8-year-old accidentally shoots mother at baseball game

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by eatrains, May 15, 2019.

  1. eatrains macrumors 6502

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    #1
    https://abcnews.go.com/US/year-accidentally-shoots-mother-baseball-game-police/story?id=63046104

    If only there had been a good 8-year-old with a gun!
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #2
    why not a 9 y/o??
    mom is going to live and the moron who left the gun there is going to jail.
     
  3. Plutonius macrumors 604

    Plutonius

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    #3
  4. einmusiker macrumors 68030

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  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #5
    wrong person sadly........
     
  6. Altis macrumors 68030

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    #6
    Exactly. Having kids think that guns are only toys (because they have toy guns) rather than teaching them to respond appropriately... probably not a good idea. Same thing with other dangerous objects or materials (such as not pretending their medication is candy).
     
  7. Tech198 macrumors G5

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    #7
    A loaded gun to an 8 year old sounds might suspicious...

    People never learn. Just because its ok in the hands of adults doesn't equally say the same about kids.

    And this incident isn't helping, because it will happen again, and again, and again.

    All i'm saying is think before you do things what the consequences may be... And that raises higher for a child.
     
  8. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 604

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #8
    I did laugh at the thread title even though it’s horrific. What kind of idiot keeps a gun unsecured in a vehicle and lets children have access to it? It’s a completely different world lol.
     
  9. bambooshots, May 16, 2019
    Last edited: May 16, 2019

    bambooshots macrumors 65816

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    #9
    I laughed.

    And I will counter with perhaps if the father had taught him proper gun safety and handling, he wouldn’t have picked it up thinking it was a toy.

    But that’s what a “no guns around my children” mentality will get you.
     
  10. sim667 macrumors 65816

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  11. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

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    #11
    Did the 76yr old guy bring his CCW to a baseball game, found out you can't carry in a ball park and decide to stash it in the jeep until after the game? The guy should spend the rest of his life in jail.
     
  12. VulchR macrumors 68020

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    #12
    Or the absence of trigger locks, or proper legislation for the safe transport of guns (which should be disassembled).
     
  13. pl1984 macrumors 68020

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    #13
    I am interested to hear from gun control advocates what "common sense" gun law they believe would have prevented this tragedy.
    --- Post Merged, May 16, 2019 ---
    Why? If it was his Jeep why would he expect someone else to go rifling through it? But that doesn't appear to be the case. It was a vintage WWII Jeep on display. My question is why was the gun present in a vehicle that was on display?
     
  14. Peterkro macrumors 68020

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    #14
    Because a law abiding responsible gun owner knowing it was just a tool left it lying about as you would any other tool like a spanner or suchlike.
     
  15. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

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    #15
    If it was his own jeep I would have said the mother should control her kid. But as you know, it was a WWII jeep on display.
     
  16. Mousse macrumors 68010

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    #16
    Leaving a loaded gun lying around is the act of a responsible gun owner? I'd hate to see how an irresponsible gun owner behaves.
    Speaking of tools. Spanners, I leave lying around. They are only dangerous if it drops on your foot. Nail guns, OTOH, never, ever--not even once would I leave one lying around loaded with nails and attached to the compressor. If I have to leave the nail gun in the work area, I would disconnect the air hose. I've heard hundreds of stories about nail gun accidents involving contractors, professionals. Hail, if a pro can shoot himself with a nail by getting a little careless, what chance would a home handyman like me have to avoid the same if I get careless? This is why I'm hyper paranoid with it comes to using and storage of nail guns. In the 10 years of using them, I've had zero accidents (knock on my mother-in-law's head).
     
  17. pl1984 macrumors 68020

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    #17
    So you feel that having done so means he should spend the rest of his life in jail?
    --- Post Merged, May 16, 2019 ---
    Which goes back to my previous question: Why was the gun in the Jeep? I would hazard a guess it was mistakenly left there.
     
  18. ActionableMango macrumors G3

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    #18
  19. hulugu macrumors 68000

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    #19
    That was @BoxerGT2.5 who said that the man "should spend the rest of his life in jail."

    It doesn't really matter. It's fundamentally negligent to leave a loaded gun just lying around unsecured. And, the charge, "reckless endangerment" is about right.

    Now, there are two larger issues at play:

    1. Some gun control advocates have pushed for regulations on the storage of firearms, requiring firearms be placed in gun-safes or other containers. In this case, such a regulation might have saved a lot of pain here. An ammo can with a padlock would have done a world of good here.

    2. Kids should have some feel for gun safety. But, 8-year-olds just don't have the judgement and lack impulse control, so hanging this on the kid, or on "gun safety" classes is foolish. The fundamental mistake was that a gun owner left a loaded gun in a place where a kid could access it. That's stupid and criminal.

    Part of gun ownership is taking on an enormous mantle of responsibility, and if you're not ready for making those adjustments, you cannot own a gun.
     
  20. pl1984 macrumors 68020

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    #20
    I know this however you responded to it so I inferred you were in agreement with him.

    I don't disagree. But that doesn't mean he should spend the rest of his life in jail for it (assuming one isn't 76 years old, as in this case, where a five year sentence could be a life sentence)

    I disagree. Or is it your position this loaded gun was intentionally left in the vehicle for someone to stumble across?

    Was anyone "hanging" it on the kid?

    Agreed! This was a big failure on the owner of the gun. But unless you're willing to assert leaving a loaded gun in the vehicle while it was on display was an intentional act I doubt any proposed law would have prevented this. Unfortunately accidents happen and this appears to be just that.
     
  21. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #21
    You're confused about the thread. I responded after you, ergo you could not have inferred I was in agreement with him. That was @Peterkro


    Conservatives have regularly pushed for sentencing minimums, and strict requirements often removing discretion from judges. If this dooms a gun owner to a life in jail, that's just a sad artifact of their policies.

    And, arguably we can't let elders get away with major crimes just because of their age.

    We're dealing with a theoretical, but if the gun was secured, it could not have been stumbled across.

    Thus, there should be a law that firearms are reasonably secured. Remember, this was a WWII-era Jeep on display, so it likely did not have doors, thus, it was not secure. Hence, the gun owner was negligent when he left his loaded weapon in the vehicle.

    Argument built around the idea that gun safety education is the solution is an attempt to blame the kid in some fashion (and the mother) rather than the negligence of the gun owner.

    Again, it was negligence. If he did it intentionally, his charges would be elevated. (And, if the mother dies, he still may reasonably face manslaughter charges.)
     
  22. pl1984 macrumors 68020

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    #22
    Yes I can because it's not unusual for someone to respond to a question directed at someone else to agree with the statement of that someone else. If you do not agree with that persons statement then say so. But to be clear: Do you or do you not think this should be a lifetime offense?

    I threw the age in there because even a five year sentence, which most would not consider "life" could be a lifetime sentence when the individual is 76 years old. It was not intended to say people over a certain age should not be held accountable nor does it say that their punishment should be any less.

    I agree. The owner of this gun was negligent. But unless you are asserting this was an intentional act then having a "secure your guns" law would not have been effective here. From what I've read this was an accident. Laws cannot prevent accidents.

    The only one I see mentioning anything remotely related to blaming the kid is you.

    Again: I agree! But, and you seem to be in agreement, this was an accident. Laws do not prevent accidents.
     
  23. VulchR macrumors 68020

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    #23
    Erm the post above yours. Trigger lock, requirement that transported guns be disassembled so they cannot be fired (let alone leaving a loaded gun unattended).
     
  24. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #24
    Generally, no.

    Well, if a 76-year-old man commits a serious crime, but we argue that any sentence is a life-sentence, we're making a mistake.

    Traffic laws cannot prevent accidents? Um no. Seatbelt laws have saved thousands of lives. It's likely that laws limiting cellphone usage while driving will save thousands more. Again, if the gun owner had stored his firearm in a reasonable way, everyone would have enjoyed the baseball game and gone home.

    Laws about consumer products regularly protect against accidents, so do laws about construction and manufacturing.

    I'm blaming the kid by saying that the kid is not responsible? Yeah, no.
     
  25. pl1984 macrumors 68020

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    #25
    How would such a law prevented this tragedy?
     

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138 May 15, 2019