70 years ago today: the US Army reaches the Elbe

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaronvan, Apr 25, 2015.

  1. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #1
  2. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #2
    Yes, its well known that those darn Russkies got the easy part of beating the Nazis.

    Historical commemorations are great. But don't let them get in the way of a better understanding of what really happened.
     
  3. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    Hey, I cited a Russian web site. Whaddya want alreddy?
     
  4. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    Do enlighten us on what "really happened".
     
  5. caesarp macrumors 6502a

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    He's pointing out that the Russians took the bulk of the casualties and did the bulk of the fighting against hitler. But hitler didn't invade the U.S., so we didn't have to push German armies out of half of the U.S. And the russians were pushing the U.S. to open the 2d front earlier than we did with d day.

    But we let the Russians have the "glory" of taking Berlin and they raped their way across eastern Germany.
     
  6. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    Or that the decision was made to go Wehrmacht Hunting due to the absolute failure of operation Market Garden. Knowing that the would likely be another 100,000 casualties in the capture of Berlin, they decided not to try and take it ;)
     
  7. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    70 years ago today, the U.S. Sixth Army reaches Baguio

    On April 27th, in the Pacific Theater, the Sixth Army captured Baguio. Fighting continued until August 15th, when General Yamashita and his remaining army of 50,000 surrendered.

    http://www.history.army.mil/brochures/luzon/72-28.htm
     
  8. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    And just 40 years ago, On 30th April the US had to quickly leave Saigon, via the roof of the US embassy.
     
  9. decafjava macrumors 68000

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    #9
    FWIW, the US were in favour of opening a second front in France as early in 1942. The British (recalling Gallipoli perhaps) were opposed, promoting an indirect strategy (North Africa, Med and Italy) they finally authorised a raid on Dieppe to mollify Russian and Us pressure at Dieppe which was a fiasco especially for the Canadian troops involved.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieppe_Raid

    Anyway, a second front in 1942 would have been foolish while the u-boat threat was not contained - and the Luftwaffe was still strong in Western Europe.

    Still, the German army was broken and suffered the most casualties facing the Soviets, that is clear.
     
  10. vrDrew, Apr 28, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015

    vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    Also on this date: The Port Arthur Massacre.

    A developmentally-disabled 28 yr old man killed 35 people and wounded 23 more with variety of semi-automatic rifles, handguns, and shotguns. To date it ranks as one of the worst single-person mass killings in history.

    Following the outrage, bipartisan support allowed Australia's Conservative Prime Minister, John Howard, to overcome the resistance put up by pro-gun groups (including our old friends the US National Rifle Association) and passed laws in every Australian State and Territory, outlawing the possession or ownership of a wide variety of auto-loading weapons. Ultimately almost 3/4 million weapons are turned in, and roughly $600,000,000 was paid in compensation to owners.

    Amazingly enough, violent crime in Australia did not increase as a result. And homicides involving firearms, not surprisingly decreased significantly. I look forward to the corresponding spate of NRA sponsored lies and half-truths.

    Looks like our Aussie friends could teach us Yanks a thing or two.
     
  11. snberk103 macrumors 603

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    I seem to recall that there were a couple of other countries involved in that war... ;) Not to downplay the valuable contribution made by the US to the war effort in anyway...

    When I am visiting my US relatives if the topic of the war comes up I'm still surprised when they talk about it beginning in 1942. And I quietly and smugly smirk internally when American media show historical "Brave American soldiers storming the beaches of Normandy on D-Day."photos. About half the time the photos are actually showing Brits and Canadians. But that is another story.

    Let's just remember we were all Allies. I agree with vrDrew... historical commemorations are fine - are necessary even - but we need to keep in mind that it took the efforts of each and every Allied nation to win that war and that each country's contribution was important.
     
  12. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #12

    That's a big (but typical) mistake, given that the Brits and Canadians wore completely different helmets, carried different kit, and landed on different beaches.
     
  13. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    I've noticed many of more recent TV shows about WWII on the History Channel, and elsewhere - seem very sloppy about matching the image shown on screen with what the narrator is actually saying. Air combat in the Pacific is described showing gunnery camera footage of Messerschmits and FW190s being destroyed. Obvious pre-war footage of Hitler (in civilian clothes) shown over descriptions of events that took place in the third of fourth year of the war.

    Its strange, but I still believe the Gold-Standard when it comes to WWII documentaries is the (now more than 40 yr old) ITV production of The World At War. Laurence Olivier's narration is, by itself, worth watching the whole series.
     
  14. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    The History Channel is simply awful. I've seen Korean War footage in their so-called Vietnam documentaries.
     
  15. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #15
    Thanks for remind us of the what happened 70 years ago.

    No, really. I am here today because of what happened.
    Now, if the fact I am here is a good thing or not is a different matter, but I am here, and that counts!
     
  16. Ironduke Suspended

    Ironduke

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    #16
    Have you any Idea how many men the russians lost taking berlin?

    and its not US its Allies:rolleyes:
     
  17. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    To put it in context Russian (and Polish) deaths in the battle of Berlin are roughly comparable to American deaths in the Vietnam and Korean wars combined.
     
  18. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    Realistically the fight between the allies was a sideshow to the war that the russians went through.
     
  19. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #19
    Ike was smart to let Stalin take Berlin and take the 100,000 casualties that it cost them.
     
  20. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #20
    Fair comment and well said.

    That one is embedded behind the retinas of those who remember it and it casts a long shadow in myth and memory.

    Excellent series. First rate. Actually, I ordered it recently; Laurence Olivier's narration is excellent, the script (partly written by the outstanding Neal Ascherson) is outstanding, and the interviews and footage fascinating.

    This point needs to be made and reiterated again and again.

    Soviet casualties during WW2 were so great the state didn't dare release the full numbers - or dare to publish the results of the state census - until well over a decade later.
     
  21. caesarp macrumors 6502a

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    I said bulk of the casualties and put "glory" in quotes for a reason. And they were talking about the meeting between the U.S. And Russia not the allies and Russia. Relax Monty. It's not like you were there at sword or Juno or went for cover in the tube during the blitz.

    And that's allied expeditionary force. I know my WW2.
     
  22. Ironduke Suspended

    Ironduke

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    and neither where you patton, so stop acting all that.

    ----------

    more like 300,000 of which 81,000 died
     
  23. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

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    #23
    Polish ?

    AFAIK the polish forces only saw (major) action:
    - fall of 39 fighting of both the german and soviet invasions
    - in the 44 Warsaw uprising when they were left to die by the Red Army
    - as part of british forces
     
  24. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    Maybe I shouldn't believe Wikipedia about anything but it claims Polish communists fought in Berlin.
     
  25. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

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    In that context it's also true that German communist fought in Berlin (on the Soviet side).

    Or French, Austrian, Norwegian etc

    Doubt that they made up any real numbers.
     

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