I think all this type of paranoia hype is one part garbage and one part useless, but I'd certainly be able to value my privacy if I lost it entirely.
then i suppose you won't mind being the first citizen to volunteer to have every room in your house outfitted with cameras, just to make sure you're not doing anything sneaky. nothing to hide, right?
I wouldn't mind at all. Not one thing I need to keep hidden or be sneaky about.
But I wouldn't be the first. Those set ups are all over the net
In any normal lifetime this probably wouldn't be a problem.
One day an individual decides they would like to stand up and be counted through legitimate democratic processes. If an individual were to be successful at becoming an opposition, their "File" could and would be quickly found and used to make that individuals stand within democracy very predictable indeed.
I believe that if an individual were to be rather successful in their stand against the controllers of the day, not only would their activities become predictable they would in fact become controllable. The extreme case would be for the individual to find that the controllers of the day had evidence to prove actions that had not happened in reality but only in information fabrication terms, of course the fabrication would be undetectable because the majority rely on the same data for beneficial purposes. It will not be questioned.
So generally, don't be paranoid, but don't pretend that this won't happen or doesn't happen. 99.5% of population would never have their data monitored, that's why there will never be any objection to these activities.
The day you poke your head out above the rest of the daisies, your data will be accessed.
Quick way around that, buy those no contract pre-paid phones and cards.
Well we have seen how the "not-paranoid" part has shifted from:
"the government is not watching everything I do"
"the government will not do anything with all the info they have on me"
I suppose you wouldn't mind giving up your 2nd Amendment rights too?
I tend to find that the Government do what they want to meet pre-determined agendum whether they have information or not.
I think businesses and retailers have much more to gain from understanding my habits and motives
Wow, Torch Concepts is a company here in Huntsville. I was wondering what they did.
Well said. I've had this same "I have nothing to hide, so why does it matter?" conversation with my wife a number of times and I'm still not sure that I've convinced her why our privacy rights are so important. Ironically, it's been movies like "The Net" that go a long way towards bridging this gap, even if they occasionally play fast and loose with the facts.
The NSA's "Echelon" capture of all electronic transmissions has been discussed on the web numerous times. There are three receiving stations. One in the US, one in England, and the third in either Australia or New Zealand; I disremember.
It's not "Web BS"; it's real.
The U.S. "right of privacy" is "not violated" because US transmissions are captured by the English government's receivers and the "pertinent conversations" are then "given" to the U.S. Government. Pardon me if I'm dubious...
Be that as it may, the technology and capability exists and a major raison d'etre for government is the gathering of information--whether or not it's truly useful. (Remember the questions on the Census long form?)
Sure, "I have nothing to hide," is just fine--if nobody gets suspicious of something you said that you thought was innocuous. "Oh, but that's a code!" is good enough for some prosecutors. Heck, look how often folks right here on this forum give statements a wrong meaning or intent.
You've never, in a teleconwith some friend, commented, "I'd like to kill that SOB!" as merely a vent? Or, if not kill, perpetrate some sort of major harm? Yet, no real intent beyond blowing off steam?
Regardless of innocence, how about the concept of "Mind your own (bleeping) business, not mine!"
i would think anyone who calls himself "dopefiend" has at least one activity he would want to hide from the feds.