$780B Stimulus Bill Reached by senate

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by macfan881, Feb 6, 2009.

  1. macfan881 macrumors 68020

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    #1
  2. mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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    #2
    OINK:

    $76.8 BILLION IN EDUCATION INVESTMENTS

    $39 BILLION FOR STATE FISCAL RELIEF TARGETED DIRECTLY FOR EDUCATION

    $13.9 BILLION FOR PELL GRANTS

    $13.5 BILLION FOR SPECIAL EDUCATION FUNDING — This would bring the federal government closer to the promised 40 percent of the national average per pupil expenditure for every child in special education. This will help relieve the increasing burden at the local level to cover the rising costs of special education, and allow districts the flexibility to retain support staff and teachers in the classrooms where they are so desperately needed.

    $10.4 BILLION FOR TITLE I– The additional investment in Title I is a critical investment towards children in poverty. As more and more children are classified as poor during this economic downturn, this substantial additional investment will help local school districts ensure that their academic needs are being met.

    $3 BILLION FOR JOB TRAINING

    $87 BILLION IN TEMPORARY AND TARGETED MEDICAID RELIEF TO STATES

    $4.7 BILLION FOR STATE AND LOCAL ENERGY EFFICIENCY BLOCK GRANTS

    $2.9 BILLION FOR WEATHERIZATION PROGRAMS

    $2 BILLION FOR ADVANCED BATTERY MANUFACTURING

    $500 MILLION FOR FIREFIGHTERS ASSISTANCE GRANTS

    $1.2 BILLION FOR NATIONAL SCIENCE FOUNDATION
     
  3. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #3
    and 1 million for a mr jonathan here.....lol

    seriously might as well make my day right
     
  4. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #4
    Why can't this go to a vote of the American people, let them decide what happens to 1 trillion dollars. A national referendum question, should the government spend 1 trillion dollars on a stimulus plan. Yes or No. And what should the money be spent on. Get the peoples opinion, don't get the fat cats in Washington decide.
     
  5. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #5
    Yeah, what a bunch of unworthy causes! Kids. Firefighters. Medical care. Who needs 'em?

    If you'd tried to argue that these things aren't job-creating, you'd have had a point. But pork? Wasteful spending? Come on.
     
  6. mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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    #6
    I partly agree with you. A better word choice would have been "HUH?" to express confusion as to how these spending items create jobs in the short term, which is what everyone seems to be saying is the most critical desired outcome of the bill. Whether many of these items are worthy in themselves and should be priorities for funding at this time or ever is an argument for another day and should be given more deliberation and debate than they have over the past few days.
     
  7. pdham macrumors member

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    #7
    I am sorry, but the view that these elements are pork epitomizes the short-sighted approach to economy health that will result in a failed long-term rebuilding.

    Education spending is absolutely necessary if we want to compete in the future high-tech, global economy. Look at the international educations ratings over the last 25 years and tell me if we are going down the right path.

    How is job training not an important part of economic stimulus?

    States are almost uniformly facing huge deficits. If some additional federal aid money is funneled towards states it means other necessary services won't have to be impacted.

    Energy efficiency and weatherization are actually rapidly expanding industries that employ highly skilled individuals in the fields of engineering and building construction. But, in many parts of the country there are few if any firms which the skills. Money to promote these programs is absolutely a job creation effort.

    Advanced battery manufacturing is one of the missing components in a national smart energy grid and will be critical if detroit wants to pursue hybrid vehicles without relying on foreign technology (right now all batteries for hybrids are manufactured in Japan).

    I am not sure what this money is for, but, if it goes to local municipalities it will lessen the burden most communities face in providing expected services without drastically increasing property taxes. The financial crises many municipalities are currently in could end up costing residents of those communities A LOT in increased user fees, property taxes and/or sales tax.

    See above comment on education
     
  8. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #8
    I don't know if any of this education spending will make it's way to universities, but it'd be needed. My state legislature (Arizona is dominated by Republicans. Both houses and our governor since Napolitano left for DHS) cut a huge chunk out of education funding, even though Arizona is already almost last in terms of funding education. They got rid of all-day-kindergarten, despite evidence that it leads to a better educational future for the kids involved (one Republican representative even compared it to "day-care"). The three major universities had to take a huge cut as well, which led to mandatory days off without pay for all staff here at ASU, the possible closure of one of our campuses (ASU is spread throughout Phoenix on four campuses), a potential insane hike in tuition, or 500 more job cuts (a lot of lecturers/non-tenured professors and staff were fired just last semester).

    Why are conservatives so opposed to education and public well-being? All of the "wasteful" projects brought up in this thread will be an immense help.
     
  9. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #9
    The idea to combine job creation programs with economic relief programs (such as job retraining and medical care funding) was a tactical one on the part of the Democrats who wrote this bill, and arguably, quite arguably, it was a mistake.

    On the positive side, perhaps next time (and I believe there will be a next time), this kind of bill will be more sharply targeted. Obama's a quick learner, and I'd bet he'll pressure Congress to focus more precisely on any subsequent legislation. Whether they'll actually do it is another story.

    1. Bailout where nobody knows where the money went.
    2. Stimulus bill of disputed benefit.
    3. Third time's the charm.
     
  10. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #10
    You are kidding right? How much debt is this country going to be in if we need to have 3 failed stimulus plans.
     
  11. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #11
    There, I changed that for you to reflect the reality that much of our current indebtedness is due to failed republican conservatism.

    There was a good article in the San Jose Mercury News last week about the California budget nightmare. Just like in the rest of the US, the red districts in California are net users of state funds while the blue districts are net contributors. By reducing state programs the legislators are shooting their own districts in the back. When will they every learn?
     
  12. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #12
    How do you pay for programs when there is no money for them? Everyone wants to spend other peoples money. Programs are nice but not when they put us in deeper debt.

    Obama was supposed to be about change. All I see is more government waste and a trillion dollar stimulus that will fail.
     
  13. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #13
    I guess a good plan would be a stimulus package that works!


    What's your plan? And don't give us that "let the market do its thing" crap, thats not a (good) plan.
     
  14. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #14
    We know that government can't control where the money will go, no matter what they say. This trillion dollars will get into the hands of the weasels and never get pumped into the economy. How do you police the money when they are already in the pockets of the lobbyist.

    A stimulus will never work, it is just a feel good by congress to say look we did something.

    How any times will we let Congress do this only to say hey where did all that money go.
     
  15. Mr. Giver '94 macrumors 68000

    Mr. Giver '94

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    #15
    Yeah this makes so much sense considering that our national debt is already 10.6 trillion. :eek: I just don't understand why they can't come up with something that actually makes a difference.


    Nancy Pelosi needs to go die in a hole. :mad:
     
  16. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #16
    This is Washington. They don't do things to make sense only inflate their ego.
     
  17. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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  18. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #18
    Thank god we can have mature discussions here:rolleyes:
     
  19. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #19
    Real mature. :rolleyes:
     
  20. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    Yes, let's go back to the way things were when the GOP ran the show. :rolleyes:
     
  21. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #21
    I don't see much on that list I would consider pork. It's about time we put more money in education, instead of less.
     
  22. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #22
    Exactly. Most districts in California will be handing out pink slips to teachers in March. The cuts are likely to be quite deep without a boost. So while it might not create a new job, it is arguably equally as important to save existing jobs as it is to create new ones. There are going to be a LOT of teachers, maintenance, and a few administrative folks out on the streets looking for work this fall if education isn't given assistance.

    And I'm not sure if people understand what "modernization" of schools means. That translates directly into jobs, because modernization projects will always involve construction. That's the kind of thing people demanding "stimulus NOW" should be championing. Small modernization projects that were given the green light could be hitting the streets for bidding in 6 months. And that's for projects that AREN'T "shovel ready", that's starting from scratch. Larger modernization projects could be ready in a year.

    And even the prospect of these projects starting up would benefit the economy as businesses start to staff up to meet the demands of new construction.
     
  23. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #23
    Updating school buildings is all well and good, but will the government keep funding for upkeep or just the initial building process. And what about schools that were rebuilt in the past 5-10 years, will they see money.
     
  24. robanga macrumors 68000

    robanga

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    #24
    the Government is really pretty good at raising money,

    really poor at spending it.
     
  25. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #25
    I'm not sure what you mean about continuing funding for upkeep? Once construction is over, there is no ongoing cost outside of regular maintenance. Schools have maintenance budgets for stuff like paint or a busted pipe. State funds are available (or used to be anyway -- up until December) in extreme hardship cases. Once a building is updated, it's not like it keeps getting updated every year.

    As for schools that were "re-built" in the past 5-10 years, no need to worry. Even schools that have seen significant new construction recently are sure to have more facilities that could use a facelift, and new schools often have unbuilt phases or are using portable classrooms because they couldn't afford permanent structures. That's fairly common in my experience.

    At least in California, I think you would be hard pressed to find a government-owned school facility that *doesn't* have significant unmet need in terms of modernization or expansion. It's just the nature of how schools are run here. There's never enough, there hasn't been enough for decades. They could almost all use some money.
     

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