2nd Amendment was only for muskets, you say?

lostngone

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When they penned the 2nd Amendment they were only talking about muskets, Right?
No one is trying to take all guns away, Right?
Clearly we all know the 2nd Amendment has "limits" but muzzleloaders surely must be protected under the 2nd Amendment after all they are single shot AND take anywhere from 20 seconds to a minute to reload...

Well this guy didn't get convicted of possessing a muzzleloader, he got convicted of possessing muzzleloader bullets!! For people who don't know what these are, they are just pieces of metal no gun power(no bang).

"District of Columbia judge found Mark Witaschek guilty of “attempted possession of unlawful ammunition” for antique replica muzzleloader bullets."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/26/miller-exclusive-shock-verdict-mark-witaschek-guil/#ixzz2x6eJ8ShP
 

MacNut

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What makes it unlawful?

This case does seem to be a little overboard, is there more to it? Or is DC just making an example out of this guy.
 

jonbravo77

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Feb 20, 2008
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So here is an expanded story to this guy brought to trial. TBH I do not know much about this web site I found this on but here is the link: http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/02/12/how-a-man-accused-of-threatening-his-wife-with/198027

In a search for a website that I knew more of they all say that the police have visited his house before but they don't say anything about what the above link says, just harps on the ammo issue and the SWAT style tactic the police used. So at this point you will have to draw your own conclusions.

Addition: The only thing I can think of is the shotgun he had may not have been a "registered" firearm according to D.C. law (which I do not live in D.C. so I do not know the law) and I believe depending on age of the muskets they may have needed to be registered as well. To much un-explained facts here to be able to determine why this guy was possibly targeted..
 
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lostngone

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What makes it unlawful?

This case does seem to be a little overboard, is there more to it? Or is DC just making an example out of this guy.
We need someone from DC to comment because I really don't know the law they busted him with.

I think they got him because he poured hot lead into a bullet shaped mold(see pic) rather then a ball shaped mold. So they calmed he had intent on loading it into a cartridge and then it would have been illegal. It is silly because if you wanted you could do the same with a ball.




EDIT:
Doing a little research, it appears it is illegal in DC to own ammunition for guns if you are not licensed to own them. I see flaws with this, in this case.

1. These are just pieces of metal(lead?), no powered, no cartridge, etc.
2. In D.C. not all types of Muskets have to be registered. I am sure if he had one of these types they would have nailed him for it not being registered.
 
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APlotdevice

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As a firm believer that gun ownership should be regulated, this definitely goes overboard.
 

bradl

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Jun 16, 2008
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Washington Times. Enough said.

Shock and awe, and over sensationalized in the process. Sorry, not buying it.

Report back with this story from a credible news source, then we'll talk. Until then, you've sensationalized the already over sensational.

BL.
 

lostngone

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Report back with this story from a credible news source, then we'll talk. Until then, you've sensationalized the already over sensational.
As per rules, I posted a source. If you don't like it, why did you even bother posting?
 

0007776

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This case does seem to be a little overboard, is there more to it? Or is DC just making an example out of this guy.
I think it is them going a bit overboard, but this law looks like it was written to avoid a lot of the loopholes that open up with trying to be too specific

It does look like the search was triggered by an accusation of domestic violence which while that was later thrown out I can't fault the police too much for being careful since as far as they knew at the time of the search there was a threat to someone.

Police based their search on a charge made by Mr. Witaschek’s estranged wife, who had earlier convinced a court clerk to issue a temporary restraining order against her husband for threatening her with a gun, although a judge later found the charge to be without merit
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/23/miller-dc-businessman-faces-two-years-jail-unregis/?page=all
 

MacNut

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I think it is them going a bit overboard, but this law looks like it was written to avoid a lot of the loopholes that open up with trying to be too specific

It does look like the search was triggered by an accusation of domestic violence which while that was later thrown out I can't fault the police too much for being careful since as far as they knew at the time of the search there was a threat to someone.



http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/23/miller-dc-businessman-faces-two-years-jail-unregis/?page=all
So the DA is a bully and not good at his job. This sounds a lot like a corrupt force
 

citizenzen

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Mar 22, 2010
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EDIT:
Doing a little research, it appears it is illegal in DC to own ammunition for guns if you are not licensed to own them. I see flaws with this, in this case.

1. These are just pieces of metal(lead?), no powered, no cartridge, etc.
2. In D.C. not all types of Muskets have to be registered. I am sure if he had one of these types they would have nailed him for it not being registered.
I'm trying to think ... how many round pieces of metal do I have that are made to fit a musket barrel ... that could be loaded into a musket and propelled through the barrel to serve as potentially lethal bullet.

Sorry. Can't think of one.

I guess your guy was just unlucky to have those round pieces of metal in his home .... one's that would properly fit a musket and serve as bullets.

Such bad luck.

:rolleyes:
 

SLC Flyfishing

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I'm trying to think ... how many round pieces of metal do I have that are made to fit a musket barrel ... that could be loaded into a musket and propelled through the barrel to serve as potentially lethal bullet.

Sorry. Can't think of one.

I guess your guy was just unlucky to have those round pieces of metal in his home .... one's that would properly fit a musket and serve as bullets.

Such bad luck.

:rolleyes:
I have a number of household items containing steel ball bearings. Such as could be loaded into a muzzle loaded weapon and fired shotgun style. There are plenty of other things that could be used in a similar fashion.

Now you'll have to excuse me, some men claiming to be ATF agents are trying to kick in my front door.

:rolleyes:
 

citizenzen

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Mar 22, 2010
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I have a number of household items containing steel ball bearings. Such as could be loaded into a muzzle loaded weapon and fired shotgun style.
That would not work. You would still need the larger musket ball ...

Buck and ball

Buck and ball was issued in paper cartridges that combined the projectiles with the black powder propellant charge to facilitate rapid loading of the weapon. The buckshot would set in front of the ball, so that the ball would act as a gas seal for the buckshot. Like any other paper cartridge, the rear of the cartridge would be torn open to expose the powder, which would be loaded, and the remaining paper, balls, and buckshot would be rammed down on top.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_and_ball
Correction. This from wikipedia ...

Muskets could also fire smaller lead pellets called lead shot or buckshot, which struck a wider area but with less force than a single lead ball. Round balls could be combined with buckshot to produce buck and ball ammunition, which combined the wider area of attack of shot with the large mass of the round ball.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket
Good luck with the ATF.
 
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NT1440

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May 18, 2008
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I love posts like these. I feel like the people who are "up in arms" about the ATF act like it's knocking down doors left and right. Yet somehow they seem to fall into the same party that has no problem with the "law and order" SWAT tactics becoming the normal type of policing...but only when it comes to drug enforcement.
 

NT1440

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May 18, 2008
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We'll just chalk this up to yet another person who knows nothing about guns, and is therefore scared of them.
I'm sorry but what does knowing about the history, terminology, or culture of gun ownership have to do with anything?

From a physics standpoint all I see is a tube that when pointed at a person and a pull of a finger can release enough energy in such a concentrated form that it will do horrible damage to whatever it hits. With that in mind I'd like to see this country be safer about guns, especially when it comes to how they are handled in the home with children.

But in your black and white world that means I'm afraid and think al guns should be taken away right? :rolleyes:
 

SLC Flyfishing

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I'm sorry but what does knowing about the history, terminology, or culture of gun ownership have to do with anything?

From a physics standpoint all I see is a tube that when pointed at a person and a pull of a finger can release enough energy in such a concentrated form that it will do horrible damage to whatever it hits. With that in mind I'd like to see this country be safer about guns, especially when it comes to how they are handled in the home with children.

But in your black and white world that means I'm afraid and think al guns should be taken away right? :rolleyes:
1. People who know the least about guns are generally the strongest opposers of private gun ownership.

2. Can't argue there.

3. Depends on what you think getting to "safer" means/entails.
 

NT1440

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May 18, 2008
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1. People who know the least about guns are generally the strongest opposers of private gun ownership.

2. Can't argue there.

3. Depends on what you think getting to "safer" means/entails.
1. Source/evidence/anything other than your own self reinforcing views as you spout your own echo-chamer views?

2. Glad we agree on the facts of physics, thats a start.

3. I'd like to see responsible gun ownership have a focus on locking guns up in the home, not this BS "my 5 year old is smart enough to know that guns can kill, I trained them right" crap I hear spouted here all the time. Kids don't have those mental capabilities, thats just a neurological fact and no amount of "I was raised right" hubris is going to change it.