2 Intelligent Gay Conservatives talk about marriage, tea-parties, role of govt.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by fivepoint, Aug 8, 2010.

  1. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEo4JEaBSgo

    Fantastic video. Agreed with almost every point. Why can't the tax structure be simpler? Why is the government involved in marriage? Why aren't gays allowed to be 'conservatives' inside of their social structure? Why can't government be smaller and less intrusive into our lives? Why do the liberals continue to spread lies about supposed bigotry in the tea party? (3:00)
     
  2. SwiftLives macrumors 65816

    SwiftLives

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    #2
    Because there is absolutely no political will to take on such an effort.

    For tax purposes. I can't think of any other reason.

    Do you spend a lot of time inside of the gay "social structure"? What makes you think that they can't be conservatives? Do the two gentlemen in the video represent all homosexuals in the USA?

    Smaller government doesn't necessarily equal better government. Capitalism is great in an ideal world with pure motivations. In practice, it needs to be regulated.

    Why aren't the Tea Partiers doing more to distance themselves from the racists in its ranks? Why aren't the Tea Partiers doing more to embrace diversity?

    And if you can issue blanket statements that cover all liberals, why can't liberals issue blanket statements that cover all Tea Partiers?
     
  3. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #3
    Intelligent?

    Are you sure?

    One asks why the government should be involved with marriage at all and then advocates civil unions.

    Ummm... if it's a Civil Union, then the government is going to be involved... as the authority under which that union's laws are based.

    I wish I watched past that point.

    But I wrote them off as idiots... and four minutes listening to idiots is just too much sometimes.




    It might surprise you to find out that there are conservative gays... and blacks... and Mexican-Americans.

    I know... it is amazing!
     
  4. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #4
    Apparently "intelligent" is Fivepoint talk for "agrees with me".
     
  5. william sire macrumors regular

    william sire

    #5
    It can be. There is no reason why it can’t be other than the established government which spends your money won’t have control to continue spending like they do if they have to answer to the people.
    Where the government is involved is because we have established an order in which to structure and enforce laws inherent to the responsibilities of marriage. But that has absolutely nothing to do with who marries who. That is where the people, specifically homosexuals, are demanding the government get involved to enforce their will. The two in the video are correct. Anyone can freely enter any contract of agreement they wish to. The union does not have to be marriage to get the same benefits of marriage, but that is still recognizing that the relationship is not equivalent to marriage. That is what the movement doesn’t want, and they are soliciting the government to force everyone else to give them that recognition where it serves the rest of us or them in fact nothing at all.
    Obviously the people in the video are so that question is moot.
    Because we keep asking that government to become larger and more intrusive.
    It’s called controlling the language. If they define the morals and christian principle as “bigotry” then every time someone attempts to affirm morals and christian principle they’ll be seen as a “bigot.”
     
  6. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #6
    Hold the front page! It's possible for gay men to be just as dumb as other men,who'd have thunk it.
     
  7. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #8
    It sure is. No argument there.
     
  8. freeny macrumors 68020

    freeny

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    #9
    Don't worry, when the conservatives win back controll and continue with these same policies he's arguing against, fivepoint won't have any issues with them.
     
  9. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    Truer words were never spoken.
     
  10. Queso macrumors G4

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    #11
    The man I refer to as my Psycho Ex From Hell was a complete Thatcherite, and even worked inside No. 10 for a while during the Thatcher era before going into lobbying.

    Obviously with him being my ex he was gay, as were many of the men that Thatcher surrounded herself with. Gay conservatives abound.

    With regards to why government is involved in marriage, it's because government sets laws and taxes, and those laws and taxes are affected by someone's martial status. There's a better argument for religion to get out of the marriage business to be honest.
     
  11. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #12
    I don't, but these guys do and I don't think any honest homosexual would disagree with their assessment that the gay social structure is very unfriendly to gay conservatives. Much like the black culture is very unfriendly to conservative blacks... accusations of being an 'uncle Tom,' etc. I love how everyone here just plugs their ears and yells 'lalala' at the top of their lungs after hearing these two guys clearly state that they were much more welcome in the Tea Party crowd than they were in the gay bar crowd. Interesting... but that can't be good for your agenda of hatred and labeling the Tea Party as a bunch of crazy gay-bashing rednecks, can it!?! IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE. Ignore these words, ignore that the tea party protests are non-violent unlike tons of major liberal protests.



    History proves you wrong.



    The federal government should not be involved in marriage, at all. Marriage is a religious institution. Taxes should be vastly simplified and people should file independently. Government should be dictating to no one whether or not they can marry.



    DING DING DING!



    Haha, yeah... because I NEVER criticized GWB, right!?!? Wow, you guys are really clinging/reaching. Funny, although not surprising, that you and Lee don't have anything of real value to add to the conversation (like an analysis of the two gentleman's words) instead of blanket baseless irrelevant accusations which resemble nothing more than trolling.
     
  12. Sdashiki macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

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    #13
    I stopped reading when he said "the liberals"

    Like they are some racial group of outcasts who all think alike, are alike and arent worth living.

    Nice 5P, nice.
     
  13. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #14
    Lee, I have a challenge for you.... Instead of your little one sentence degrading and non substantive quips, I challenge you to watch the video and refute their points one by one. C'mon you spend hours and hours in this forum participating in huge threads regarding the gay community where you actually add some value, but here, nothing but snarky stuff. Are you just ignoring these two? Do they not represent a larger group of gay conservatives? Are their viewpoints not valid? Where are they wrong, where are they right? Can you agree with them on anything? Lets hear something of real value from you, I'm sure you have some deep opinions on the issue.
     
  14. OllyW Moderator

    OllyW

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    #15
    No it isn't.
     
  15. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #16
    I see your point.

    It's actually a faster path to gay marriage than trying to work things through the courts and legislatures.

    All you need is a church that will marry gays.

    If not enough exist, people could always create new ones.

    Religious freedom could be a wonderful thing for gay marriage.
     
  16. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #17
    Not sure if you're trying to be funny or not... but yes, you're exactly right. If a church wants to 'marry' a gay couple, that's their right! Government should not be able to say who can and who can't marry. Individual consenting parties should be able to enter into legal agreements (unions) willingly and the government's attempt to manipulate society through complex tax structures should be done away with.
     
  17. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #18
    NO, IT ISN'T. No matter how many times he says that, it does not make it true.

    There are already tons of churches that will marry gay people. It's the government we're having trouble with.
     
  18. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #19
    Marriage, in the legal sense, is about a hell of a lot more than taxes. Is that all you right wingers ever care about? Taxes this, taxes that. There's more to marriage than taxes.
     
  19. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #20
    You're right, there is much more to taxes in the conservative handbook. There is also a lot of tax cuts.
     
  20. Queso macrumors G4

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    #21
    Where do marriages get dissolved? In a law court or the temple of choice? That should tell you everything about which institution really "owns" marriage.
     
  21. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #22
    It doesn't matter what aspect you're talking about, taxes, visitation rights, etc. the government shouldn't have any role. Individuals should have the right to enter into legal agreements as they see fit and marry in a religious institution with the willingness of said institution if they see fit.

    Where do legal agreements get dissolved, that should tell you everything. BTW, just so you can attempt to keep up, we're not talking about if government CURRENTLY has a role in marriage, we're talking about if they SHOULD have a role in marriage. Government SHOULD have a role (specifically the judicial branch) in ensuring the legality and ensuring justice between individual legal agreements.

    I find it glaringly obvious and laughably telling about the liberal response to this thread, when not a single poster here has replied with any substance to the actual men in the video, their viewpoints and thoughts on real topics. Instead, most likely due to extreme bias, shallow thought process, etc. you've attempted to simply attack me or any other generic conservative for our logical positions on this issue which would likely provide better results for everyone involved.

    Hilarious to see all of you simply ignore the content of the video because it doesn't fit in with your momentary agenda and your skewed perception of the Tea Party.
     
  22. Queso macrumors G4

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    #23
    You are doing the usual obfuscation between holy matrimony and marriage. Marriage does not belong to religion and historically doesn't either. Holy matrimony does, and religions are free to choose whoever they want to confer that on.

    But marriage is not theirs, never has been, and should not be in the future. Marriage IS the legal agreement between two people who wish to build their lives together. Everything else added to it is just window dressing.

    As for your post immediately above this one, have you actually considered that nobody is commenting because everyone sees it as perfectly OK for gay people to hold conservative views? Or does that contradict your persecuted worldview too much?
     
  23. Sdashiki macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

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    #24
    The Liberal Response?

    Gimme a break. You just cant help yourself.

    Like I know anyone personally in this topic...you act, always, like the world is against you and they are part of the BIG LIBERAL BIAS.
     
  24. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #25
    Good point. Since it is well documented that there is bigotry within the Tea Party, it is valid to say the Tea Partiers are bigots.
     

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