2011 — Arguments: the single highest known cause of homicide

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by citizenzen, Jul 27, 2014.

  1. citizenzen, Jul 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #1
    I was looking at the FBI Expanded Homicide Data Table 11 and a few things stood out to me.

    There was a category that easily outpaced gang-related homicides that I believe is a key to the problem in the U.S. and guns: arguments.

    In 2011, over 3 times more people were shot and killed in an argument (1,948) than are shot and killed in gang violence (619).

    Argument killings outpaced killings that occurred during felonies (1,271) which included the categories of rape, robbery, burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, arson, prostitution, sex offenses, narcotics, gambling and more.

    Argument killings were the single highest known cause of homicide.

    And this is one reason why I believe that more guns = more homicide, because people in the heat of emotion and rage cannot control their impulse to strike out. And when they have a gun, their ability to strike with lethal force is enhanced.

    We can't control whether people get into arguments. We can influence—as demonstrated by other countries—the weapon they reach for in the heat of one.
     
  2. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Location:
    NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
    #2
    It is true that arguments do cause LOTS of problems.

    But you can't really ban arguments.

    Just as you can't really ban handguns, or shotguns, nor do I think we should.

    I am all for Gun Control, but I don't know of any proposed law that would stop some married couple during an argument to shoot themselves.

    And yes, having a gun in a house does increase the chance of someone getting killed in an argument. Or a kid playing with them if they have parents that don't keep them locked up and aren't responsible.

    However, if someone broke into my home at night, having a shotgun in the bedroom vastly increases my chances of not being injured or killed.
     
  3. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #3
    I said, "We can't control whether people get into arguments."

    ----------

    Source please.
     
  4. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Location:
    NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
    #4
    Im not sourcing it, because it is my personal opinion.

    Weather or not it happens all over the country is not something I know.

    Here is what I do know, if someone breaks in a window, breaks down a door at 3AM, and doesn't leave when I yell at them.

    I am going to shoot them in the face.

    I'll take my own safety over a thief.

    What would you do? Ask nicely for them to leave?
     
  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #5
    Unarmed citizens could

    Pray
    Ask the criminal to leaVe
    Be a good victim
    Declare home a gun/crime free zone
    Take comfort in statistics that show not all home invasions are bad
    Plenty of other things they can do.
    their home/their choice. With firearm possession increasing the chance of murder/suicide/violence I fully support them making the best decision that suits them.
    I would say the odds of being the victim of a crime are rather small to begin with.

    Edit. Just woke up in San Diego. Family is not with me, but my Winchester 1300 is.
     
  6. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    #6
    I think the OP's point is dead on when talking about carrying in public.

    Here in NY. I see fights on a regular basis. Most fights end up being a comedy show, some get serious and bloody. I can't imagine if NY let everyone get an open carry or concealed carry permit, things would turn into chaos fast.

    In less populated and more rural places, I support carrying. But for large cities I don't. I also fully support having a weapon in home, although it should require at least a mandatory annual safety training class.
     
  7. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Location:
    NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
    #7
    I don't live in fear or anything, I have a very nice security system at both my homes that automatically dial the police, very nice locks, doors and windows.

    I don't live in fear of that happening.

    But I do like to keep a 12 gauge in the bedroom closet, just in case that ever were to happen.

    Lets say someone breaks in, the police aren't there yet.

    What am I supposed to do? Get killed?
     
  8. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

    Bug-Creator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Location:
    Germany
    #8
    Chances are the burglar allready was in other peoples houses.
    Chances are he stole some guns if those owners had similar thoughts than yours.
    Chances are he carries that gun with him when entering your house.
    Chances are he is better prepared for an armed houseowner than you are for an armed burglar.
     
  9. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Location:
    NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
    #9
    Yes, I live part time in NYC myself. I think everyone open carrying would be a disaster waiting to happen. Same with lots of people carrying concealed.

    I don't carry anymore, I've lived in some REALLY shady areas in my life. I carried then but not anymore.

    Yeah, I would be ok with that.

    I have a decent number of histrionic rifles and muskets, wanna go carry them into a Chiplote ;)

    FREEDOM!

    And yeah, I have weapons in my homes for home defense if something ever does happen, I have not carried in public for a LONG LONG time.

    ----------

    So rather than be prepared.... or at least try to do something?

    just get shot?

    Similar thoughts to mine?

    Besides the 12 gauge I keep in the bedroom closet in its own safe that I can rapidly open, all of my guns are locked in a safe that can't be easily opened or removed. The damn thing weighs about 1200 pounds and is bolted to the floor.
     
  10. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #10
    You don't need to go to that extreme.

    There are methods of preparation, protection and defense that don't involve firearms.
     
  11. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #11
    Cool. Hand over your valuables /wife/kids & let the guy do as he pleases with them:rolleyes:

    ----------

    Agreed. Pick the one that suits your family. Having a CHOICE is great. Don't like guns? Well simply don't buy one. Not ALL criminals are armed anyways
     
  12. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

    Bug-Creator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Location:
    Germany
    #12
    *shrug*

    Was just pointing out that the boat to sane restrictions on guns has been long gone in the US...

    Just to many guns in the hands of questional people, might as well go back to the wild west.
     
  13. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #13
    Mine sits next to the bed 24/7. Kids/wife know how to use it although the wife has never fired it

    ----------

    The definition of "sane" varies greatly. If YOU don't like guns YOU DON'T have to buy them, simple as that.
     
  14. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Location:
    NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
    #14
    Such as? I already have security systems that dial the police in both my more Rural and City homes. Good locks and doors, all that fun stuff.

    But

    Lets say, someone has busted into your house, with a knife, maybe a gun, or whatever.

    Are going to take your chances that police may not show up in time? Or that this intruder might have other ideas besides robbing you and hurting you or your family?

    Do you wait for the police? Who might not make it in time? ( At my main house, they won't for sure ), or do you pick up that weapon and do something about it?

    That shotgun I keep upstairs, is the last resort, not the first one.

    ----------

    I 100% support sane gun laws in the US of A.

    Such as reregistration and a universal background check, and safety classes.
     
  15. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

    Bug-Creator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Location:
    Germany
    #15

    Guess what, it's not about wether I can get a gun or not, but wether the crazy neighbour or the guy entering my house could get one easily :eek:
     
  16. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #16
    Ha. The U.S GOVT is arming cartels. Guns are stolen even taken away from cops. Make the CHOICE that fits you
     
  17. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Location:
    NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
    #17
    Ok, if he has one easily.

    Shouldn't I be able to have my shotgun to at least TRY to defend myself?

    Or should I offer the guy a spot of tea and a biscuit?
     
  18. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #18
    Awww come'on. Just hug the criminal that forced his way into your home & sing kumbaya songs.
    [/S

    ----------

    This is America. Try milk & Oreos instead:p
     
  19. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #19
    Let's look at the data

    Burglary — 92 (all weapons) .7% of all 2011 homicide

    Argument — 1,948 (firearms) over 15% of all 2011 homicide

    And as for the likelihood of such an incident ...

    The likelihood of being murdered in a burglary works out to 0.0042% of all burglaries.

    Those are the numbers. Correct them if there's any mistake.


    And btw, I really don't mind you having an opinion. It's just that your opinion was stated with such assuredness that I assumed there must be something behind it than just mere opinion. Just checking.
     
  20. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

    Bug-Creator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Location:
    Germany
    #20
    Allready done....

    ... just not going there :p
     
  21. Michael Goff macrumors G3

    Michael Goff

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    #21
    http://www.buzzle.com/articles/the-wild-west-of-myth-and-reality.html

    http://www.cracked.com/article_20372_5-ridiculous-myths-everyone-believes-about-wild-west_p2.html

    http://www.unpopulartruth.com/2009/04/myths-of-old-west.html
     
  22. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #22
    AWESOME numbers. Getting robbed/mugged is nearly like winning the lottery, guess those numbers would also be the equivalent of my chances if ever shooting a home intruder or mugger ? Cool. I like those odds

    As for arguments, those are easy to deal with, actually learned it when taking martial arts, walk AWAY , things are that simple
     
  23. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Location:
    NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
    #23
    Yes, I understand not a lot of murders take place that way.

    I don't care, at all. At all, at all.

    At all.

    I have good windows, locks and doors, I don't have any enemies in life, I have a very nice security system at both my homes that automatically calls the police.

    So I do it right.

    You are talking like the first thing I am gonna do is grab a gun and shoot someone for a thrill.

    Those weapons are a last resort, alarms are blaring, police are on their way, I'm shouting at him to get out, I don't hear him leaving.

    Even if its a remote chance of me being killed.

    If I am in a situation where I need to use that weapon to defend myself or my wife?

    You better your ass I'm going to use it.

    I also don't find the idea of killing someone very appealing, but if boiled down to a me or him situation.

    It's me, not him.
     
  24. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #24
    How do you "know" what level of preparation HE should have?
     
  25. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    #25
    In my experience most residential burglars target homes where the residents are gone. A residential burglar targeting an occupied home is extremely dangerous and could likely be reported as a robbery/home invasion rather than a burglary anyway.
     

Share This Page