42 Days and the Threat to our Liberty

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Queso, Jun 7, 2008.

  1. Queso macrumors G4

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    #1
    Ex-Prime Minister John Major yesterday nearly summarised perfectly* my feelings regarding the current Government's push to increase the number of days suspects can be held in in the UK without charge to a beyond-ridiculous 42 days. The following article was published in The Times. Wordy, but worth a read:-

    The UK Parliament votes on whether to further remove human rights from the people of this country in the name of security on Wednesday.


    * I disagree without doubt that even raising to 28 days was justified.
     
  2. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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  3. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

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    #3
    Out of interest, what would you have as the limit, and why?
     
  4. Queso thread starter macrumors G4

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    #4
    Along with Shami Chakrabarti, the director of human rights group Liberty, I believe that the ABSOLUTE maximum should be seven days.

    Under the current Blair/Brown Government there was been a steady erosion of personal liberty and the right to protest. When protesting pensioners are arrested under the Prevention of Terrorism Act it proves that we should be extremely reluctant to give either the Government or the Police more powers, since they have been proven to happily abuse those powers given the opportunity. Internet file sharers are even being prosecuted under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, another piece of Blair genius supposedly designed to combat terrorism.

    Hundreds of years of hard-fought civil rights are being flushed away by a weak Government desperate to appear strong on something.
     
  5. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

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    #5
    Yes, she was on QT last night but seemed a little uncertain as to her choice of limit. I think it's an interesting debate- how exactly do we come up with the right number of days to balance personal liberty vs public security?

    Certainly 42 days is too much for political brownie-points, I'll grant.
     
  6. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #6
    I'd be interested to hear how long it usually takes to produce the evidence necessary to charge a suspect. If the Canadians can do it in 24 hours, I'd think that we could too. If not, then maybe the arrests are premature.
     
  7. JG271 macrumors 6502a

    JG271

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    #7
    I believe it is the civil contingencies act that can, in extreme situations, extend the current time by 30 days anyway?

    I don't think we are going to have a need to hold someone for 42 days without charge. Its another Government 'Insurance Policy' as they say, but as was pointed out on question time on thursday night, so was the Iraq war as the article states.

    I agree with this article, and the views of Shami Chakrabarti and the Liberal democrats on this issue; a week is long enough. I have faith in the police that if such an event arrises they can bring a charge on the suspect in that time.
     
  8. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #8
    If the USA can do it in 48 hours, why would we need a week?
     
  9. Queso thread starter macrumors G4

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    #9
    Sadly they don't only take 48 hours though. The suspect simply disappears off to the Caribbean where US law no longer applies....


    ...apparently.

    However, I totally agree. What is it with the UK security services that mean they need 21x the amount of time to gather evidence that their German or South African counterparts do? Are our people really that bad at their jobs? :confused:
     
  10. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #10
    The older I get the more I agree with this oddly enough.

    I think I'm turning into a Tory. :eek:
     
  11. Queso thread starter macrumors G4

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    #11
    Don't panic. More than likely it's just the same New Labour fatigue virtually everyone in the country is now feeling. Once we have a Tory Government you'll soon start hating them again.
     
  12. JG271 macrumors 6502a

    JG271

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    #12
    Perhaps the procedure for making a charge is different here and therefore takes longer for all the paperwork and legal issues.
    Maybe there is greater scrutiny on the police here than in other countries, so the police must be careful to have followed the right procedures.
    I don't know, i'm not an expert, but this may be reasons for a week to be justified.
     
  13. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #13
    Speaking for Canada, 24 hours is not enough in this day and age. How can you get DNA results in that short a time??

    From the other side, of presumptive guilt, at least when our courts let them loose they will have served, hopefully, 42 days. :rolleyes:
     
  14. JG271 macrumors 6502a

    JG271

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    #14
    MI5 has not asked for 42 day detention, it now appears. The police have, but they haven't pushed this issue like they quite often do; The EU is against the measure. It would seem that most people are against the government on this one!
     
  15. Queso thread starter macrumors G4

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    #15
    Everyone with the exception of Westminster point scorers. Why does this not surprise me? :rolleyes:
     
  16. BoyBach macrumors 68040

    BoyBach

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    #16
    I'm not concerned about the proposed extension. Even if the Labour Whips manage to coerce enough support to get it through the Commons, the Lords will not support it.

    (I sometimes wonder what is happening in politics when a lefty, liberal like me finds myself thinking that the Conservative Party are talking more sense than the Labour Party. But that's for another thread.)
     
  17. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #17
    DNA results aren't necessary to press charges.
     
  18. djellison macrumors 68020

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    #18
    Making changes to our laws to accommodate terrorist activities, is handing the terrorists a victory.

    Sadly, my MP is a spineless Labour gimp who voted yes to an extension to 90 days. He spends more time asking questions about bloody lacrosse than anything else ( http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ is very useful )

    Doug
     
  19. J@ffa macrumors 6502a

    J@ffa

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    #19
    Unfortunately, the public is as craven as the Government on this one;

     
  20. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #20
    Fear is the number one reason to destroy liberty in a society.

    Looks like we are letting the terrorists win.

    Shame really that no one has realised that even while we are fighting in Iraq / Afghanistan the terrorists are doing more to destroy the liberties of our society at home just by posting a few videos on the web.
     
  21. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #21
    I am extremely happy with my MP's voting record.
    sk.jpg
    I can only hope enough Labour MPs exhibit enough spine to resist.
     
  22. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

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    #22
    Wow, that is impressive... It almost restores my faith in British politics.
     
  23. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #23
    When govts start running off of fear rather then common sense your lost. The Terrorist win when they start making you act as they do. Hey here is a idea lets treat everyone as a terrorist and hold them forever. BIG BROTHER. UK is lost, you have no freedom or liberty and are running around scared because the morons who run your country was happy to import a islamic society and the problems that come with its extremists.

    Here in the U.S. we are loosing our identity because we are importing Mexicans by the millions. At this rate Spanish will become our national language.

    2 examples of broken govts who put $$$ first.

    Holding people for 42 days with no recall rights or freedom? Communist,Nazi's,Dictatorships all have about the same thing in common meaning the people have no rights.
    UK needs a revolution by its people, watch us here in America because we have just started one and it begins with removing these power morons who run govt. Say bye bye to Republicans running anything here in U.S. They wont control any branch of our govt come the next election. Were sick of this FEAR crap the republicans sold.

    Lets see first we allow anyone in the country then we take away everyones rights because of this. UK needs to WAKE UP!
     
  24. JG271 macrumors 6502a

    JG271

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    #24
    I completely agree.
    and yeah, thats a great website, i'm very glad that sort of information is available for all to see.
     
  25. Nickygoat macrumors 6502a

    Nickygoat

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    #25
    Interestingly enough my MP, Gorgeous George, isn't quite as radical as he would like to be portrayed:

    Can we swap Skunk? Or can I just live with you? :D
     

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