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Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
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CNet reports that a consortium has formed regarding 3D-Display standards:

Several high-tech companies including Sony and Sanyo have officially unveiled a consortium to create technical and safety standards for bringing three-dimensional displays to desktops, laptops and cell phones.

Apple was is rumored to be working on "Stereoscopic" displays which has presumed to be related technology.
 

phampton81

macrumors member
Jul 24, 2002
78
0
Stereoscopic refers to a 'virtual' 3-d image right? Just a 2d image that appears to have 3 dimensions? I could be just making this up though.
 
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jeffberg

macrumors member
Nov 6, 2001
36
0
Originally posted by phampton81
Stereoscopic refers to a 'virtual' 3-d image right? Just a 2d image that appears to have 3 dimensions? I could be just making this up though.

I think stereoscopic refers to some sort of 3d experience without making the screen blurry or distorted when used without 3d glasses.
 
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drkatzny

macrumors newbie
Mar 6, 2003
2
0
It is a real stereoscopic 3d experience, which means that each eye sees a slightly different image and your brian creates the sensation of depth.

There are many kinds of stereoscopic representation that all require special viewing glasses, and one kind that doesn't: lenticular 3d. This technique you see all the time on the cover of children's books, or on keychains. Those bumpy plastic pyramids that create somewhat blury 3d depending on how you tilt the card or the head. This is also the same technology for those images that change when you tilt the picture back and forth, like an eye winking, or the shroud of turin turning into jesus (an amusing but all too common application of lenticular lenses).

These montiors use a parralax filter that is similar to the lenticular lense. I haven't seen them in person so i don't know how blury they are, but the must require your head to be centered in front of the monitor. I've never heard of any way to make lenticular 3d clear, but perhaps they have found a way. Images can't really appear to come out of the screen like they can with other stereoscopic techniques. Also, they cannot appear to recede as far into the distance.

I love 3d and i can't wait to see these monitors, but i think the technology still has a long way to go. On the plus side, QuartzExtreme, OS X's rendering engine is already an OpenGL 3D rendered environment so the switch to stereoscopic viewing should be relatively easy on the software side.

DKNY
 
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richie

macrumors member
Jul 16, 2002
91
0
Melbourne, Australia
From what I've heard of 3d displays, since they're basically tricking the eyes into perceiving something incorrectly (by displaying slightly different images to each eye, I think), they tend to cause migraines and eye-strain over any extended period of use. I guess that's where the "safety standards" to be implemented come into play :) As the poster above mentioned, the head needs to be centred in the middle of the screen to see the effect, and a lot of work would have to go into somehow tracking a user's location or developing a better, more flexible way of producing the images, before 3d displays could be used on a large scale - who sits straight in front of their screen constantly?

It sounds like a difficult technology to mass produce reliably too, if it's done in that way. Good luck to the consortium and designers, I think they'll need it :)
 
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CraigStanton

macrumors newbie
Mar 4, 2003
7
0
New Zealand
I've seen some semi-3D monitors in action (shameless plug) developed here in NZ(/plug).

It seemed to be an LCD with another flat screen hovering in front of it. The the front screen was completly clear when not used and could fade all the way to solid color when in use. It was just playing a demo reel and they had some fake games on display. It looked very cool to have near by obbject and a slightly different distance to those that were supposed to be far off. Aqua would look stunning like that
 
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percepto

macrumors newbie
Mar 7, 2003
1
0
I've seen one.

I saw one of these stereoscopic 3D flat panel LCDs running on a windows machine. Its pretty cool because you didn't need any goggles or extra equipment to see the 3D effect.

You sit a certain distance away, and centered in front of the screen. There was a "sweet spot" where everything looked correct, and it was a bit hard to maintain. The monitor had a red diode that glowed bright if you were in the right spot, or else appeared dim. If you looked at the screen from the side, images on the screen looked a bit goofy because they had shadows.

The screen felt "ridgy" to the touch because it had a triangular corrugated surface which cast light off the screen at two slightly different angles. When positioned in the "sweet spot", the two images go to the two eyes (with little cross-overlap) and the images appear to have depth.

Pretty cool technology, but not quite ready for prime time. Also, I think that it was quite expensive.

~percepto javascript:smilie(':)')
 
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Dail

macrumors newbie
Mar 7, 2003
1
0
NZ
Yeah I used to work as a software developer for that company in NZ making multilayered displays. Basically they are two LCD panels seperated by a clear material. Anything white on the fron screen is clear, then progressively gets more opaqe the darker you go.

An interesting screen to develop for. You can create some amazing effects and its a great monitor for data visualisation etc. Good to develop on, as basically you have two monitors in the space of one monitor. Just jumping down and up between monitor panes takes some getting used to. We programmed our mice to jump the mouse to the opposite screen when using the middle mouse button. Worked really well.

Go to to the below link and check em if you wana see what they are like. Watch the flash intro (if its still there and you will get an idea of what they do)MLD monitors
 
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drkatzny

macrumors newbie
Mar 6, 2003
2
0
NZ 2-monitor thingy

I haven't seen the two-monitor set-up from NZ that a couple people have mentioned here, but it does not sound like the same type of technology to me. (hereto referred as the NZ Monitor Shameless Self-Promotion or NZMSS).

For one thing, the NZMSS implies there are only two levels of depth on the screen. This wouldn't be a real 'stereoscopic' viewing. It would be layered viewing and the only perception of depth would be the difference between the two monitors. This could still be a cool effect, but not true stereoscopic 3d.

Second, in stereo 3d, the eye must be unable to tell that there is a difference between the two pictures. Each eye is presented a picture that look more or less exactly the same, then the brain combines the differences and produces depth-cues from the subtle differences in the pictures. It appears from the description that the front monintor changes it's opacity to reveal the monitor behind.

The 3d technology is based on the idea that if your head is centered directly in front of the monitor, because of the paralax filter, each eye will see a complete and separate full-screen. In the lenticular process, imagine you are looking at the top view of a pyramid. The right eye will see the right side of the pyramid better, and the left eye will see the left side better. Your distance from the page and the shape of the pyramids will determine how fuzzy the image is.

An obvious drawback with lenticular 3d is that there is a little "cross-over" in the images which is what leads to the fuzziness (the left eye can often see a little bit of the right image, for example).

I wish the best of luck to all NZ monitor companies. I am almost certain the NZMSS described above is a different technology though.

DKNY
 
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iMook

macrumors regular
Mar 7, 2003
168
0
I've heard of the displays which direct alternating columns in two different directions, but the problem with this, is that you need a monitor which has double the resolution of a normal monitor, but still have the same dimensions (eg. 17" diagonal, 15" diagonal). As was said earlier, this kind of technology is still not ready for primetime.
 
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hvfsl

macrumors 68000
Jul 9, 2001
1,856
165
London, UK
I have seen a wide screen version of a 3D monitor in person, it was being shown off in a store in London (although you couldn't buy it). It was about two years ago now and I cant remember much about it except I think it was maded by Philips. It had an image of a fish on it that a thought looked very 3D and not very blurry as some people have being saying in these forums.
 
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etoiles

macrumors 6502a
Jun 12, 2002
827
5
Where the air is crisp
I have seen some amazing '3D screens' at E3 (Los Angeles) last year. They are being developed by a German company (http://www.4d-vision.de) and work from pretty much any viewing angle or distance. They use the 'prism sheet' technique, like those little flipping images you get in cereal boxes...only the 'prisms' have more than two sides (at least to my understanding).

Apparently, the monitors are standard LCD screens, the only tricky part is to perfectly align the sheet and the mask of the screen. And it is also pretty heavy on the graphics card, since the computer has to generate something like 7 or 9 (can't remember) images for every stereoscopic frame.
 
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Timothy

macrumors 6502
Jan 2, 2002
473
0
Seattle, WA
Assuming that these monitors will be substantially more expensive than current monitors...why should I care about this? Can anyone think of any practical use for this technology?

I am convinced that part of the slow down in Tech is the focus on the gee whiz factor of tech, rather than focusing on the ease-of-use factor of computing.

This certainly seems like a technology with little to no pre-existing market. But, perhaps I am missing the point?
 
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etoiles

macrumors 6502a
Jun 12, 2002
827
5
Where the air is crisp
Originally posted by Timothy

This certainly seems like a technology with little to no pre-existing market. But, perhaps I am missing the point?

No pre-existing market ??? What about the market that drives most of the PC sales: GAMING !
(and of course 3d design/visualisation in general)
 
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Toe

macrumors 65816
Mar 25, 2002
1,101
2
3D iPad?

Well then, let's put it all together...

I predict that by May 1, 2003, Apple will unveil a 5"x7", 3-dimensional, handwriting-recognizing, speech-recognizing, cellular-phone-enabled, bluetooth and 802.11g talking, G4-based tablet.

Anyone have any evidence to the contrary?

:p
 
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scem0

macrumors 604
Jul 16, 2002
7,028
1
back in NYC!
Re: 3D iPad?

Originally posted by Toe


Anyone have any evidence to the contrary?

:p

nope, but I still think it would be a bad move for apple.

As for the display - it sounds awesome. But only if it is affordable.

;)
 
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GeneR

macrumors 6502a
Jan 2, 2003
708
0
The land of delusions, CA.
I guess it would s*ck for people with only one eye.

I think this is a great technology which will probably come out at some point but do better by first migrating to HDTV sets before computer monitors. Staring at the screen all day already give a lot of people tired eyes, even with LCDs. However, if they could make a 3D-stereoscopic screen, how would that affect our GUI's? How about 3D rotating icons which have more than one function depending on which directing it is facing? Hmmm.

And what about those people with only one eye? :D
 
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etoiles

macrumors 6502a
Jun 12, 2002
827
5
Where the air is crisp
Re: 3D iPad?

Originally posted by Toe
Well then, let's put it all together...

I predict that by May 1, 2003, Apple will unveil a 5"x7", 3-dimensional, handwriting-recognizing, speech-recognizing, cellular-phone-enabled, bluetooth and 802.11g talking, G4-based tablet.

Anyone have any evidence to the contrary?

:p

you forgot the 'bubblebathandbackscrub' feature...:D
 
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usersince86

macrumors 6502
Oct 24, 2002
377
751
Columbus, Ohio
Originally posted by iMook
Science is my religion. Which is better, you blind faith or mine?

That's a subjective question, but I'll choose my "blind faith" in God over "blind faith" in science. By the way, God and science are not in conflict, IMHO.

:)

(If you want, see Hebrews chapter 11 re. faith - you're right, by definition, it is blind!)
 
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rubikcube

macrumors newbie
Jan 20, 2002
27
0
Re: 3D iPad?

Originally posted by Toe
Well then, let's put it all together...

I predict that by May 1, 2003, Apple will unveil a 5"x7", 3-dimensional, handwriting-recognizing, speech-recognizing, cellular-phone-enabled, bluetooth and 802.11g talking, G4-based tablet.

Anyone have any evidence to the contrary?

:p

What about getting my coffee in the morning? Speech recognizing? Why not mind reading? Wouldn't that be better? G4? Why not 2 or 4 procs? It should also negotiate real estate deals for me.
 
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KingArthur

macrumors regular
Jun 15, 2001
236
0
Marion, Ohio
Remember the recent articles about Apple and their monitor speech-recognition algorythms? I would bet to see these new 3D monitors include this technology so that they would have not only 3D tech but have improved speech recognition for automated tasks. I would also bet that Apple would have a feature to turn off the 3D feature.

Also, I was thinking about something. Since the ADC carries USB signals to and from the monitor, wouldn't it make sense that the speech recognition capabilities be carried to the computer digitally via the USB bus? Apple hates analog, so I am betting this.
 
Comment

Timothy

macrumors 6502
Jan 2, 2002
473
0
Seattle, WA
Originally posted by etoiles
No pre-existing market ??? What about the market that drives most of the PC sales: GAMING !
(and of course 3d design/visualisation in general)

Indeed, I did overlook this possible application. It would seem, however, that this market, but for the small niche of fanatics, would be unwilling to spend what I imagine a screen such as this would cost relative to a flat-screen monitor. And, subsequently, that niche market would be so small such as to not entice many game developers to devote the significant resources that I suspect would be required to enhance their games in this way.

But, I concede that such an application would have some rather cool utility.

Any reason beyond gaming that is seen?
 
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