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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by fivepoint, Jan 7, 2011.
I had no idea abortions were anywhere near that high!
Anyway, I don't think this is such a terrible thing at all. Much better for those women to wait until they want a baby.
Those numbers are a lot higher than I expected. I can't imagine what the women in the most desperate of situations would do if the procedure was made illegal.
Then they should use condoms, birth control pill, etc to prevent a pregnancy. Abortions should not be used as a form of birth control, but something to be used sparingly in case birth control did fail, raped, incest, or the fetus threatens the life of the mother.
Well first and foremost, it's a woman's choice as it is her body. But to get to the point where you're talking about that means we need to reform sex education, move away from abistince only sex education, make BC more redily available, make condoms more readily available, and generally focus on preventative measures.
People have been reluctant to make these changes and this is a direct result of that.
I'm curious what numbers they include to pad the outcome? For example, if a woman has a pregnancy that is not viable but must resort to a DNC to remove the undeveloped embryo, does that count as an abortion? And how many of that number were developing embryos with serious birth defects?
Some more detailed figures would be helpful here.For instance NY city and NY state have historically had relatively straight forward laws and provide the least barriers for women who require an abortion in the U.S. therefore figures for out of state women may well represent a higher percentage than in other places.
I'm not so sure about that. I'm of the same thought as the previous poster. To say that condoms, at the very least, need to be made more available be in NYC is a bit naive. There are deli's and bodegas on every corner. They are very, very easy to find 24/7.
If a decent percentage of these pregnancies are "accidents" then they should face some sort of consequence and not just bail themselves out with an abortion.
If they are old enough to have sex, and can figure that part out, it shouldn't be difficult to figure out a way to prevent it. At the very least run to the corner store and pick up a box of condoms. This isn't some country town where the nearest walmart is 40 miles away.
So you'd rather take immature people that have little in the way responsibility be forced to care for a child they didn't want ? What kind of life is that for the child ?
Life at all costs! Quality be damned.
An abortion is not all roses, it is already a very big consequence to the woman. Men talking about things they know nothing about.
Reviewing the NY Public Health's report, I can't figure out how they arrived at the 39% of pregnancies end in "induced termination."
Table 4.17 notes 214,454 pregnancies ≥28 weeks, 87,273 of which were terminated.
However, Table 4.13 notes 225,667 pregnancies 11,620 which were terminated.
These percentages: 40.69 and .05 are different than the summary report, which notes the 39 percent number.
Also, the report does not discriminate between medically-required induced terminations or voluntary terminations according to the technical notes and the city's EVERS database.
Boy, it's amazing how people only pick up on what they want to hear instead of the impressive reduction of abortions. It's even more remarkable when you consider NYC is one of the least affordable cities in the US. It's not at all hard to believe that where the cost of living is so high, women choose not to have a child.
I'm curious about how many people from outlying regions go into the city for abortion services, thus inflating the percentages. In addition, I wonder how many city dwellers leave the city to go to an outlying, less crowded hospital for childbirth.
May not be an issue, but it might affect the percentages a small amount.
So I assume you're a woman who knows what she's talking about.
I'm not a man, I'm a woman. And I'm pro-choice. But I'm also pro making the right decision. And by consequence in no way did I mean keeping and raising the baby. I also have seen first hand the consequence of abortion. My point was to take actions to not get to that point in the first place. What will being able to take the easy way out teach anyone? And by easy way out, i'm not saying abortion is easy. How about carrying the baby for 40 weeks and then adopting out. As someone who has done it (with twins) make a woman go through that once and let's see how fast they remember a condom.
I was very Pro-Choice until my wife got pregnant and I saw my unborn Daughter moving on the ultrasound and heard her heartbeat. I don't support legalized Murder anymore except under very strict conditions. There is no argument someone can make that will convince me that there is not a living person growing inside a woman. I don't think it should be completely illegal but a woman should have to undergo a rigorous interview process before an abortion should be allowed.
I agree it is a woman's choice because it is her body, but I am not in favor of using abortion as a form of birth control. A couple shouldn't just go, " Why use a condom and the pill if we can just get an abortion if pregnancy happens". Abortion should be used only as a last resort when all else has failed and in cases in rape, incest, and the life of the mother is in danger. And as the law states already, you have to do it by a certain time because I view life starting when the fetus's vital organs start to function.
Because adopted children all live fine and dandy lives where they never seek out their birth parents and are never disappointed or never feel like they were rejected right ?
No one is arguing against education to make abortions go down. In fact, the article points out that abortions are down 16% compared to pregnancies that are down 8%, showing definitive signs of improvments on that front. Don't mistake the OP's bias in all of this and his failure to portray the facts correctly.
The point is, you never mentionned the "consequences" you wanted these people to face and as such left that part of your post up to interpretation. Now you faced the consequences of that, next time you know you need to be clearer when saying people "should face consequences!".
That's fine, then you can adopt, raise and care for the children that people are forced to have because they got "rejected" at the interview portion. Or is putting your time/money where your mouth is too complicated ?
Easy to insult and make fun of people instead of actually participating in the discussion ? A couple I know had to go through with an abortion because their birth control failed (chance in a million). The woman felt like **** for weeks, couldn't work, couldn't go out. When a woman tells me I don't know what an abortion is like, I defer to her indeed.
So if you're a woman and you want to tell me it's like brushing your teeth, go ahead, but until then, I've seen some of the consequences women go through and I've been told I can't understand it and agree with that. Hence why I remind the fine folks of MacRumors that would want to propose tons of solutions to this that they don't know squat about it if they aren't of the feminin gender.
Its the baby's body too.
And I bet it's no longer just a woman's responsiblity if she decides to keep the kid right? Then the man suddenly is an important part of the picture, right. Well, just his wallet, usually....
Who said anything about forcing them to raise the child? My life is full of adopted children, both by friends and family. Men talking about things they know nothing about? What an absolutely ignorrant thing to say.... Just because men can't get pregnant, they have no rights? No say in life and death decisions. OK, I'll play that game. Men no nothing about that...good, then if you get pregnant and want to keep the kid, then don't go knocking on any man's door, making him pay child support. Sorry, miss, I don't know nothing about no babies....
Only 39%? Should be mandatory.
You got it.
Shall I also be clearer with my gender so readers such as yourself don't assume that it would have anything to do with my response?
I mean, what's the point of being more clear if assumptions will be made anyway?
I do appreciate the lesson though. And I will put myself in a corner to think about whatever consequences I have faced.
i think its a fairy world people live in if they believe the decision to have an abortion is something someone takes lightly. im not going to say outright that no single woman has never used abortion as her BC however abortions are a costly and serious procedure so i seriously doubt the numbers who do or have done this are ridiculously low and do not merit mention.
lastly, i see nothing wrong with abortion. nyc has no shortage of people, believe me, a new yorker. we get *taxed* new ways in hopes to support our population. fact is we are stretched thin trying to keep funding for our many programs that assist many souls and their spawn that live there. i say there because im not physically in new york at the moment.
They aren't being forced to have children because their abortion request got rejected. They are being forced to have children because the human body is designed to create new life when it engages in intercourse and they chose to ignore that fact.
I know adopted people too. Some of them didn't have the easiest of lives and still struggle to this day with feelings of rejection. The problem with giving a child up for adoption is that not every adoption is dandy and results in a well balanced individual.
Sometimes the right choice is to abort at an early stage. To deny that choice to people is putting the quality of life of a child at risk. Unless you're ready to take care of all the children and make sure they all turn out alright yourself ?
I was talking strictly about abortions and their already heavy consequences on the woman. A fact you obviously missed, even though I was quite clear. Men, no matter what or what rights they think we have, can never start to even discuss the consequences of an abortion on a woman's body.
Except when of course all precautions have been taken, the people are well educated on the matter and yet the Birth control failed.
Would you then take care of the children that result from such pregnancies that wouldn't go through the interview process and would be refused an abortion ? If not, you have no place in trying to restrict abortions.
I hate discussing children with parents, they are the most irrational people when it comes to kids.