89 Year Old Nazi Guard to be Deported

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by drewsof07, May 8, 2009.

  1. drewsof07 macrumors 68000

    drewsof07

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    #1
    Seems time doesn't heal all things.

    "A man wanted in Germany for Nazi war crimes has been ordered by US authorities to surrender to an immigration office for deportation."

    "In 1988 he was sentenced to death in Israel for crimes against humanity after Holocaust survivors identified him as the notorious "Ivan the Terrible", a guard at the Treblinka death camp."


    BBC: Nazi Suspect Ordered to Surrender

    Seems as though when it wasn't "cool" to be a Nazi anymore, he fled to the US as a "refugee" and failed to disclose his past to the Dept of Immigration.
     
  2. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #2
    This man has been hounded for decades. I will not comment on the justification, but I ask you, at what point is enough enough??
     
  3. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #3
    I am not sure what to think after reading the linked BBC article.

    He was originally presumed to be a notorious Nazi guard by the Israelis, but then they changed their minds and dropped their charges.

    He himself says he was a POW - so it seems that he probably was at the Nazi camp in question in some way, correct?

    Now the German's are pursuing an accessory charge - in what way? If he was a POW, can he be held liable for his actions? Was he not a POW? Is he this guard after all? Why are the Israelis not interested again?

    This all seems so confusing. Is it really justice to deport an 89 year-old man under these circumstances?
     
  4. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #4
    A fairly pointless question in the absence of comment on the justification, don't you think?
     
  5. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #5
    If he can produce memoranda authorizing any behavior most people would call illegal, is it still illegal? I mean, as has been proffered as a justification in another thread, if what he did was illegal, wouldn't he be in jail already?
     
  6. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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  7. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #7
    Many have professed to "only following orders".

    Shall we speak to the criminal activity by the U.S. in Vietnam??
     
  8. drewsof07 thread starter macrumors 68000

    drewsof07

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    #8
    I kind of see your point, but still. This man broke international law. And the fact he is wanted by more than one country for humanity crimes should not be absolved simply because he's old.

    Just my opinion on this. And I have found several other articles that document he has been bound for deportation but has appealed. People have been deported for less severe crimes I'm sure.

    My favorite quote from Thank You For Smoking:
    "What makes America the best country in the world? Our endless appeals system." :rolleyes:
     
  9. TSE macrumors 68030

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    #9
    The guy is in trauma, not in good health, and probably going to die in a year or two. It would be pointless, just let the guy die peacefully.
     
  10. benthewraith macrumors 68040

    benthewraith

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    #10
    I've read multiple positions about this whole case.

    I really have no idea where I stand in this whole affair.
     
  11. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #11
    But the lawyers would lose millions of dollars in billable hours to seek the same end in a couple years.

    If they simply let him be, like law schools would try the case over and over for decades until they came to a satisfactory conclusion.

    That only means another published article for some professors instead of allowing high profile lawyers to count coup -- and buy a new Bentley.
     
  12. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #12
    Careful, that smacks of being humane. Not all agree with that position.
     
  13. TSE macrumors 68030

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    #13
    What the hell are you going to do to someone that can't even move by himself in a wheelchair?
     
  14. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #14
    Be less than sub-human, and keep persecuting him.
     
  15. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #15
    i hope they dont let him die in peace, he deserves to die a miserable death like the 29,000 people he's responsible for killing. i dont care how old he is, and i cant wait for them to remove this scum off american soil so the german legal system can get their hands on him.
     
  16. TSE macrumors 68030

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    #16
    You do realize that towards the middle of the war the Nazis assigned people jobs to work as guards or other various workers in concentration camps and if they refused, there was a huge chance they would be thrown in the camps themselves, right?
     
  17. drewsof07 thread starter macrumors 68000

    drewsof07

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    #17
    Link?

    And it doesn't seem logical for him to allegedly become "Ivan the Terrible" without enacting some free will while torturing, or otherwise harming captured prisoners "against" his will.
     
  18. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #18
    From my understanding of the linked article - it seems far from clear that he is this "Ivan". Israel seems to have decided he is not, and Germany's position does not specify that their charges are related to him being this particular person.

    He could very well have been a foreign-national forced to work in Treblinka. It does not seem clear to me what the stakes of coercion might have been, or in what capacity he was used at the prison. Germany's "accessory" charge could, imo, be leveled at any staff of the prison - though likely not higher supervisory staff who would most likely be given a more direct charge (eg: murder, genocide etc).

    Without knowing more about this man's circumstances (then, not now) - I wonder if threat of death is a defense for abhorrent actions.

    I seem to remember that certain Jewish prisoners were favored/spared by the Nazis in return for their assistance with the larger population - were they prosecuted? Where is the line drawn exactly?

    From what I can currently gather, I am not sure this guy's crimes justify current actions against him, considering his current state.
     
  19. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #19
    I suppose that the fact that he has not been found guilty of anything does not enter into your finely-tuned moral and legal position, does it?
     
  20. northy124 macrumors 68020

    northy124

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    #20
    I have no link but from the endless amounts of reading on WW2 and the Holocaust it is correct (if I am remember correctly :) ), they were also threatened with being sent to the Eastern Front which to many was worse than death.

    On topic, I would just leave him be now, he has 1 or 2 years tops left in his life. Let him answer to god.
     
  21. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #21
    He was just following orders. Just like the CIA did when they tortured; and we're not going to prosecute them, right?
     
  22. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #22
    You mean the guy that is on video walking around on his own too?
     
  23. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #23
    Ah, he was probably "just following orders". Last I heard, that passes as a reasonable and legal defense these days.
     
  24. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #24
    If they have proof and can link him to the 29,000 deaths I don't see a problem with justice finally being served.
     
  25. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #25
    If the Israelis couldn't do it, it can't be done.
     

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